We aren't helping our own cause...

[Matt Clark]

http://www.autoblog.com/2013/11/22/h...f1-tokyo-2013/

Read this article, then read thru the comments. Look for the comment by "You missed it". We finally get some mention on a major motorhead page, and something like that is what people get tossed in their lap immediately.

I know there are several threads floating about costs & the like, but holy hell, can we please NOT scare potential new racers like this? Yea, the figures might be true for a Runoffs contender, but "$700 for a set of tires (three or four times per season) or $2000 - $4000 for a rebuild" is so far off base for almost all normal regional guys it's not even funny. I've run reasonably competitive regionally on 2 year old tires & I know my last Autowerks rebuild was only $1600 with new valve parts & oiling system. Far cry from what is being sold there.

I know what the intent of that letter/article is, but people are going to focus on those numbers & run the other way. Are we even trying to help ourselves like this? If so, we're doomed.

/rant

[Steve Davis]

I'll bet that the origin of that post is in the states .. and I'll bet I can pin it to one of 2 or 3 people.
"despite efforts by visionary people" ...

It's also quite interesting that, although 22 yo drivers can't pony up $700 for tires and $3000 for a rebuild, they CAN, somehow, find themselves in FE, FC, DSR, etc, etc. - I guess those are just CHEAPER classes to run in ... ??

Steve, FV80

[formulasuper]

I'll bet that the origin of that post is in the states .. and I'll bet I can pin it to one of 2 or 3 people.
"despite efforts by visionary people" ...

It's also quite interesting that, although 22 yo drivers can't pony up $700 for tires and $3000 for a rebuild, they CAN, somehow, find themselves in FE, FC, DSR, etc, etc. - I guess those are just CHEAPER classes to run in ... ??

Steve, FV80

Yes Steve, and everyone knows you can't build a competitive car in your home garage, right?

[Tiago Santos]

I agree that the post is short sighted and a bit silly. I didn't see any FV references anywhere on that page..? Weird. It's strange that some one would go on an unrelated, somewhat public forum and say that.

I have to say though, Steve, that kids running FE/FC/FF is part of the problem - or rather a symptom. Vees are too expensive for the vaaaast majority of younger kids, even those who are into auto-x, track days, drifting, etc. But for the few that can afford any racing at all, FV isn't much cheaper to run than a few of the faster classes, so there isn't much of a reason to do it anymore. Almost no one ever recommends FV as a driver development class anymore, when Fords are only slightly more expensive but prepare you much better as a driver (more setup options, more HP, etc..)

Anyway, I didn't want this to turn into yet another discussion about the class itself, so again - I completely agree that the post on that news article was unnecessary and counter productive.

[Matt Clark]

3rd line of the 2nd paragraph references FV, in a way that *could* drive people who see & like that Honda to looking into FV.

I was guessing, since they quoted the FV page, that they were at least familiar with FV... but it sure does seem like a dig at VW-powered formula cars in general, because even FST could be lumped in there.

[Mark Filip]

I wounder if the person that posted that is on here or even in the class?

Thanks for sharing Matt

[Jim Nash]

fvracer27, If you follow the link the guy quotes from you can see who wrote the original comments.

Jim

[Hardingfv32]

If this kid is coming from a competitve racing situation and wants to go into a competitive FV situation, then he is looking a Majors program in most of the US. So then his tire costs are valid. The rebuild maybe high, but he goes not know the competitive level of the engine and could be expecting upgrades with the rebuild.

Assuming he has made the outlay for the car, he is looking at per event costs of:

$500-600 entry fees
$500-800 travel expense
$400 tires (half set)
$300-400 engine and car ammoritzation
$200-300 accident savings plan

Close to $2000 per event, with at least four Major events for someone who wants to be competitive. Then there is the Runoffs.....

Brian

[Mark Filip]

fvracer27, If you follow the link the guy quotes from you can see who wrote the original comments.

Jim

Got it thanks

[veefan]

I read this this and just have to laugh. Whoever this guy is clear he knows about the class and might want to go racing. Did he post both correct and some possibly misleading information, yes. But rather than have an adult, mature discussion he’s called a “Tool” by someone posting a comment on that article. Great way to inspire a 22 year old that FV racers are a great class of people/racers.

[veefan]

Rather then chit-chat on this forum behind the 22 years olds back....
I just posted the comment below.

Your costs are on the high side for FV racing but not that far off if your a serious racer. If you're really interested in getting into FV racing drop me an e-mail and I'll point you in the right direction to get on track for a lot less.
jjjjjjjes@aol.com

[problemchild]

I expect that the poster is an experienced FV racer who just got frustrated with the class and moved on with life. If it is who I think it is, his racing effort (about 15 years ago) was almost identical to Matt's today. Like Matt, he was very passionate about the class and the sport. How ironic would that be?

[Matt Clark]

I also don't think it's a 22 year old kid posting that.... he just copied from somewhere else, but I don't have any clue who it would be.

It doesn't sound like he's coming from a competitive situation from his tone. If he was familiar with FV, he could still argue the low-cost selling point, but he made it sound like it's plain unaffordable for anyone. Seems almost spiteful.

Just to be clear, I wasn't posting this to slam anyone. More of a reminder/plead to not shoot ourselves in the foot when given a chance to. I normally only pipe up when I have a question or something possibly meaningful to contribute. This just seems like the last things we want to see. Even if I do get frustrated & mad at the class in the future, hopefully I don't get to the point I post misleading info on random webpages when I get older.

[Pinky096]

The guy talks about how Vees have become a sport for the well-to-do because of the costs. Last time I checked Spec Miata(which gets attetion for being "cheap, close, racing") is damn expensive. Thats why I got a Formula Vee(Which is for sale ) it was the most inexpensive way to go racing today. I was able to do 8 races on one set of tires and I probably could have done one or two more with that set. Racing is expensive, but it isnt unatainable for young guys like me. I bought my car from working as a bag boy at Publix at 15.

[Matt King]

The last set of new tires I bought for my Vee cost about $800 mounted, and the three times I had my engine rebuilt were all over $2000. Maybe I need a different engine builder or better luck, but the person who quoted racing 8 weekends on one set of tires is full of **** if he's running Hoosiers.

[Bill Bonow]

If you follow the link the guy quotes from you can see who wrote the original comments.

http://formulaveeracing.org/Association.html

I'll save you some time: Anna De Cheke Qualls

[Matt King]

Is that her in your avatar photo?

[gbmetcalf]

Just thought it was funny that someone called the poster a TOOL.

G.

[racerdad2]

Y'all are too funny

[Tiago Santos]

Still have no clue who the original poster was (thanks for clarifying that he was quoting the FV association letter/rant), but I'm 82% sure I know who the "tool" reply came from.

I don't know if we're a really tight knit community, or if the world is just a really small place!

[veefan]

Ditto no response to my post. No guys no glory. Probably just another bitter guy who had a bad FV experience...

Hey Bill LOV your avatar photo!

[sracing]

Much ado about nothing... The poster had some exaggerated numbers in the wrong categories, but he was right over all. (For ANY class). If you aren't well above average in disposable income, wheel to wheel racing isn't for you. Join a bowling league or golf.

If you are looking to go pro, FV/FST, etc. is NOT the starting place. If you want to win the Run-Offs, it WILL cost you $10,000+ a year up to anything you want to spend.
(and that assumes the capital cost of the car/trailer was free.)

(Don't forget, travel, lodging, maintenance, meals, fuel, etc.)

If you just want to have some fun wheel to wheel 2 or 3 times a year you can do it for maybe $5000+. (Including Vintage) (again not counting the car, trailers, damage etc.)

That post is certainly not going to scare off anyone who can afford to race in any case.

E.G. Some old racer gives a middle income kid a running tech ready car for FREE.... That kid will need to spend well over $3000-$4000 to get required safety equipment, SCCA school(s), etc.) to turn his first wheel to wheel race. His actual racing will get much higher, IF he gets that far. I have seen THAT EXACT thing happen several times.

The COST of racing FV/FST is NOT the issue. It is EXPOSURE. No one knows what a FV is. (and if you describe one, you send him away anyways.. )

If that post scares someone off FV or FST, it is probably a good thing. They can't afford racing anyways.