custom laminova heat exchanger

[Rick Kirchner]

I've been re-thinking my oil cooling, and the packaging is kinda tight.

One area ripe for exploitation is the crossover pipe between the left and right radiators. If I was able to mount a Laminova in there I'd get a two-fer.

However, from a packaging standpoint, the oil would have to enter and exit from the left corner, instead of going in and out through the middle of the housing like in their standard products. There would probably need to be some kind of "fence" to cause the oil to go all the way to the other end and back, kind of like a double-pass. Probably also need to raise it with some custom ends to clear the fuel outlet and move it as close to the firewall as possible.

Any ideas? Seen anything similar? I've written BAT twice and get no reply.

[DaveW]

C&R made mine (custom configuration much different from what you want) back in 2008 when I switched to Zetec power. They have changed a lot since then, but that might be an option.

https://www.pwrna.com/history-of-cr?...QYtOb6iUk5jGt6

[Rick Kirchner]

Thought about those guys. I'm going to have to put the engine back in and create an "envelope" to design into.

[Rick Iverson]

Rick:

The heat barrier on the aft fuel cell bulkhead is what. I assumed the gold heat reflective film was inadequate.

PM me on the Laminova heat exchanger, I have an idea. But I have a family leaving for MN tomorrow, quite busy. Tomorrow

I've been re-thinking my oil cooling, and the packaging is kinda tight.

One area ripe for exploitation is the crossover pipe between the left and right radiators. If I was able to mount a Laminova in there I'd get a two-fer.

However, from a packaging standpoint, the oil would have to enter and exit from the left corner, instead of going in and out through the middle of the housing like in their standard products. There would probably need to be some kind of "fence" to cause the oil to go all the way to the other end and back, kind of like a double-pass. Probably also need to raise it with some custom ends to clear the fuel outlet and move it as close to the firewall as possible.

Any ideas? Seen anything similar? I've written BAT twice and get no reply.

[Joules5]

Try Primus Racing Parts in SC, they have been very responsive on other parts for me.

https://www.primusracingparts.com/La...340.html?gQT=1

[mboian90]

I made this housing few years ago for my Honda powered FF. In the second picture the original housing is on the left and new one on the right. You can see on the new one where the top passage is blocked making it a 2 pass (U shape flow in and out of the top). It actually worked too good and I had to drill a small bypass hole in the "wall" to get oil temps back up.

If you want, I can try to get a picture of it in the car tonight but it is hard to see with the car assembled.

Edit: I didnt explicitly state this originally, the exchanger is located in the crossover tube in front of the engine.

Matt Boian

[Rick Kirchner]

You got that much performance from an exchanger that small? if so, that opens up a lot of packaging options.

If you could, PM me, I have questions....

[mboian90]

Hi Rick,

Reminder I have a 1.5L with a restrictor plate and not a fire breathing 2.0L, cooling requirements are probably less. Arguable if I needed the cooler in the first place. Either way, here is some data I quickly put together for your pondering...

These are average temperature over a lap from various events. I didnt filter out any out laps/warm up laps. The oil temperature is also the tank so it is more reflective of what is feeding the engine and not what is coming out. The outlet temp sensor has issues and makes the data really noisy.

There are 4 sessions in the "After Bypass" data set, one of which was a session I ran with radiators that had thinner cores (which didnt work well). Thats the blue dots way out to the right which gives a better comparison to the orange dots when the car was running hot (also multiple sessions). I added the lines manually for reference of the "roof" of the data sets, I'm sure their location could be argued.

If you want to discuss more let me know.

Matt Boian

[Gary_T]

Very ingenious/cool setup Matt. I'm having trouble visualizing the flows though - I'm thinking there must be one more bit not pictured yet - an internal coolant 'pipe' with cooling fins(OD sized to the big hole in the housing), perhaps?

If you had a couple more pics, I know I'd appreciate it!

Gary

[10rmotor]

Very ingenious/cool setup Matt. I'm having trouble visualizing the flows though - I'm thinking there must be one more bit not pictured yet - an internal coolant 'pipe' with cooling fins(OD sized to the big hole in the housing), perhaps?

If you had a couple more pics, I know I'd appreciate it!

Gary

Gary, there is another part not shown. Its the water pipe insert that goes inside the cavity carved out in the square/rectangular aluminum block. If I remember correctly, it has some O-rings that seal it to the block and end hose barb fittings. Since the view is on an end (where the water would flow in/out) you can't see the threaded ports for the oil in/out fittings. HTH.

Matt, what are the general dimensions you used, and what size hole is bored for the fin tube to fit inside the block?

Thanks!

[mboian90]

Sorry, I should have mentioned that everything but the housing were the parts from a laminova C43-90 exchanger. I bought it to install and then had packaging issues. Link to their catalog is below. I believe you can click on the A43-90P on page 7 and it will give you a drawing with a section view and exploded parts diagram.

The new housing is dimensionally the same as the original except the width at the top and bottom (can be seen in the end view picture above). I had to clock the oil inlet and outlet connections "vertical" to fit everything on one side so I needed the extra width for the fasteners. That will hopefully make sense when looking at the drawing. The raw material I bought was a piece of 2"x3" bar stock. I will measure the original housing tonight to get the final length and bore.

https://irp.cdn-website.com/e112be6e...laminova24.pdf

Matt Boian

[Gary_T]

Thanks folks, that clears it up for me.

[10rmotor]

Matt, thanks for the link to the laminova site. I was always of the opinion that the in and out in the middle version wasn't a very efficient design and so I favored the now discontinued setrab heat exchangers. I have collected quite a few of them for emergencies! After looking at the site it appears that I was right as they have other configurations similar to the setrab configuration with oil in and out on opposite sides and ends that they say are more efficient than the "original" design. Good to see I have some options for packaging for new builds and installations!

[mboian90]

Matt, thanks for the link to the laminova site. I was always of the opinion that the in and out in the middle version wasn't a very efficient design...

Yes it never seemed to me that the 180mm and larger core size would distribute the oil well enough with the standard port configuration. They are popular though so they obviously work good enough to keep an engine running! I have a late model VD zetec project I have been working on for the past year and havent made up my mind if I will make another custom housing or not. It was easy for the FF because anything was an improvement over no cooler, very little risk.

I did measure the original housing and the length was 3.155" and the bore was 1.701". Knowing myself, I probably landed pretty tight to those dimensions.

Matt Boian

[Rick Kirchner]

I'm going to have to model it and 3d print one to get an idea of the fit.

[10rmotor]

I did measure the original housing and the length was 3.155" and the bore was 1.701". Knowing myself, I probably landed pretty tight to those dimensions.

Matt Boian

How did you bore a hole that size and depth? I suppose you could do a boring head on a mill and bore half way plus a little, and then flip it over and do the remainder from the other end?

[mboian90]

How did you bore a hole that size and depth? I suppose you could do a boring head on a mill and bore half way plus a little, and then flip it over and do the remainder from the other end?

Nailed it! If you look close in the picture you can see the ring where the holes meet. I tried to bore it from one side but my only boring head only takes 5/16" bars (L/D = 10). I fought the chatter for a while before I gave up and went after it from both directions.

[Rick Kirchner]

I modeled one up and will post pics of the model and how I fit it onto the car later.

Question, for those of you that use these types of heat exchangers, how do you regulate oil temp on cold days? Block off the radiator more? Seems like there might be a careful balancing game that has to be played there.

[mboian90]

I modeled one up and will post pics of the model and how I fit it onto the car later.

Question, for those of you that use these types of heat exchangers, how do you regulate oil temp on cold days? Block off the radiator more? Seems like there might be a careful balancing game that has to be played there.

Rick,

I use a thermostat on my car but also tape over the rad inlet ducts when needed. The grouping of dots towards the left end of the blue line in my graph was a few weeks ago when it was 36F at the track; tape was used. That was not common weather for Texas.

Matt

[Rick Kirchner]

Rick,

I use a thermostat on my car but also tape over the rad inlet ducts when needed. The grouping of dots towards the left end of the blue line in my graph was a few weeks ago when it was 36F at the track; tape was used. That was not common weather for Texas.

Matt

in the spring and fall at willow springs the morning runs usually start off in the low 40s. Once at an October race at Buttonwillow it was so cold the thing tried to start backwards!

I was just looking at a variety of oil thermostats and i began to think that if I was making a custom machined housing I could buy an oil thermostat, copy the internal features, and add them to the heat exchanger.

[Rick Kirchner]

Did some modeling did some printing. First pic is the standard Laminova configuration. That's not going to work.

Second pic is a housing I designed similar to Matts using the longer heat exchanger core length, but I carved a lot out of it to save weight. Likely too long to work, getting the angles right and welding up the water tube would be tricky. It did show me there's also no way to fit it in as a crossover tube - not enough clearance with all the belt drives.

Next few screen shots from Fusion showing how I made the internal passages work.

Last pic is similar to Matts. Should work easily, may have to weld the long water tube to the end housing.

Matt - how did you do the sealing for this? I can see an o-ring for the water being easy, but sealing up the oil passages seems difficult.

[Rick Iverson]

However, from a packaging standpoint, the oil would have to enter and exit from the left corner, instead of going in and out through the middle of the housing like in their standard products.

Rick, one of these on the top and bottom and pointing to the left might be the trick. Thoughts?

[Rick Kirchner]

did some more modeling today. first up is their large-core cooler. Fits pretty well, but needs a 90 water fitting - don't believe they offer that in this size. Concerned it would over-cool the oil.

Second pic is another custom housing for their small core, I think that's the one I'll be going for. All I need to make it work is a longer hose on the radiator. Might even be able to get away with straight water fittings and just continue to use my current pipes.