Formula Mazda on the fence

[no-cones]

Let me begin by saying that at my age I doubt I could be nationally competitive. Also for the past 7 years I have been running a solo vee and want something a little faster and with better handling. So here is my question. How good or bad would a Formula Mazda be for autocross?
Thanks in advance

[J Leonard]

Maybe not a lot of torque off the start line ? Need lower ring and pinion ratio to run taller gear ratios? Note the question marks. Mel what do you think?

[Stan Clayton]

So here is my question. How good or bad would a Formula Mazda be for autocross?

They're pretty heavy for autocross, where they run in B-Mod at 1285 lbs, right? An older DSR with modern motorcycle power (e.g., Amac, Cheetah, LeGrand, Fox, Decker, etc.) will have as much or more power and has to weigh only 1020 lbs, not to mention much better handling. They're light-years ahead of an FM.

[no-cones]

Looking at rules,they must weigh 1180 lbs with out driver.

[Stan Clayton]

Here is a screen grab from the 2019 Solo Rules for B-Mod. FM uses the 13B Rotary, not the 12A, hence my take that it must weigh 1285 WITH driver. Am I missing something?

[no-cones]

You are correct

[no-cones]

You are correct . I miss read the rules.

[Stan Clayton]

No problem. But seriously, look for an older DSR...250 lbs lighter, same power, and better suspension and aero.

[no-cones]

I have been looking but they seem to be few and far between.

[Stan Clayton]

https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/dsrf...ar-t11606.html

[lowside67]

While both are a “square peg for a round hole” in B Mod, I would rather try my luck with a FC over an FM. Lower minimum weight and more torque lower in the rev range are both compelling improvements for autocross in my mind.

-Mark

[ChristopherBernard]

I'd second Stan's suggestion. In addition ,the shorter wheelbase of the older DSR will help you get around the tight bits. Look at full lock steering angle too. Always good to be able to recover from a mistake. Road course cars are often quite limited in that dept.

Chris

[no-cones]

Let me begin by thanking everyone for their input. I am going to reconsider my choices but have one last question. I went back and reread both the GCRs and the Solo rules. In the GCRs the weight of the Formula Continental must be 1200 lbs. However, when I read the Solo rules it stated the weight of the Formula 2000, and the Formula Continental must be 1090 lbs with the driver. Did I misread? Which would be the correct weight?
Thanks again

[TedV]

If it is written in the autocross rules it overrides the GCR for autocross competition

[lowside67]

That is correct - for autocross, the solo rules overrule the GCR in any area where there is a conflict. There are also significantly more aero allowances for an FC competing in B-Mod in autocross (ie the aero allowances are essentially FA allowances) and wheel/tires are unrestricted. I would rather have a DSR than an FC for sure, but I continue to believe that an FC would be a far more competitive option out of the box than an FM for B-Mod.

-Mark

[no-cones]

Just wanted to thank everyone for your comments and suggestions. I am going to take a few months to weigh all my options but am pretty sure I will go with the Formula Continental. I know it will not be the fastest car in the class but neither am I. Just looking at the math. under the solo rules it will only have to weigh 1090 lbs with me in it and coupled with the typical 140 hp motor it should be a blast to drive. It also gives me the options of doing track events (non SCCA) or a drivers school.by leaving everything GCR legal
Or put wider wheels and tires on for solo.
My only concern is the LD200 trans axle and how well the suspension pick up points would hold up with wider, sticky tires and the back and forth g forces associated with autocross. I will be calling Taylor Racing for their advice.
This is not an easy decision because I really though a solo vee would be much more competitive. But doing a reality check I realize the limitations are too great.
Thank you again.

[Stan Clayton]

This is not an easy decision because I really though a solo vee would be much more competitive. But doing a reality check I realize the limitations are too great.
Thank you again.

If you are concerned about being competitive, you need to take a look at last year's Solo National B-Mod results. The first 10 finishers were ALL ex-DSRs. Probably ALL 16 cars were ex-DSR, I am just not familiar with the back marker cars. Not a single FC showed up, much less was competitive.

[lowside67]

My only concern is the LD200 trans axle and how well the suspension pick up points would hold up with wider, sticky tires and the back and forth g forces associated with autocross. I will be calling Taylor Racing for their advice.

If you really want to be competitive - you want a Formula Ford for C-Mod. I spent last season in the class, finishing 3rd at nationals, and had a great time.

With respect to your comment on G forces - the G load and overall wear put on a car at autocross is a fraction of road racing and I believe you could autocross a car for your lifetime and not have any ill effects related to autocrossing it and putting larger wheels and tires on. We run the LD200 in the Formula Ford and with multiple drivers doing Prosolos, Hillclimbs, and Autocross have noticed no need for anything other than routine maintenance.

In general, the cars are very robust vs what is needed for autocross - they should be very reliable.

-Mark

[lowside67]

If you are concerned about being competitive, you need to take a look at last year's Solo National B-Mod results. The first 10 finishers were ALL ex-DSRs. Probably ALL 16 cars were ex-DSR, I am just not familiar with the back marker cars. Not a single FC showed up, much less was competitive.

While you are absolutely right that B Mod is dominated by ex-DSRs, the rules were changed in 2017 that significantly shift the aero advantage to a formula car based chassis. The challenge is that there are no off the shelf cars that are bike powered and have the right physical size to compete - it would take something custom. You and I have spoken on the phone about a bespoke F1000 car based on the WF1 chassis but with formula bodywork - to me, this is the winning package for the class, but nobody has spent the money to try it out.

-Mark

[JHerscher]

No autocrosser here, but a 18 year FC driver. If you’re seriously looking at FC, I would think the shorter wheelbase of the early to mid 90s Van Diemen chassis would be better than later VD models. My 94 was a joy on the short twisty stuff. Sometimes I miss it!

John
(RF01)

[Stan Clayton]

While you are absolutely right that B Mod is dominated by ex-DSRs, the rules were changed in 2017 that significantly shift the aero advantage to a formula car based chassis. The challenge is that there are no off the shelf cars that are bike powered and have the right physical size to compete - it would take something custom. You and I have spoken on the phone about a bespoke F1000 car based on the WF1 chassis but with formula bodywork - to me, this is the winning package for the class, but nobody has spent the money to try it out.

-Mark

Good to hear from you again, Mark! I was not aware the B Mod rules were changed in 2017, but the results I posted above are from 2018, so it doesn't appear the rules changes have displaced the ex-DSRs from the top of the heap. At least not yet. And while I agree that a bespoke chassis with max aero and width at min weight will ultimately topple the ex-DSRs, there isn't an FC, B-Mod ready or not, that will do so. In the immortal words of Scotty, "Ya canno cheat the lawz o'physics, Cap't!