Navigating the Future: Majors Participation

[RideMore]

$22K not bad. If you don't mind can you share what the top 5 spend items were and the amount for the year?

Three items account for 80% -

1. Tires = 8 sets = about $9K
2. Entries = about $7K
3. Brake pads = about $2K
4. Tow gas = about $1K (we happen to live seven miles from Blackhawk, which is about 6 races per year for us)
5. Fuel for the crew (family) = about $1K

That's about 20K of the 22K. The rest is wear parts like axle CV bearings and stuff. A couple gear sets to dial in tracks or replace pitting sets (Hewland Classic in England is by far the cheapest even with shipping, especially if your buddy needs something as well). 1 quart of brake fluid per year ($70). Oil and race gas is not to bad since we just use 10 - 12 gallons of 91 street gas per weekend ($650 - Wisconsin is a lot cheaper than Illinois due to fuel taxes).

[RideMore]

I have a simple question. Why would anyone beg and plead to be accepted in a club that is clearly not interested in having them when there are organizations who will actually cater to them??

FF and FC will not die with out SCCA. Clearly both are doing well and very healthy with other organizations. Instead of beating the dead SCCA horse go enjoy racing with a club that actually wants you there

No need to start a new club. That would just make for more fractions. Support those who support your class!! Plenty of very healthy options outside the SCCA

Most people with the talent and budget who want to participate in the runoff’s would fit right in at FRP. For older cars vintage is also very healthy. Throw in the various regional groups and all have an existing place to play

There is no chance of open wheel taking over SCCA.. hell if you can’t even get enough guys to keep the class alive how do you think you can take over SCCA??

Beating the dead horse will kill open wheel classes way before they die off because no longer wanted in SCCA

Len, I'm sympathetic to what your saying, but don't completely agree:

1. Bob Wright currently does a nice job with FRP for example - but what happens when he retires? The next owner may do more, or less. Look what happened to the Pro Formula Atlantic and S2000 series when Vickie O'Connor retired. If your not not familiar with that scenario - it proves the point. Same has happened in Canada this past 13 months in F1600 and Atlantic (sounds like they are pulling out of that death spiral with the previous owner taking the series back. BTW - these folks and drivers are super fun to race with, we have done a couple with them). Plus FRP is a long drive for us and a lot of other people - not enough vacation time to make it happen.
2. Vintage: we don't qualify for vintage, and we enjoy running a more modern engine.
3. Who else is there to run with in the mid-west?
4. All we need is:
a. To talk as a class and make sure the rules are such that people want to run their cars vs store them, and bring young guys into the fold.
b. 5 or 6 board members who like formula cars - and no one wants to be on the board so it's easy to win a spot. Most of the current board members are autocross folks. Nothing against them and the world needs autocross, but, when someone at national makes a suggestion to them about wheel to wheel, they don't know if its a good one or a bad one so tend to go along to get along.

Lets not beg and plead, lets take control of our destiny. It's not hard (see 4 a and b above)

[RideMore]

Team, per encouragement here -

Set up a Zoom call where we can all meet to discuss how to improve small formula participation. At he moment its an open brainstorming. We'll figure it out as we go. Starts tomorrow night and weekly for 20 weeks. We can extend it to our hearts content.

Thursdays 9pm eastern, all small formula classes welcome.

Join Zoom Meeting
https://us05web.zoom.us/j/82013141123?pwd=6fYy6kZCrpFsUTp9IyE2YweV8a3HBw.1


Meeting ID: 820 1314 1123
Passcode: G5G7wm

[RideMore]

Team, per the encouragement here -

I just created a Facebook group called "Formula F USA" in hopes of finding drivers/car owners that are not on Apex Speed.

I am not a Facebook person, or a social media guy, but I feel compelled to do what I can even if its clumsy. Any advice and or help would be very appreciated.

I have no idea if Facebook is "the" place, but its "A" place to find and connect people. Please tell me what more I can do, and how to do it if you know.

I created two different views of the 2025 Majors schedule for small formula - attached here. One by conference the other by date. There are 31 events total. To get the 5.0 we need to stay Runoffs eligible it means 155 total entries per year, per class. I think that not enough to stay HST relevant, bit its the Runoffs rules.

2025 SCCA Majors - by date.pdf2025 SCCA Majors - by Conferance.pdf

[BeerBudgetRacing]

Team, per encouragement here -

Set up a Zoom call where we can all meet to discuss how to improve small formula participation. At he moment its an open brainstorming. We'll figure it out as we go. Starts tomorrow night and weekly for 20 weeks. We can extend it to our hearts content.

Join Zoom Meeting
https://us05web.zoom.us/j/82013141123?pwd=6fYy6kZCrpFsUTp9IyE2YweV8a3HBw.1


Meeting ID: 820 1314 1123
Passcode: G5G7wm

Are you targeting just FF ? Just midwest? What time/zone?

[RideMore]

Are you targeting just FF ? Just midwest? What time/zone?

Sorry, just edited the post to note Thursdays at 9pm eastern. Open for the whole country and all small formula. We decide to do separt class calls, but lets start with everyone and see how it goes.

[BeerBudgetRacing]

Sorry, just edited the post to note Thursdays at 9pm eastern. Open for the whole country and all small formula. We decide to do separt class calls, but lets start with everyone and see how it goes.

Please make a recording and make it available!

[RideMore]

Team, per encouragement here -

Set up a Zoom call where we can all meet to discuss how to improve small formula participation. At he moment its an open brainstorming. We'll figure it out as we go. Starts tomorrow night and weekly for 20 weeks. We can extend it to our hearts content.

Thursdays 9pm eastern, all small formula classes welcome.

Join Zoom Meeting
https://us05web.zoom.us/j/82013141123?pwd=6fYy6kZCrpFsUTp9IyE2YweV8a3HBw.1


Meeting ID: 820 1314 1123
Passcode: G5G7wm

I will try to record it, if I'm smart enough to figure out how.

[RideMore]

Team, reminder that the first Zoom meeting is tonight at 9pm eastern. We've been coached by some FV and FC people who have been on the same mission but with a three lap head start on us. Given that advice: Our goal for tonight is to decide the next step or two that we should make to increase total 2025 major entries by at least 31 (so we meet or exceed the 5.0 average entry requirement). We have two ideas we'd like to propose to the group. And we'll see what ideas you folks have as well.

[cliff]

Thanks for doing this Tony. I have been in a fog ever since SCCA made that announcement and this is a great first step to move forward. Thanks again!

[RideMore]

Team, reminder that the first Zoom meeting is tonight at 9pm eastern. We've been coached by some FV and FC people who have been on the same mission but with a three lap head start on us. Given that advice: Our goal for tonight is to decide the next step or two that we should make to increase total 2025 major entries by at least 31 (so we meet or exceed the 5.0 average entry requirement). We have two ideas we'd like to propose to the group. And we'll see what ideas you folks have as well.

Surf to the zoom website. On the top right is a button that says "Join". right next to it is a drop down - pick "Use meeting ID". From there it should ask for the meeting ID then the password. Once completed you should be in.

Meeting ID: 820 1314 1123
Passcode: G5G7wm

[RideMore]

Team,

I will post meeting notes tomorrow. It was well attended and very productive. We all learned a lot. One of my action items is to publish the following email address. For those not on the call, you'll learn the importance of the email address tomorrow when we publish the meeting notes here.

formulafusa.gmail.com Note: all lower case

[RideMore]

First Zoom meeting notes – please at least read the short action item list at the bottom
Big picture notes:

• 22 participated
• From the start all agreed that increasing participation in 2025 was THE topic of the meeting
• The meeting stayed very focused, productive, and friendly the entire 2 hours
• An amazingly knowledgeable and helpful group of people
• We made serious progress and agreed on a short-term plan to increase participation in 2025

A few details:

• CRB member John LaRue shared the details of the SCCA’s decision of why to not have small formula participate in most Hoosier Super Tour (HST) events.
  
  • There is strong support and fans of FF and FV throughout the SCCA personnel and decision makers. We should not worry about the classes being eliminated. He noted that the SCCA could have done a better job communicating this point.
  • There are only so many hot track hours available over a weekend, so that limits the number of possible race groups.
  • The decision was made simply due to the SM/SMX class being too many cars for one race group, so they had to split it into two (SM and SMX).
  • And since the resulting SMX only group was going to be larger than the average small formula group, they decided to go with the group that averages more entries.
  • The SCCA wants to keep small formula healthy. Their best guess on how to make up for the HST decision was to make some of the regional events extra special for small formula groupings by giving them Majors points and importance.
  
  
• In the last days, the SCCA has changed the target Major’s participation number for automatic qualification in the runoffs:
  
  • If a class is over the Major’s participation target average, the class is automatically invited to the Runoffs
  • If the class is under the target, there is an internal SCCA discussion on whether to include the class or not to include the class.
    
    • This is too subjective and risky in the opinion of all who participated in the Zoom meeting. Hence everyone fervently agreed our mission is to drive more Majors participation in 2025.
    
    
  • The rule update is – the two year participation rate for all Majors and Runoffs combined needs to average over 5.0 cars per race.
    
    • It was 4.0, now is 5.0
    • It’s evaluated January 1 each year. If over 5.0, the class is automatically included in the runoffs.
    • For 2024, FF average was 4.3. 151 total entries
    • To meet the new target, in 2025 we need over 200 total entries in all majors and the runoffs combined. A 30% increase (50 more entries).
      
      • There are 32 events (weekends) that count. Each event is typically two races. The events are listed in the “files” tab of the Formula F USA Facebook group.
      • The first three events are 43 days from now (January 18, 2025)
      • The Zoom participants were optimistic that we can make this happen.

The action items for all of us:

• Focus on reaching 200+ total entries at Majors and the Runoffs
  
  • We’re going to keep track of the counts relative to the target
  
  
• Each of us is committed to running more Majors in ’25 than ’24. Many are doing a couple more, some three more.
• Hopefully those who could not attend the Zoom will join us at the track to do one or two more Majors.
• The BIGGER opportunity is:
  
  • Recruit regional runners, non-SCCA drivers, and idle cars to run a Major or three.
  • To make recruiting possible:
    
    • We need to make a list of all cars we know about, active and inactive, SCCA or not.
    • EVERONE PLEASE Email us a list of all the cars your aware of to formulafusa@gmail.com
      
      • Owner name, state, and phone number and/or email address
      • We will not sell or share this list, it’ll stay private
      • A subset of the Zoom group will contact everyone to find out how we can help get these cars to one or more Majors
      • Some of these folks will need technical assistance to make it happen, we’ll help coordinate that.
      • Once we learn what the barriers are, we’ll make plans to address them. We have no idea what that looks like until we learn more.

So in summary, please email us a list of drivers/cars that you are aware of so we can help those who are willing and able to get to a few races. Maybe they are just having a hard time finding crew to go with them and belt them into the car and jump start them on the grid– in that case they can paddock with another crew and get that help. Maybe they need help converting their car to running the radials – we can help with that. Maybe they need some take-off tires to help with budgeting – we can help with that. Maybe they just need to be asked…

formulafusa@gmail.com

[BeerBudgetRacing]

• The decision was made simply due to the SM/SMX class being too many cars for one race group, so they had to split it into two (SM and SMX).
• And since the resulting SMX only group was going to be larger than the average small formula group, they decided to go with the group that averages more entries.

Thinking out loud....

While this might seem logical, isn't it likely that SM drivers can now enter into what, 3 classes ? (SM/SMX/STL?)
Before they had to pick SM or SMX (in the same run group)? Plus could run STL? That was 2 run groups. Now they get 3 ?

How is that fair use of track time?

While we are burdened with the task of increasing our car counts, shouldn't SM drivers have to deal with the consequences of too many entries?

Maybe Miata drivers would move to OW if the racing sucks.

[brian styczynski]

I think something that is going to keep coming up with getting idle or non majors cars on track is tires. Consider holding on to your take offs as I am sure you will soon start seeing requests for tires someone can run a weekend on, and having a set to share could be the only barrier to participation for someone.

[cliff]

Brian...good thoughts as well as anyone wanting help with set-up with these tires, there are plenty of folks more than willing to help.
Please don't let tires or set up be the only reason...those 2 barriers are easy to conquer.

[Jonathan Lee]

Most cars post DB1 era & forward will work fine with R60 radial tires.
People with club fords are in a different boat.

You can bolt on the R60 radials and make minor adjustments, if the tire swap affects your ride height - then reset it.
Many teams/individuals who won some of the most highly contested races ran:
Front Camber 2.5-3.0 deg
Rear Camber 1.5-2.0 deg

Front 20psi hot
Rear 20psi hot

Anyone running DB1, DB3, DB6, and late 80s or newer Van Diemen; shouldn't have a problem switching to R60 radials from treaded/bias ply tires.

If you cannot achieve the camber listed above, then you need to buy longer rod ends for the lower A-Arms of your car.

[RideMore]

Thinking out loud....

While this might seem logical, isn't it likely that SM drivers can now enter into what, 3 classes ? (SM/SMX/STL?)
Before they had to pick SM or SMX (in the same run group)? Plus could run STL? That was 2 run groups. Now they get 3 ?

How is that fair use of track time?

While we are burdened with the task of increasing our car counts, shouldn't SM drivers have to deal with the consequences of too many entries?

Maybe Miata drivers would move to OW if the racing sucks.

BeerBudget - don't over think it. If we showed up with 500 FF's at every race we'd need the SCCA to have more than one run group for us. It would not be fair if they did not.

Now, just substitute 70 into the above scenario and change from FF to SM. In tother words, if a lot of them show up, they deserve space. And to make space, people/classes that dont show up will get less time/space.


Here's the real question of the moment - how many Majors are you doing next year?

[RideMore]

Team, In hopes of capturing the best ideas I've been reading about here, and the work B-Spec and FC did a few years ago:

Attached is a first draft of a FF growth plan for 2025. Please comment with suggested changes and improvements. And most importantly, what else do we need to be doing? Lastly, what's the best use for this document? This is OUR document, not mine. Let's create something useful we can use to guide our efforts. Mostly, we just need to write down the best ideas so we all have something we can refer back to so we know how to help each day or week.Like racing, the results will be a direct result of our efforts.

[RideMore]

December 5th Zoom meeting: A link the the video files with audio is attached. The short story is that were successful getting volunteers to be the Points of Contact for the first seven Majors of 2025. Thank you very much to them and see attached image of the list of people and the task list we agreed to.

We discussed many ideas and it was fun and fruitful. Ideas we definitely want to do are:
1. A T-shirt noting our 2025 efforts. Is anyone in the group a graphic artist?
2. Create a website that non-Facebook and Apex Speed users to find us at, and learn about FF. There are thousands of Formula Ford IRacing participants who may be able to find us through the website for example. We want to tell the exciting story of FF.
3. We want to create fliers for each race that notes where to park, where the Saturday night cocktail hour will be, etc. Graphics help would be appreciated.
4. We need to make more progress on the Registry in the next two weeks. More complete contact information in particular. More posts on that topic to come.

Note: its a two hour meeting - I hope there is a way to run the speed faster:


https://drive.google.com/file/d/12jO...usp=drive_link

[RideMore]

Team, the driver registry is up to 159 drivers! Plus the first Majors of 2025 are only a month away. One of the action items from Zoom meeting #4 last Thursday was to ask this group for volunteers' to be the Lead person for each division. The nine divisions are listed just below.

Here's what you'd be asked to do: We are going to send an email to all the drivers who happen to have emails readily available in your division requesting them to contact you, their Division Lead. You would respond back to start a conversation about their plans for 2025 and encourage them to come race with us. In some cases it would be to do a race or two more than last year, in other cases to get back on track after a break. Part of that conversation would include uncovering the barriers and helping them overcome them, as well as helping all of us understand what barriers real people are facing. Plus it would be important to know what we can do to make racing more often fun for them.

We'd also want to encourage them to network with their friends in hopes of more participation in 2025 compared to recently. It's very likely their friends are not on our registry. I'd be surprised if as many as 25% of the drivers we know are actually on our registry. Please message me if you'd like to be a Division Lead for FF.

BTW - we chose this communication path to preserve the privacy of the individuals on the list, including you. Most probably would be fine with a "cold call" or email from you, but its possible some would not. So we're going to take a gentle approach.

SCCA Divisions are as follows:
NP Northern Pacific
SP Southern Pacific
RM Rocky Mountain
CD Central
MW Midwest
SW Southwest
GL Great Lakes
SE Southeast
NE Northeast

[RideMore]

Team, it's time to line up our Points of Contacts for the remaining 2025 Majors. Please comment or PM me if you would like to volunteer. And we really appreciate those who do!

Feb. 22-23: Eagles Canyon Raceway; Decatur, TX
April 5-6: Sonoma Raceway; Sonoma, CA
April 19-20: Summit Point Motorsports Park; Summit Point, WV
May 3-4: Pittsburgh International Wampum, PA
May 3-4: Blackhawk Farms Raceway; S. Beloit, IL Tony Stefanelli
May 3-4: Virginia International Raceway; Alton, VA (Bonus Majors)
May 24-25: Carolina Motorsports Park; Kershaw, SC
May 24-25: MSR Houston; Angleton, TX
May 24-25: Pacific Raceways; Kent, WA
May 24-25: World Wide Technology Raceway; Madison, IL
May 24-25: Gingerman Raceway; South Haven, MI
May 31-June 1: Watkins Glen International; Watkins Glen, NY
May 31- Jun 1: Pueblo Motorsports Park; CO (Bonus Majors)
June 6-8: Road America June Sprints; Elkhart Lake, WI
July 5-6: Roebling Road; Bloomingdale, GA
July 5-6: High Plains Raceway; Deer Trail, CO
July 12-13: New Jersey Motorsports Park Millville, NJ
July 12-13: Ozarks International Raceway; Gravois Mills, MO
July 12-13: Road America Elkhart Lake, WI
July 19-20: Road Atlanta; Braselton, GA (Bonus Majors)
July 25-27: Brainerd International Raceway; Brainerd, MN
August 9-10: Motorsports Park Hastings; Hastings, NE
Aug. 9-10: Mid-Ohio; Lexington, OH (Bonus Majors)
August 16-17: Thompson Speedway Motorsports; Thompson, CT
August 23-24: High Plains Raceway; Deer Trail, CO
Aug. 23-24: Grattan Raceway; Belding, MI
Aug. 30-31: Eagles Canyon Raceway; Decatur, TX

[John LaRue]

The National Convention is on-line and begins on the 16th. There are a number of sessions directed to road racing and one particularly focused on the changes to the Super Tour for 2025. Registration is free and everyone who has spoken up on this site regarding HST, rules, or SCCA in general should participate. https://www.scca.com/events/2006869-...nal-convention

[Messenger Racing]

Thanks John for the reminder - sorry to say we will be at one of the two SCCA majors that weekend and the small open wheel session is on Saturday. I am encouraging some other members of our Formula F/1600 racing USA group to participate.

The National Convention is on-line and begins on the 16th. There are a number of sessions directed to road racing and one particularly focused on the changes to the Super Tour for 2025. Registration is free and everyone who has spoken up on this site regarding HST, rules, or SCCA in general should participate. https://www.scca.com/events/2006869-...nal-convention

[Jim Garry]

Thanks John for the reminder - sorry to say we will be at one of the two SCCA majors that weekend and the small open wheel session is on Saturday. I am encouraging some other members of our Formula F/1600 racing USA group to participate.

Jan 16 - 24

https://whova.com/portal/registration/sccaa_202501/

[CGOffroad]

Team, it's time to line up our Points of Contacts for the remaining 2025 Majors. Please comment or PM me if you would like to volunteer. And we really appreciate those who do!

Feb. 22-23: Eagles Canyon Raceway; Decatur, TX
April 5-6: Sonoma Raceway; Sonoma, CA
April 19-20: Summit Point Motorsports Park; Summit Point, WV

I show 5-6 April as being at Thunderhill. Seems like 2025 had a good bit of 'shifting' and sending out updated schedules from regions. Did I miss an update? Which track is the 5-6 April event being held at?

[John LaRue]

Everything is available on the website. The link to the schedule is https://www.scca.com/pages/national-convention-schedule and attendance is virtual. The schedule will change slightly, the Road Racing Town Hall will be in the time slot where Flagtronics is currently slated Monday January 20 8-9 pm CST. Flagtronics will move to the 4:00 - 5:00 slot on Sunday January 19. Other programs worth listening to:

January 18 1:00 CST Road Racing Program Direction
January 18 6:00 CST BOD Future of SCCA
January 19 12:00 CST Tech
January 19 4:00 CST Flagtronics
January 20 8:00 CST Road Racing Town Hall
January 22 5:00 CST Super Tour & Bonus Majors Discussion
January 22 7:00 CST Road Racing Drivers & Stewards

[SteveG]

I show 5-6 April as being at Thunderhill. Seems like 2025 had a good bit of 'shifting' and sending out updated schedules from regions. Did I miss an update? Which track is the 5-6 April event being held at?

Thunderhill

SFR Schedule is here

[RideMore]

Back for another fun filled evening - ZOOM meeting number 8! Tomorrow, Thursday at 9PM EST. Let us know what else we need to be doing to tell the FF story. And is there anything in particular we need to be doing as a class in regards to the SCCA Convention that starts next week? The fun has only just begun...

Join Zoom Meeting

[[https://us05web.zoom.us/j/82013141123](https://us05web.zoom.us/j/82013141123...)...]([https://us05web.zoom.us/j/82013141123...](https://us05web.zoom.us/j/82013141123...))

Meeting ID: 820 1314 1123

Passcode: G5G7wm

[RideMore]

The attached is a list of people who have contacted us and noted how happy they are to see the energy the team is putting into increasing FF participation. They are cheering us on and have asked how they can help.

The rate of people contacting us is going up. I doubt we are "in" all the right places to be seen, but at least they are finding out about the effort somehow.

[RideMore]

Sorry, just caught up to email, Mike Cobb, President of the SCCA, and Eric Prill, VP of Road Racing asked to be added to the Friends of Formula F list.

[RideMore]

Team, the FV community has invited us to participate in an event tracking project. The link below will take you to a spreadsheet that lists each Major by conference. It would be very helpful if each of you would put your name or at least initials next to your class for the events you hope to attend this year. It will help us understand what's likely to occur this year.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/16maXreUl7S25jiBVGEgobyqtVQF-76XgpK65FqxsX2c/edit?usp=drivesdk

[RideMore]

We are finalizing the idea and hopefully the wording of a tire rule change in the ZOOM call tomorrow night. We really hope to capture the wishes of this team. Please participate if you care about this topic. The ZOOM Address is now in the about section on Formula F USA Facebook page, but also here:

https://us05web.zoom.us/j/82013141123?pwd=6fYy6kZCrpFsUTp9IyE2YweV8a3HBw.1

Meeting ID: 820 1314 1123

Passcode: G5G7wm

[RideMore]

I'm just finishing documenting the proposal for the ZOOM. Wanting to add this about the proposal: Its fully based on the comments on the Formula F USA Facebook page and on Apex Speed and the 30+ phone calls/emails we've gotten on the topic - and thank you to those who did share their ideas. The proposal is a culmination/combination/crashing together of those ideas, they are not mine. The Stefanelli family don’t care a bit what the final tire rule is, the choices are all good enough and we can dial the car into any of them. We want to avoid buying two sets per weekend if possible and you folks are saying exactly the same thing. So, this meeting is for you folks to make a final decision on what you can support. I honestly think you'll be pleasantly surprised how on the same page you folks are and how this can work. I'm also hoping your vibrating with curiosity and passion.

[RideMore]

January 23rd Zoom Tire Rule Discussion
Right or wrong, I’ve decided to do these meeting notes as a summary story rather than a list of points people were making. It was a 3-hour 20 minute meeting so it’s likely you wouldn’t want to read a transcript anyway. I meant to record it but forgot – sorry.
Why have the meeting at all? The overwhelming majority of current drivers are content with the radial tire rule. Many note they don’t care deeply about which tire is required, as long as it doesn’t make the racing more expensive or make the cars less like the high-performance race car it currently is (precise, high grip, and predictable).

However, on our journey to increase participation, we have been finding many people who have cars but are not running SCCA races. Actually, most cars are not racing in SCCA. The overwhelming reason is that they don’t like the current tire rule. Many of us have shared our positive experience with the radial tire to no avail. The main concerns being an inability to get their car to around 3 degrees of camber and fear of peaky performance. So, our goal was to discuss whether a tire rule could be agreed on that would keep the cars performance at a high level to meet current drivers’ expectations while breaking through the barrier for those concerned about the current radial tire. In addition, we need to be realistic that not every era of car is going to be competitive with every other era of car. So, is there a way to have each era race against cars in their own era and not necessarily the other eras? By about 90 minutes in there was a general agreement on a proposed solution. The rest of the time was challenging that solution to see if it stuck – which it did.

Ideas presented that we choose not to pursue (all good, but not chosen)
· Complete switch to the treaded Hoosier Vintage tire (VFF): Two verbal voting sessions 45 minutes apart rejected this idea after at least 30 minutes in total of discussion. The general feeling being that it would not provide the high-performance modern race experience many currently enjoy (precise, high-grip, and predictable). Plus, it was noted the look of the tire on the car was also worth considering (classic vs modern). It was a passionate conversation, but the group passed.
· Complete switch to the Hoosier R60 bias ply: Everyone believes this is a good tire and nearly everyone noted that it wouldn’t be a bad choice. However the reality of this being late January, and the season has already started, ultimately led us to think it’s simply not realistic and terribly inconvenient for Hoosier to move away from the radial for 2025.
· Continue having everyone run the Hoosier radial: It is obvious at this point that a radial-only rule limits participation and we’re harming participation. So, nearly everyone saw the logic of a multi-tire solution. This concept had been discussed with Bruce Foss at Hoosier before the meeting and they are supporting it. Fortunately, that’s not a barrier.

The Multi-tire proposal we are going to pursue (approximately 75% approval)
· All agreed that the following is a 2025 experiment, and we would revisit the results in August of 2025 with the distinct possibility of changes for 2026 based on learnings. But done in time to be realistic. All agreed we need to experiment, or we will stay where we are forever.
· “Modern” FF’s will continue to run the radials. Which once again, they are content to run. Therefore, no rule change is needed.
· A new November 2024 GCR change we discovered this week allows CFF to run in non-HST Majors at the discretion of the host region. This rule has CFF run per the divisions CFF rules. Therefore, this group of drivers will be allowed to run their current tires. As a result, we don’t need to take any tire rule action on their behalf. Naturally, individual drivers can choose to run the radials if they wish. More on CFF below in the action section since there is some unfinished business.
· There is one more group that is not yet addressed. We have heard a lot from DB1 and pre-90 Reynard drivers that their cars will not work on the radials as noted above. There are a lot of these cars in existence. They are well-built cars and fun to see on track, Therefore we want to help them get on track with us. Most of the meeting was spent discussing how to accommodate this group. After a lot of brainstorming and discussion it was decided to propose a new rule for this generation of cars. Some wanted the VFF, but in the end the majority chose the R60 bias ply. Some believe these tires are the same speed as the radial, others around a second faster. We went around and around on this with many stories and fading memories shared. But in general, there are no real concerns of a problem either way. If faster, it will tighten up the field and likely make the races more fun. In general, we believe tire wear will be similar to the radials. If there is an unforeseen problem or unfairness, we will address it seven months from now for 2026. Naturally, individual drivers can choose to run the radials if they wish.
· We are going to make top three decals for each era of car to pass out at impound. Let’s celebrate our uniqueness and successes together.

Action items
1. Think up a name to describe this DB1/pre-’90 Reynard generation of cars. Most have rocker-arm suspension, but not all. It would be nice if the name made it logically obvious for a tech inspector to identify this generation so they can ensure the right tire is on the car. Like “Rock and Roll” “DBRock” “DBR”. For example, CFF always includes outboard suspension on at least one end (I’m talking todays SCCA language here, way to complicated to convert our language to all the various vintage organizations on the planet). Your ideas for the name, please? Today I got advice from a wise and very influential SCCA insider to stay focused on the rocker-arm suspension as the identifier and not year to make it clear for tech and everyone else even if it doesn’t catch the unusual car here and there from that era. We have to keep it simple and very clear who’s who. Note: Our discussion led to us calling 1991 and newer cars “modern”. Mainly justified by the fact that two 1991 push-rod DB-6’s crossed the line first and fourth at the most recent Runoffs and a 1997 Piper was on pole. I propose we actually refer to the “modern” cars as ‘Push-rod” to get a descriptive theme going.
2. Write the rule change request letter to the SCCA (Tony Stefanelli with volunteer help)
3. Very important: We need a large group of people submitting letters to the SCCA in support of the request letter once submitted. It simply needs to say, “I support letter XXXXX”. We will need 75+ people to have a reasonable showing is my guess.
4. A mistake was caught relative to the CFF Majors situation: Prior to the meeting we were told that CFF’s entering a major would be counted as FF entries. We were informed on Friday morning that this was in error, and they would not be counted per the current GCR. But apparently there is a previously submitted letter that requests they be counted. I was told that there are about 10 letters supporting the original letter and that we should offer more support. We need you to submit a letter giving additional support to the original letter. We are trying to track down that letter number for you to reference – hold tight for a couple days. If you happen to be aware of that letter, please let me know.

Team, those are the highlights and most importantly the decisions those who attended reached. I’d like to share an observation that I think is accurate. The SCCA’s charter is to write the rules down that the competitors want (5.2 of the Operations Manual). Our role as competitors is to tell them what we want. Ideally it needs to be in an organized fashion so people can interpret the request with confidence and take action. Why are SRF and Spec Miata working? Well, people at Mazda are paid to have the vision for the class, monitor effectiveness, then give the SCCA a plan – which makes it easy for the SCCA to adopt it and move forward. SRF - people at SCCA Enterprises are paid to have the vision for the class, monitor effectiveness, then present a plan – which makes it easy for SCCA to adopt it and move forward. FF – typically we just send in random fly-by letters as individuals – which makes it hard for the SCCA to identify what to adopt and move forward. That approach is kind of a hot mess of input. Let’s continue to talk as a team, narrow in on our vision, and agree to provide a cohesive plan. No, it’s not easy for us to do, but it would be even harder for them to untangle the Christmas lights when they have a couple dozen classes doing the same. And no, not all of us are going to love every element of the plan. As the Rolling Stones said “You can't always get what you want, But if you try sometime you'll find, You get what you need”.

Thank you for caring, please help, please provide guidance.

[Dave Harmison]

I had heard that the Hoosier R60 was going to be allowed in FF, but that’s not Quite what the Racing Memo says. Or your’e not talking about this Racing Memo.

ISSUED:FROM: TO: SUBJECT:

October 25, 2024
Board of Directors All Participants

NUMBER: RM 24-08


Classes to be Included in Super Tour Events


In GCR section 3.1.1.E make changes as follows: E. Classes to be included in U.S. Majors Tour events:


1. All Majors-eligible classes will be included in Conference and Super Tour events.
2. Regional classes may be included in Majors run groups at Conference Majors events only. See also 3.1.1.1.F.2.b
2. A select number of Majors-eligible classes will be included in the Super Tour events. Included classes will be announced no later than December 1st prior to the start of the season.
3. Regional classes may be included in Majors run groups at Conference Majors events only. See also 3.1.1.1.F.2.b




So, yes, it’s very understandable that CFF’s running as CFF’s will not be included in participation numbers. I also don’t see how this helps the problem if we continue with the Balkanization of FF. Back before the tire rule I could run my CFF as an FF on R60’s (and won once) at Nationals. Since the tire rule, that is impossible unless I change to the Spec Radial.

BTW: I think posting this information in three different places is going to dilute the quality of the discussion. Some will comment here, some there, no one will read it all.

B-BTW: I really do appreciate what the group is trying to do. I just wanted to clarify, if I am right that this is what you’re saying. If I misinterpreted your post, I apologize.

[RideMore]

Dave I appreciate your comments.

I have no idea where to post once where all will notice/see. I'd much rather do must one, believe me.

So, any specific advice on the one spot?

[Dave Harmison]

Personally, I’d start a fresh thread.

More importantly, is the Racing Memo what you were referring to when you said R60’s are allowed?

[RideMore]

Personally, I’d start a fresh thread.

More importantly, is the Racing Memo what you were referring to when you said R60’s are allowed?

Dave,

I went back to double check what I wrote, I don't believe I said R60's are now allowed. If I did somewhere, I didn't mean to say that.

What I was trying to say is that very soon we are going to submit a rules change letter asking to allow rocker-arm and outboard suspension cars to race in R60's. We are also asking that those same cars be allowed to race on the VFF if they choose.

I've been talking to a lot of important people on how to submit the letter and some final word smithing of the letter. I'm waiting for a call back from one person and then I believe its ready. We want it to be correct from the start so it goes smooth.

I'll start a new thread on the tire rule topic once I submit the letter. Thanks

[RideMore]

Note: just started a new thread just for the tire rule change request that we submitted to the SCCA a few minutes ago. In the FF rules section of Apex Speed.

"Formula F proposal to invite older cars via a tire rule change"