FIA-approved rain lights required starting 1/1/2024

[J Leonard]

No mention of brake light function in the installation instructions. Red and green both need power for flash, solid is power to red only.

[Ed Womer]

Well after realizing that this rule was kinda slipped in without us knowing, I did contact my area BOD member and he said that no one objected to it so it just went thorough. He recommended I contact the BOD thorough the national office.

So I did and the lady who returned my email sent me to someone who I replied to. I don't remember who but I am guessing the head of the board. He amazingly responded quickly which started a back and forth. After explaining to him the requirement for an FIA approved light would just increase the cost but provide no benefit over even a auto parts store light for maybe $20 and my latest Afterburner light I have on my first car.
What I thought would be a good reasonable discussion turned into well you didn't object before so to bad. And when he said tech was over whelmed and couldn't possible look at a light to see if it works and is bright but I guess checking for a cert would be okay. I told him that this kinda BS would just cause me to stop racing.

Hold on, it gets better. He said that I should stay a member and that with my experience I should come out and help tech. Yeah, right.

So after I fix the minor damage from a wheel banger at my last race, if I don't try track days my car will go up for sale.

That is really impressive that the club which I am guess is having trouble with retaining members and racers, just doesn't care about us. So lets drive away our 47 year member because they can.

Ed

[924RACR]

Welcome to last year, Ed. Literally. This thread was started on page 1, by Jeff, on 5/19/23. You are now on page 19 of many ApexSpeed members complaining and writing letters through the end of last year, trying to get this dropped.

So maybe it's more accurate to say that, rather than this being "slipped in without us knowing" it was more like "jammed down our throats against extreme protest and without lube."

But safe to say that ship has sailed...

EDIT: I'm a bit confused, you were the third person, right after me, to reply - did you lose sight of this issue? Did you not write a letter to SCCA last year?

Also, feel free to refer your clueless (or lying) BOD member to the many letters we have submitted over the past months to try to fight this. Virtually every FasTrack from June 2023 to Jan 2024 has letters on this.

If he or she can't be bothered to keep track of what's going on in the rules department, you have to ask yourself just what benefit they are providing you, how exactly are they looking out for your interests?

I know mine (Dayle Frame) could care less about this, but obviously that opinion is shared by the entire BOD; they seem to mainly just wish formula cars and prototypes would just go away to make room for more Mazdas and Enterprises cars.

[rockbeau25]

At Blackhawk last weekend maybe 60% of the cars had FIA lights. My rain light was not checked at all during my annual. They did check it for function after Sunday's race, but when asked if they were checking for FIA lights they had no idea what we were talking about. Not trying to beat the dead horse even more on this topic, just reporting my experience.

The FF/FV/F6 race had a deluge on Saturday. My friend's car has a Lifeline light with the plastic cover and I noticed it had filled with moisture. For those of you still needing to buy one, I don't see any reason to spend $50 more for a worse product.

[Mike B]

Hello
Has anyone tried to hookup the required Lifeline rain light so that it has a brake light and the flashing rain light?
I have because at one time the P2 required a Brake light also.

3- wires
Black ground
Red 12 volt from brake switch
Green 12-volt toggle but will not work?
any ideas?
So the brake lights up 3 center lights on braking?
Nothing working on flashing lights
Dave

Dave,
It looks like Lifeline doesn't offer wiring for a brake switch but I would imagine you could try the Cartek diagram and simply wire it as a static light and run the 12v wire to your brake switch. I know you know this but P2 doesn't require a brake light so I personally would not overcomplicate the installation and add a potential failure point.

At Blackhawk last weekend maybe 60% of the cars had FIA lights.

One of the FCs actually had an incandescent rain light.

[924RACR]

Mine was checked during my annual...

I'm sure there's gonna be at least one race where Tech will run around and demand to look at stickers on rain lights...

[EACIII]

I bought the silly light. But to see the sticker on the back of the light I will have to bring extra tools with me to tech to remove the light and mount.

I may join the other Ed and leave SCCA. Seems every year there is another $200 required item on the car.

Ed

[CGOffroad]

I made my mount so the hologram and some of the FIA sticker can be viewed without any removal. I am operating under the assumption that a tech person can see this much of sticker, plus see the thing in operation and be satisfied. This year getting tech was not an issue.

[J Leonard]

wiring

[Hardingfv32]

I'm sure there's gonna be at least one race where Tech will run around and demand to look at stickers on rain lights...

There is no need to see the cert. There are only a couple of lights sold in USA that have the cert. If you have one of those two there no need for tech to do anything more than a casual visual observation.

Brian

[FVRacer21]

I bought the silly light. But to see the sticker on the back of the light I will have to bring extra tools with me to tech to remove the light and mount.

I may join the other Ed and leave SCCA. Seems every year there is another $200 required item on the car.

Ed

I just took a picture of the light and the certificate and stapled it in my log book.

If they have an issue just give them a pair of eclipse glasses

https://www.facebook.com/groups/form...2331032758115/

ChrisZ

[david oleary]

Hello all
If you are using the Lifeline light it requires a separate toggle switch on the red wire to supply 12 volts to the light and then another toggle switch on the on the green wire to make it flash, i was trying to get the red wire to work the brake light but then the light would not work and if you so if you put 12 volts to the green wire without the red wire sending 12 volts to the assembly it will not work either.
So it flashes now with 2 toggle switches. Red makes it light and green makes it flash.

Dave

[FVRacer21]

Well after realizing that this rule was kinda slipped in without us knowing, I did contact my area BOD member and he said that no one objected to it so it just went thorough. He recommended I contact the BOD thorough the national office.

So I did and the lady who returned my email sent me to someone who I replied to. I don't remember who but I am guessing the head of the board. He amazingly responded quickly which started a back and forth. After explaining to him the requirement for an FIA approved light would just increase the cost but provide no benefit over even a auto parts store light for maybe $20 and my latest Afterburner light I have on my first car.
What I thought would be a good reasonable discussion turned into well you didn't object before so to bad. And when he said tech was over whelmed and couldn't possible look at a light to see if it works and is bright but I guess checking for a cert would be okay. I told him that this kinda BS would just cause me to stop racing.

Hold on, it gets better. He said that I should stay a member and that with my experience I should come out and help tech. Yeah, right.

So after I fix the minor damage from a wheel banger at my last race, if I don't try track days my car will go up for sale.

That is really impressive that the club which I am guess is having trouble with retaining members and racers, just doesn't care about us. So lets drive away our 47 year member because they can.

Ed

I asked if the rules makers consider cost when making a new rule - I was assured they do. (????)
I asked if this was driven by insurance - I was told it was not. (????)
It was requested by a P1 or P2 driver, and since in parts of the country we might be forced to run with Atlantics and the like, the rule is one size fits all.
I missed the first announcement - or else I would have been all over it. Jeff posted it (from a friend) and the members of this forum jumped on it and there were more letters written than I can remember over any topic.
But we were a month late....
Then - for some reason not disclosed, the BOD did not follow the rules procedure.
This is a perfect example of, no matter how bad it is, it can always be made worse.

But fool me once shame on you - fool me twice, shame on me.

We used to get Fastrack mailed to us.
Then they sent emails.
Then they stopped.
They seem to be trying again to send out notifications.
If you get an email from kspeed@scca.com
Go to the bottom - If you see a number next to the Road Race trophy - click on it immediately - do not pass go.

Of put a reminder in your calendar to check the following page once a month.

https://www.scca.com/pages/cars-and-rules

ChrisZ

[J Leonard]

Hello all
If you are using the Lifeline light it requires a separate toggle switch on the red wire to supply 12 volts to the light and then another toggle switch on the on the green wire to make it flash, i was trying to get the red wire to work the brake light but then the light would not work and if you so if you put 12 volts to the green wire without the red wire sending 12 volts to the assembly it will not work either.
So it flashes now with 2 toggle switches. Red makes it light and green makes it flash.

Dave

See post 729, one double pole switch does the job.

[Steve Demeter]

Well after realizing that this rule was kinda slipped in without us knowing, I did contact my area BOD member and he said that no one objected to it so it just went thorough. He recommended I contact the BOD thorough the national office.

So I did and the lady who returned my email sent me to someone who I replied to. I don't remember who but I am guessing the head of the board. He amazingly responded quickly which started a back and forth. After explaining to him the requirement for an FIA approved light would just increase the cost but provide no benefit over even a auto parts store light for maybe $20 and my latest Afterburner light I have on my first car.
What I thought would be a good reasonable discussion turned into well you didn't object before so to bad. And when he said tech was over whelmed and couldn't possible look at a light to see if it works and is bright but I guess checking for a cert would be okay. I told him that this kinda BS would just cause me to stop racing.

Hold on, it gets better. He said that I should stay a member and that with my experience I should come out and help tech. Yeah, right.

So after I fix the minor damage from a wheel banger at my last race, if I don't try track days my car will go up for sale.

That is really impressive that the club which I am guess is having trouble with retaining members and racers, just doesn't care about us. So lets drive away our 47 year member because they can.

Ed

Ed, If you are not happy about the rain light just wait til the flagtronics becomes mandatory. I think there is still time tot object to that one

[Steve Davis]

At Blackhawk last weekend ...
The FF/FV/F6 race had a deluge on Saturday. My friend's car has a Lifeline light with the plastic cover and I noticed it had filled with moisture. For those of you still needing to buy one, I don't see any reason to spend $50 more for a worse product.

I was also at that event ... and in that GROUP with the deluge.. Interestingly, *I* found it almost impossible to SEE .. anything at ALL.. in the wake of cars with BRILLIANTLY FLASHING - VERY BRIGHT RAIN LIGHTS!! The rain drops on my visor (both inside and outside) reflected all kinds of kaleidoscope rainbows VERY BRIGHTLY into my eyes. It was REALLY REALLY HARD to see 'through' all that light just to find the edges of the racetrack. The occasional car that I saw that did NOT have 'the all powerful' rain light was MUCH easier to drive behind.
I have to say, I never anticipated a situation like that.. where BRIGHTNESS of the rain light ahead was actually contributing to the LACK of my ability to SEE THE TRACK! Of course.. that was also the HARDEST RAINFALL I can recall ever being in on track in my 45+ years of racing. It was like driving at the bottom of a swimming pool... upside down.... - Thankfully, they flagged it after only 4 laps... and then left us sitting on pit lane .. in the pouring rain.. for another 10 minutes before someone remembered that all the workers had been called in at the first lightning strike...and all the OPEN WHEEL drivers were still sitting on pit lane...drowning... WOW! Then there were the 6 - 10 inch deep puddles to drive through to get back to paddock.
Steve, FV80

[problemchild]

There are many things in life that have associated danger. There certainly are elements in our racing. But doing it, and doing it very well, is what makes it fun and so satisfying. We have come so far since the 60s and 70s, that the risks are so minimal, that we need those people that keep forcing racers to spend their money on unnecessary safety items instead of entry fees, tires, etc, to take their chill pills and let racers enjoy the racing.

[Steve Davis]

There are many things in life that have associated danger. There certainly are elements in our racing. But doing it, and doing it very well, is what makes it fun and so satisfying. We have come so far since the 60s and 70s, that the risks are so minimal, that we need those people that keep forcing racers to spend their money on unnecessary safety items instead of entry fees, tires, etc, to take their chill pills and let racers enjoy the racing.

So true... Tell that to the (ambulance chasing) LAWYERS that have led us to this place . (WHY.. all those years ago.. did we decide to ALLOW them to ADVERTISE ON TV!? )

ALL the organizers of almost EVERYTHING that is enjoyable are, I'm sure, STAGGERED by what our judicial system can DO to them if something untoward should happen. And the insurance companies are right behind the lawyers .. but they HAVE to be for CYA reasons.

It's obvious that SIMULATED 'stimulation' (remember TOTAL RECALL?) is right around the corner .. if not already here in stupid GUN GAMES that teaches children how to PULL TRIGGERS. (We don't need to get started about that on this forum.)

Steve

[Steve Demeter]

see title

[fv9]

So true... Tell that to the (ambulance chasing) LAWYERS that have led us to this place . (

Hey, now! I resemble that comment! :-)

See you in Wisconsin, Steve!

-Quinn

[jemartin144]

I was reading through the rule book and it looks like they have updated the list of acceptable rain lights.

A red rain light meeting FIA Standard 8874-2019, Technical List No. 76, is required on all Formula(open wheel) and Sports Racing cars. This light must be mounted approximately on the centerlineof the car. Cars competing in classes other than Formula and Sports Racing classes may use eithera rain light meeting FIA Standard 8874-2019, Technical List No. 76, or a Super Bright LEDs Inc.P/N PT-STRB-R24 rain light if desired. The rain light may strobe only on Formula and Sports Racing cars.

So, after quickly adding this rule and forcing everyone to spend over $200 for an FIA light they finally decided a $22 trailer light is actually good enough. Nice to see all the letters written in suggesting this very solution of non +$200 option would work back when they proposed this finally gained some traction after we all spent our money. Racers are made of money, though, so no harm done, i guess

https://www.superbrightleds.com/vehi...-24v+color-Red

LED Strobe Light for Trucks and Trailers - 6" Oval - 24 LEDs - Red - 12V / 24V
Part Number:PT-STRB-R24
$21.99ea.

[pacratt]

Cars competing in classes other than Formula and Sports Racing classes may use either a rain light meeting FIA Standard 8874-2019, Technical List No. 76, or a Super Bright LEDs Inc.P/N PT-STRB-R24 rain light if desired.

...they finally decided a $22 trailer light is actually good enough.

So now a simple, standard LED light is acceptable. That's "wonderful"...EXCEPT...once again, Formula & Sports Racers are still singled out to be screwed...
Glenn

[Dave Harmison]

Maybe they’ll change their minds on Flagtronic too now that you’ve spent your money.

[DaveW]

I was reading through the rule book and it looks like they have updated the list of acceptable rain lights.

A red rain light meeting FIA Standard 8874-2019, Technical List No. 76, is required on all Formula(open wheel) and Sports Racing cars. This light must be mounted approximately on the centerline of the car. Cars competing in classes other than Formula and Sports Racing classes may use either a rain light meeting FIA Standard 8874-2019, Technical List No. 76, or a Super Bright LEDs Inc. P/N PT-STRB-R24 rain light if desired. The rain light may strobe only on Formula and Sports Racing cars.

So, after quickly adding this rule and forcing everyone to spend over $200 for an FIA light they finally decided a $22 trailer light is actually good enough. Nice to see all the letters written in suggesting this very solution of non +$200 option would work back when they proposed this finally gained some traction after we all spent our money. Racers are made of money, though, so no harm done, i guess

https://www.superbrightleds.com/vehi...-24v+color-Red

LED Strobe Light for Trucks and Trailers - 6" Oval - 24 LEDs - Red - 12V / 24V
Part Number:PT-STRB-R24
$21.99ea.

Nowhere do I see that Formula or Sports Racers may use the less expensive light...only classes other than these.

However, not to diminish the cost issue to F & SR classes, but there IS some logic to this - the lack of windshield wipers and large amount of spray with open wheels or similar.

[Arbitrary]

They're literally just rubbing it in our faces at this point. For the life of me, I cannot understand why anyone is making an effort to try to get our numbers up in the SCCA.

[FVRacer21]

They're literally just rubbing it in our faces at this point. For the life of me, I cannot understand why anyone is making an effort to try to get our numbers up in the SCCA.

Because they have the rules, administration, licensing and insurance infrastructure that few organizations have. Being the biggest has issues, but also some benefits. Almost all other organizations have some tie with the SCCA.

ChrisZ

[Rick Kirchner]

Because they have the rules, administration, licensing and insurance infrastructure that few organizations have. Being the biggest has issues, but also some benefits. Almost all other organizations have some tie with the SCCA.

ChrisZ

on the other hand, every vintage organization has the same. They're more like regionals, and only race in a few places within their geographic areas. But they recognize other licenses, so you can pretty much race where you want.

What the SCCA has is the Runoffs. Spending national championship dollars not in your budget, no reason to go with the SCCA.

SVRA was approaching a national vintage organization, but got distracted with all these dead pro classes, and their admin is looking more and more like the SCCA.

[FVRacer21]

on the other hand, every vintage organization has the same. They're more like regionals, and only race in a few places within their geographic areas. But they recognize other licenses, so you can pretty much race where you want.

What the SCCA has is the Runoffs. Spending national championship dollars not in your budget, no reason to go with the SCCA.

SVRA was approaching a national vintage organization, but got distracted with all these dead pro classes, and their admin is looking more and more like the SCCA.

"The first race to be organized by IMSA was a Formula Vee and Formula Ford event at Pocono Raceway in October 1969." Wikipedia

When you get big you sometimes forget the people who got you started. If you are being treated extra special, enjoy it, as it may not last.

ChrisZ

[stonebridge20]

on the other hand, every vintage organization has the same. They're more like regionals, and only race in a few places within their geographic areas. But they recognize other licenses, so you can pretty much race where you want.

What the SCCA has is the Runoffs. Spending national championship dollars not in your budget, no reason to go with the SCCA.

SVRA was approaching a national vintage organization, but got distracted with all these dead pro classes, and their admin is looking more and more like the SCCA.

SVRA had more FF's at their national championship race at COTA this past weekend than the Runoffs.

[Amon]

As I posted elsewhere, there are 24 FV's signed up for this upcoming weekends Road Atlanta DriverZ (radial tires) race!

A very good turnout and I bet 2025' will see several weekends with a higher car turnout than what the 25' Runoff's will produce, either via Challenge Cup, DriverZ or the New England Region but it most likely will occur.

Mark

FV #3

[DanW]

on the other hand, every vintage organization has the same. They're more like regionals, and only race in a few places within their geographic areas. But they recognize other licenses, so you can pretty much race where you want.

What the SCCA has is the Runoffs. Spending national championship dollars not in your budget, no reason to go with the SCCA.

SVRA was approaching a national vintage organization, but got distracted with all these dead pro classes, and their admin is looking more and more like the SCCA.

True, and new private equity owner...

[LFFR]

Brake and rain light. Have a flasher module for it, too.

[RideMore]

Two quick things:

1. Anyone not racing due to the rain light - I will buy you one! I'll buy you the FIA rain light if you promise to run three Majors in 2025. If you do not run three, you have to send the rain light and $50 back to me. PM me to take me up on this offer.

2. See video below for rain light comparison and performance. First half of the video: The FF has the FIA rain light and the F600 does not. Which would you want to follow in the second half of the video? Second half: this is the FIA light fading away in the spray at a full course caution restart at RA in July 2024. Would you really want dimmer rain lights?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=850S1CaIAfw