Lola T250 Super Vee

[Falcon Racing]

I recently purchased a Lola T250 Super Vee and am trying to find any early information. The car was invoiced to Carl Hass Automotive on Jan. 18th 1971 and delivered mid to late Jan. The first records I can find show the first Log Book issued by Chicago Region To Warren West in early 1974. Car is believed to have been run in the Pro Series in 1971-72-73 before going to Warren West. Car was then purchased by Ron Taylor of St. Joe, Michigan in 1975 or 1976 and then purchased by Tom Connley of South Bend, IN. in 1979.
No records are available from Carl Hass Automotive, so I'm looking for contact information for Warren West (formerly of Chicago Region who raced a Lola Formula Ford before moving to SV) or any other early information.

Thanks, Dave

[E1pix]

Presuming you’re searching for its Pro history from 1971-73, have you seen and/or contacted the Lola Heritage website?

Gerald Swan is a true and impassioned enthusiast of Lola chassis history, and diligently looking to fill in more HU info — and in turn, spread it right back to people in your position.

All my programs and results are packed in storage while we travel. That may change by summer and moving storage, and will help then if I can find this thread.

It’s worth a look at Runoffs entry lists on the VIR History site, those years are covered and many Pro or semi-Pro S/V guys also ran the Runoffs.

I loved Super Vee and had several friends running in Pro and Club — and winning many titles in the ‘70s.

Best of Luck, and please post whatever you find!!!

[Falcon Racing]

I've been in contact with Gerald Swan at Lola Heritage and he has been very helpful in verifying the car but was not able to give me any information about the early history once it was received at Hass Automotive. Gerald stated that it may have been used as a test car for evaluation as the next T250 was not delivered to Hass until 5 to 6 weeks later. Any information you may have as far as entry lists or race results would be greatly appreciated as it may give me some other contacts to find early history.

Thanks Dave

[E1pix]

From VIR History site…

1971 Runoffs Results

1	Tom Davey, Tenafly, N.1.	NE	Lola
2	John Zeitler, Stamford, Conn.	NE	Zeitler
3	Jim Purcell, Taylor, Mich.	CE	Lynx
4	Galen Lyons, Austin, Tex.	SW	Royale
5	Joe Wedig, Alton, III.	MW	Hawke
6	Harvey Staab, Denver, Colo.	MW	Winkelmann
7	Kirk Stowers, Melbourne, Fla.	SE	Caldwell
8	Bill Baldwin, Gladstone, N.J.	NE	Royale
DNF	John Finger, Greenville, S.C.	SE	Zink
DNF	Harry Ingle, Charlotte, N.C.	SE	Zink
DNF	Dick Cooney, Redlands, Ca.	SP	Hawke
DNS	John Mills, Southfield, Mi.	CE	Lynx
DNS	Jim Tharp, Kansas City, Mo.	MW	Lola T250

1972 Runoffs Results
https://www.virhistory.com/cars/arrc/scans/72-res-3.jpg

1973 Runoffs Results
https://www.virhistory.com/cars/arrc/scans/73-res-3.jpg

It’s a start.

[Falcon Racing]

From VIR History site…

1971 Runoffs Results

1	Tom Davey, Tenafly, N.1.	NE	Lola
2	John Zeitler, Stamford, Conn.	NE	Zeitler
3	Jim Purcell, Taylor, Mich.	CE	Lynx
4	Galen Lyons, Austin, Tex.	SW	Royale
5	Joe Wedig, Alton, III.	MW	Hawke
6	Harvey Staab, Denver, Colo.	MW	Winkelmann
7	Kirk Stowers, Melbourne, Fla.	SE	Caldwell
8	Bill Baldwin, Gladstone, N.J.	NE	Royale
DNF	John Finger, Greenville, S.C.	SE	Zink
DNF	Harry Ingle, Charlotte, N.C.	SE	Zink
DNF	Dick Cooney, Redlands, Ca.	SP	Hawke
DNS	John Mills, Southfield, Mi.	CE	Lynx
DNS	Jim Tharp, Kansas City, Mo.	MW	Lola T250

1972 Runoffs Results
https://www.virhistory.com/cars/arrc/scans/72-res-3.jpg

1973 Runoffs Results
https://www.virhistory.com/cars/arrc/scans/73-res-3.jpg

It’s a start.

Thanks for the info, I'll start from there.
Dave

[E1pix]

You’re welcome, Dave.

Might not be a bad idea to PM me your info. We travel full-time so moving storage will be a mega-thrash, but know exactly where my programs are — in hanging files, doesn’t everyone?

From memory I have programs for:
1971 (possibly June Sprints) S/V Pro race at Road America
1972 June Sprints, S/V Pro race at RA, Brainerd Can-Am (not sure if S/V ran), SCCA Runoffs
1973 June Sprints, S/V Pro race at RA, SCCA Runoffs

You might contact Allen Brown (allen@oldracingcars.com). Wonderful resource, and a real enthusiast, and they’ve added American Super Vee to their remarkable, existing work of the upper pro Formulas and Series.

Here’s what they’ve done for Super Vee documentation so far:
https://www.oldracingcars.com/fsv/

[Lucien j LeBlanc]

I recently purchased a Lola T250 Super Vee and am trying to find any early information. The car was invoiced to Carl Hass Automotive on Jan. 18th 1971 and delivered mid to late Jan. The first records I can find show the first Log Book issued by Chicago Region To Warren West in early 1974. Car is believed to have been run in the Pro Series in 1971-72-73 before going to Warren West. Car was then purchased by Ron Taylor of St. Joe, Michigan in 1975 or 1976 and then purchased by Tom Connley of South Bend, IN. in 1979.
No records are available from Carl Hass Automotive, so I'm looking for contact information for Warren West (formerly of Chicago Region who raced a Lola Formula Ford before moving to SV) or any other early information.

Thanks, Dave

I am located in Grants Pass Oregon I have two Lola T252s. One is close to being completely restored, the other has all the parts to build it and much much, more. You should PM me to get acquainted and see if I can be of help.

Lou LeBlanc

[2fast2stop]

I own T250 HU09 which has been through an extensive frame up restoration. It currently has a 1600cc Type I with a MK8. I have a fresh 2.0L Type IV (dynoed at 148 bhp/138 lb/ft) with a ''new'' MK9 5-speed I bought some years ago that was still new in the box with the original HAAS spec tag. It was setup for an AC car with the reverse linkage, and it has a Quaife. I also designed an uber strong sportscar nose, 13 lbs.

I also have T252 HU26, only raced by a local racer for three years then stuffed in a corner for 45 years. It has all the original parts as delivered from Lola, mirror brackets, exhaust header hangar/ rain light combo bracket and more.

Best,

Frank G. Muegge
St. Louis

[E1pix]

It would be great to know more history of Lucien’s and Frank’s cars.

Super Vee is sadly short of known lineage.

[2fast2stop]

It would be great to know more history of Lucien’s and Frank’s cars.

Super Vee is sadly short of known lineage.

The T252 HU26 that I own was purchased from HAAS and driven by Joe Wedig. The log for HU26 shows it was Invoiced to Haas on the 12^th July 1971. It was fitted with Hewland gearbox H8 1306, engine number127 U 001745 and Blue bodywork. I believe he was from Belleville, IL. He raced the car for about three years and parked it and it was never raced again. I bought it in boxes and it still has the original blue paint and all numbers and class designation are ''had painted on.''

I purchased the T250 HU09 in the pictures from someone in Chicago. It was another mess I bought in boxes with no driver history but it has been reborn. Lola’s Chassis Logs state that HU09 was invoiced to Carl Haas (as Lola’s North American agent) on 7^th May 1971 as a rolling chassis fitted with Royal Blue bodywork.

I also have water cooled SV T328 HU97 with no history as well. Call me a sucker for old Super Vees but they were a huge part of racing and getting to Indy cars back in the day....








.

[E1pix]

I could be wrong, Frank… but think David Hansen of Racine, Wisconsin had a blue T250 before buying a Lola orange T324 in early 1976. The 324 was the first of over 500 race cars I lettered in the day.

I’ll direct Allen Brown of OldRacingCars.com to this thread at some point. I know they’ve been slowly piecing HU numbers together, but also know it may be an impossible task. F-Atlantic was hard enough, but sadly for Super Vee that series had so many powerhouse drivers (peaking in 1976!) that it’s taken some priority.

I think only a half-dozen T328s were built (?) so hope you can find more on that one, too.

Thanks.

[2fast2stop]

I could be wrong, Frank… but think David Hansen of Racine, Wisconsin had a blue T250 before buying a Lola orange T324 in early 1976. The 324 was the first of over 500 race cars I lettered in the day.

I’ll direct Allen Brown of OldRacingCars.com to this thread at some point. I know they’ve been slowly piecing HU numbers together, but also know it may be an impossible task. F-Atlantic was hard enough, but sadly for Super Vee that series had so many powerhouse drivers (peaking in 1976!) that it’s taken some priority.

I think only a half-dozen T328s were built (?) so hope you can find more on that one, too.

Thanks.

As usual with these old cars in boxes, no log books. I can not find the log book numbers that should have been stamped on the main hoops otherwise I could have contacted the original region of record. The main hoop on the 328 was replaced with a taller hoop with no log number. I have searched the entire chassis on the 250 without luck as well. The 250 had a binder with all kinds of setup notes and other miscellaneous paperwork but nothing that leads back to the original owner. The 252 is stamped and was registered by Southern Illinois Region 58....

[E1pix]

Thanks Frank, some good clues there — wish I had immediate access to my files!

The tall rollbar is a great clue to me… troubling as it sounds, is there an inconspicuous section of bodywork where the paint could be scraped off to reveal the original gelcoat? Any deep rock chips on the nose, or restored like your 252? (beautifully, by the way!)

Wish I had our S/V film with us now, too. We were great friends with Bob Lazier, he was very tall and maybe too much so for the standard rollbar, so I wonder if the T328 could have been his. I’m quite sure Bob’s T328 was in the Montgomery Ward colors that he carried into 1978 on a T620, so it’s likely or at least preferable graphically that the original gelcoat would be white.

And Oh, I looked on Lola Heritage and I was dead wrong… there were 18 T328s built. I must have meant only six came here and am going with that, Haha.

What I do recall is very few ran T328s in Pro to my recollection, it wasn’t much of a leap past the T326 in performance.

Plus, with the water-cooled formula and the T620 both in development, some or most were awaiting the 1978 rules — and the chassis tailored to them. I do know our friend Eddie Miller carried his (Carl Haas-owned) T326 into early ‘78 as an air-cooled, while planning to run a T620 asap… but other commitments got in the way. He ran Pro Ford instead in a T440, with continued support from John Barker and Performance Development & Racing in Denver.

Eddie had enjoyed tremendous favor with Carl Haas since winning the ‘72 FF Runoffs, and moving straight to F5000. He was Carl’s first supported young protege in heading up the ladder from FF, and the first American driver to unknowingly create the soon-imitated model of FF and/or Super Vee to Indy car.

Sadly in the end, Eddie turned down Carl’s offer for pro Atlantic in that magical year of 1976 — to *finally* get a shot at Indy though in a mid-field ride — and Tom Klausler inherited the Atlantic deal from Haas.

[2fast2stop]

Thanks Frank, some good clues there — wish I had immediate access to my files!

The tall rollbar is a great clue to me… troubling as it sounds, is there an inconspicuous section of bodywork where the paint could be scraped off to reveal the original gelcoat? Any deep rock chips on the nose, or restored like your 252? (beautifully, by the way!)

Wish I had our S/V film with us now, too. We were great friends with Bob Lazier, he was very tall and maybe too much so for the standard rollbar, so I wonder if the T328 could have been his. I’m quite sure Bob’s T328 was in the Montgomery Ward colors that he carried into 1978 on a T620, so it’s likely or at least preferable graphically that the original gelcoat would be white.

And Oh, I looked on Lola Heritage and I was dead wrong… there were 18 T328s built. I must have meant only six came here and am going with that, Haha.

What I do recall is very few ran T328s in Pro to my recollection, it wasn’t much of a leap past the T326 in performance.

Plus, with the water-cooled formula and the T620 both in development, some or most were awaiting the 1978 rules — and the chassis tailored to them. I do know our friend Eddie Miller carried his (Carl Haas-owned) T326 into early ‘78 as an air-cooled, while planning to run a T620 asap… but other commitments got in the way. He ran Pro Ford instead in a T440, with continued support from John Barker and Performance Development & Racing in Denver.

Eddie had enjoyed tremendous favor with Carl Haas since winning the ‘72 FF Runoffs, and moving straight to F5000. He was Carl’s first supported young protege in heading up the ladder from FF, and the first American driver to unknowingly create the soon-imitated model of FF and/or Super Vee to Indy car.

Sadly in the end, Eddie turned down Carl’s offer for pro Atlantic in that magical year of 1976 — to *finally* get a shot at Indy though in a mid-field ride — and Tom Klausler inherited the Atlantic deal from Haas.

The restored car is my T250, HU09. Below is a picture of my T328 when it was delivered. A winged front nose and very nicely fabricated sidepods made from aluminum. Right now it's just a tub....

[2fast2stop]

I recently purchased a Lola T250 Super Vee and am trying to find any early information. The car was invoiced to Carl Hass Automotive on Jan. 18th 1971 and delivered mid to late Jan. The first records I can find show the first Log Book issued by Chicago Region To Warren West in early 1974. Car is believed to have been run in the Pro Series in 1971-72-73 before going to Warren West. Car was then purchased by Ron Taylor of St. Joe, Michigan in 1975 or 1976 and then purchased by Tom Connley of South Bend, IN. in 1979.
No records are available from Carl Hass Automotive, so I'm looking for contact information for Warren West (formerly of Chicago Region who raced a Lola Formula Ford before moving to SV) or any other early information.

Thanks, Dave

It would be great to see some pictures of your 250....

[E1pix]

Knew that was the T250, and now remember the T328 from your earlier postings.

The “speedway” nose may even be a clue pointing its history towards Mini-Indy over SCCA… and strikes me as a one-off.

It’s all harder than guessing the distance to Alpha Centauri.

[provamo]

dry sump carburetors ?

[kea]

dry sump carburetors ?

Yep, that was a "thing" for a while, but I only saw it on Water-Cooled.

[Steve Demeter]

Dry sump carbs were standard issue on Air Cooled cars because the Solex carbs that were run by essentially everyone had floats that would sink under the g loading. Al east that is the explanation given by someone who should know....

[Rick Kirchner]

The previous owner of my car had sold the carbs before I got it, but they were rumored to be dry sump - with 5 pumps no less - one from the cell to a sump tank, one each to supply each carb and one each to scavenge them.

I can't for the life of me figure out how these would have been plumbed in the space available. I'd also think that a sump pump failure is an invitation to a huge fire.

If anyone has pics of one of those setups and the mods in the carbs, I'd love to see them.

[Steve Demeter]

True a scavenge pump failure could be a real interesting deal. Fortunately in 16years of using them never had one fail. Changed a few that It thought might fail to be safe

[2fast2stop]

dry sump carburetors ?

I have two Bertils AC engines, and both have the dry sump Solex carbs....