Banshee numbers

[SpiritRacingCNC]

Hello, does anyone know how many Banshee BTF's were produced? Maybe how many are left?

Just curious

[zcars]

Hi,
To the best of my knowledge 6 or 7 were fully assembled and actually raced, There were I believe 3 more chassis fully welded
awaiting completion which never took place. There were suspension parts that were made also as well as other bits and pieces
and there was a jig available for the suspension and the chassis itself, Hard to say how many of these cars are still around though.

[SpiritRacingCNC]

Hi,
To the best of my knowledge 6 or 7 were fully assembled and actually raced, There were I believe 3 more chassis fully welded
awaiting completion which never took place. There were suspension parts that were made also as well as other bits and pieces
and there was a jig available for the suspension and the chassis itself, Hard to say how many of these cars are still around though.

Hello zcars, thank you very much. I've only seen a few posts on here with information about these cars. I own one and was curious to how many exist. I guess there is no way of telling what chassis you have since there is no serial number plate. At least not one I've found yet and I've had the whole car stripped to bare chassis. I'm from PA and I know of 1 other in PA too who is a member here. I think I saw a thread started here with a chassis in AZ where the guy was going to swap in a Subaru engine and powder coated the frame but I didn't see any more progress on that thread.

Anyone have an idea of where the other survivors are located? I'm assuming that none of the still race with the FRCCA?

Thanks

[zcars]

You're welcome and now you have me curious - may I ask what you plan to do with that car ? Hillclimb events maybe if
you are contemplating an engine swap such as a Subaru unit like the other guy, wonder how far he got with that project.
If your car's bodywork is/was painted orange then it belonged to John who ran the FRCCA for a few years and no one has
raced a banshee with the FRCCA for some years now. I think there was one other guy from PA who had a white one who
did a few races with the FRCCA about 10 years ago. It's too bad there are no serial numbers on these cars so hard to trace
what little history it has. Anyway best of luck with whatever you're doing with that car and in case you're wondering the
BTF designation after Banshee stands for 'back to the future' !

[SpiritRacingCNC]

You're welcome and now you have me curious - may I ask what you plan to do with that car ? Hillclimb events maybe if
you are contemplating an engine swap such as a Subaru unit like the other guy, wonder how far he got with that project.
If your car's bodywork is/was painted orange then it belonged to John who ran the FRCCA for a few years and no one has
raced a banshee with the FRCCA for some years now. I think there was one other guy from PA who had a white one who
did a few races with the FRCCA about 10 years ago. It's too bad there are no serial numbers on these cars so hard to trace
what little history it has. Anyway best of luck with whatever you're doing with that car and in case you're wondering the
BTF designation after Banshee stands for 'back to the future' !

Yep the car sure was painted orange / black / white with John's name and another individual by the name of Nate Steel. I removed all the stickers and am in the process of repainting the body (probably) black with neon yellow accent. The car is basically stock besides 15x8 & 15x7 wheels, Hoosier R25B tires, new master cylinders and EMPI 34 PICT carbs. ( I could never get it to run right with the Webber 32/36. I tried for months. I think the lack of a preheat tube in the manifold was the culprit. So I got the EMPI'S ) I took whole engine apart and resealed everything. I ran the Weatherly hill climb with it this year and a Pocono track sprint, car is a blast in the corners but I need to either re-gear it or put on a stock VW trans in. It is horrible at a launch with the road racing gears, all it does is bog until about 3000 rpm. I suppose if I had the stock hard tires I'm sure I could get some wheel speed with launch but the the R25B's are just to sticky for the low power.

The car was ready for the dump when I got it so I took my time to strip it all down and repaint it. I've always wanted a formula car and this is perfect for my budget.

This fall I started piecing together a turbo kit using a KKK K04 turbo. I want it to spool quick out of the corners since most all the PHA hill climbs have a lot of steep graded hairpins. Unfortunately I had some very expensive vet bills recently with surgery's for one of my dogs. So the plan is now to just hone the cylinders and re-ring it for next season and practice on my driving. If I had the money I would definitely stroke it to 2000 something cc's with bigger carbs.

I have an old Lola frisbee Can-Am wing for the back that I have been slowly making attachments for but I will not be adding it until I figure out what I want to do for the front wing. I will either make one or was thinking of using a micro sprint front wing on each side of the nose.

Here's some pictures of it at the end of the season.

Also the class I have to compete in with the PHA puts me in S1 which is all bike engine formula and 2 stroke sports racers so I'm really just trying to have fun. Really no chance of competing. A turbo would bump me to S2 which I would be more competitive in.

[SpiritRacingCNC]

Yep the car sure was painted orange / black / white with John's name and another individual by the name of Nate Steel. I removed all the stickers and am in the process of repainting the body (probably) black with neon yellow accent. The car is basically stock besides 15x8 & 15x7 wheels, Hoosier R25B tires, new master cylinders and EMPI 34 PICT carbs. ( I could never get it to run right with the Webber 32/36. I tried for months. I think the lack of a preheat tube in the manifold was the culprit. So I got the EMPI'S ) I took whole engine apart and resealed everything. I ran the Weatherly hill climb with it this year and a Pocono track sprint, car is a blast in the corners but I need to either re-gear it or put on a stock VW trans in. It is horrible at a launch with the road racing gears, all it does is bog until about 3000 rpm. I suppose if I had the stock hard tires I'm sure I could get some wheel speed with launch but the the R25B's are just to sticky for the low power.

The car was ready for the dump when I got it so I took my time to strip it all down and repaint it. I've always wanted a formula car and this is perfect for my budget.

This fall I started piecing together a turbo kit using a KKK K04 turbo. I want it to spool quick out of the corners since most all the PHA hill climbs have a lot of steep graded hairpins. Unfortunately I had some very expensive vet bills recently with surgery's for one of my dogs. So the plan is now to just hone the cylinders and re-ring it for next season and practice on my driving. If I had the money I would definitely stroke it to 2000 something cc's with bigger carbs.

I have an old Lola frisbee Can-Am wing for the back that I have been slowly making attachments for but I will not be adding it until I figure out what I want to do for the front wing. I will either make one or was thinking of using a micro sprint front wing on each side of the nose.

Here's some pictures of it at the end of the season.

[zcars]

Car is looking good ! yep that was definitely the car I was thinking of, (John's) he did well with it racing with the FRCCA.
I raced one of these cars once (different one) and was told to make sure the engine was fully warmed up - even hot before going out for a session so you may be spot on was to why it wouldn't run properly on a weber 32/36 since the manifold doesn't have a preheat tube. The guys who built the car did used a different carb and it may have been an EMPI as well. The car did handle well, that
chassis is very stiff. Perhaps you can change the 1st gear to make it more suitable for those standing starts when you run those
hill climb events, I would think VW specialists would be able to help with that. The transmission itself may have been that car's
weakpoint so anything you can do to make it stronger will certainly pay off especially after you add that turbo !!!
I certainly understand not having extra $$$ right now after one of your dog's having surgery, taking care of a dog is what kept me
from racing this past season so I know the feeling.
I'm just happy to see someone still racing one of these Banshees so I hope you continue to do so.
it will be interesting to see what that car looks like when you install the front and rear wings, Don't forget to make the rear wing
a DRS unit, Jim Chapparal style with the foot operated contraption to lessen the wing angle on the straights (if the rules allows it )

[SpiritRacingCNC]

Car is looking good ! yep that was definitely the car I was thinking of, (John's) he did well with it racing with the FRCCA.
I raced one of these cars once (different one) and was told to make sure the engine was fully warmed up - even hot before going out for a session so you may be spot on was to why it wouldn't run properly on a weber 32/36 since the manifold doesn't have a preheat tube. The guys who built the car did used a different carb and it may have been an EMPI as well. The car did handle well, that
chassis is very stiff. Perhaps you can change the 1st gear to make it more suitable for those standing starts when you run those
hill climb events, I would think VW specialists would be able to help with that. The transmission itself may have been that car's
weakpoint so anything you can do to make it stronger will certainly pay off especially after you add that turbo !!!
I certainly understand not having extra $$$ right now after one of your dog's having surgery, taking care of a dog is what kept me
from racing this past season so I know the feeling.
I'm just happy to see someone still racing one of these Banshees so I hope you continue to do so.
it will be interesting to see what that car looks like when you install the front and rear wings, Don't forget to make the rear wing
a DRS unit, Jim Chapparal style with the foot operated contraption to lessen the wing angle on the straights (if the rules allows it )

I hope your dog is doing well again. Yep I will update the thread with pictures when I get all the mounts and bugs worked out. Thanks again for the info on the banshee. I was definitely thinking about a kind of DRS unit / airbrake for years. I have to look at the supplemental hill climb rules to see if they allow for moveable aerodynamics. The only downside is if I'm expecting the wing to be at an aggressive angle of attack coming into the corner and it gets stuck flat I'd have less downforce. I'll play around with the idea some more.

[jrh3]

Big tires and a turbo, suggest you budget in a new trans. The welded up gears are rather weak and the California trans builder is not very interested in this old built up box. The Samba had some close ratios for a somewhat reasonable price that I used but still basically a two speed transmission for road racing.

yes, the transaxle was built in California. I forgot which builder but is was one of the big outfits. Best I can remember, first and second had welded up gears. One went south in my box and they were not interested in helping. Later learned that AJ had some spares but unfortunately he has passed on.

The frame is very simple and would be easy to duplicate. Unfortunately, quite heavy and strong with 1” sq tubing 0.120 wall, mig welded. Also, steel belly. VW golf or similar carriers, spindles, hubs as I remember.
A lightweight frame and Hewland would make a very fun car .

[Stan Clayton]

Good looking car!

Just curious...do the chassis plans still exist?

[SpiritRacingCNC]

Big tires and a turbo, suggest you budget in a new trans. The welded up gears are rather weak and the California trans builder is not very interested in this old built up box. The Samba had some close ratios for a somewhat reasonable price that I used

JRH3 are you saying that the trans in these cars came from a California builder?

[SpiritRacingCNC]

Good looking car!

Just curious...do the chassis plans still exist?

I have no idea. I'm sure they around somewhere. As mentioned previously there is extra parts that we left over. As to who has them and who they are I have no clue? Are you planning on recreating the chassis? Just wondering.

[SpiritRacingCNC]

Big tires and a turbo, suggest you budget in a new trans. The welded up gears are rather weak and the California trans builder is not very interested in this old built up box. The Samba had some close ratios for a somewhat reasonable price that I used but still basically a two speed transmission for road racing.

yes, the transaxle was built in California. I forgot which builder but is was one of the big outfits. Best I can remember, first and second had welded up gears. One went south in my box and they were not interested in helping. Later learned that AJ had some spares but unfortunately he has passed on.

The frame is very simple and would be easy to duplicate. Unfortunately, quite heavy and strong with 1” sq tubing 0.120 wall, mig welded. Also, steel belly. VW golf or similar carriers, spindles, hubs as I remember.
A lightweight frame and Hewland would make a very fun car .

Thank you for the info. Do you happen to know what they did to the trans to get it to go road racing? Like I said above at hill climbs it is geared way to high. Wondering if all 1-4 gear rations were changed or a final drive modification? Basically I am wondering would it be an easy fix to get the gearing down for standing launches or am I better of getting a stock box and building it stronger?

[zcars]

I hope your dog is doing well again. Yep I will update the thread with pictures when I get all the mounts and bugs worked out. Thanks again for the info on the banshee. I was definitely thinking about a kind of DRS unit / airbrake for years. I have to look at the supplemental hill climb rules to see if they allow for moveable aerodynamics. The only downside is if I'm expecting the wing to be at an aggressive angle of attack coming into the corner and it gets stuck flat I'd have less downforce. I'll play around with the idea some more.

<br>

<br><br>&nbsp; &nbsp;Thanks and hope your dog has recovered well from the surgery by now. It will be interesting to see what you come up with for your rear moveable wing, should be a fun engineering project, just hope it's not against the rules to use one

[zcars]

Thank you for the info. Do you happen to know what they did to the trans to get it to go road racing? Like I said above at hill climbs it is geared way to high. Wondering if all 1-4 gear rations were changed or a final drive modification? Basically I am wondering would it be an easy fix to get the gearing down for standing launches or am I better of getting a stock box and building it stronger?

Just wondering out loud - Maybe guys/gals in the Supervee community has the answer to your transmission concerns -
I don't know what gearboxes they use/used but they may have contacts that are still in business, long shot I know.

[Eastcoaststeve]

Bumping this thread as there is a Banshee headed my way and I'm hoping to track down what happened to the parts that were left over after the production run.

Thanks.
Steve

[SpiritRacingCNC]

Bumping this thread as there is a Banshee headed my way and I'm hoping to track down what happened to the parts that were left over after the production run.

Thanks.
Steve

Hey Steve. what one are you getting? Is it the roller with purple bodywork?

[Eastcoaststeve]

Hey Steve. what one are you getting? Is it the roller with purple bodywork?

Yes, it's my Winter project.
Hoping to have it ready for next Autocross season, and maybe some hillclimbs once I get comfortable in it.




Steve

[SpiritRacingCNC]

Yes, it's my Winter project.
Hoping to have it ready for next Autocross season, and maybe some hillclimbs once I get comfortable in it.




Steve

Nice! I thought so, I've had many conversations through messenger with the old owner. Where from in PA? I'm in the Scranton / Wilkes-Barre area. Are your plans to go back to VW power, I may have some parts? I've since converted mine to a 2 stroke triple from a Polaris snowmobile with chain drive after i smoked the VW. It would be awesome to see you on the hills next year. Hers how mine currently sits. Actually it currently in pieces for a rebuild.

[Eastcoaststeve]

Nice! I thought so, I've had many conversations through messenger with the old owner. Where from in PA? I'm in the Scranton / Wilkes-Barre area. Are your plans to go back to VW power, I may have some parts? I've since converted mine to a 2 stroke triple from a Polaris snowmobile with chain drive after i smoked the VW. It would be awesome to see you on the hills next year. Hers how mine currently sits. Actually it currently in pieces for a rebuild.

Yes. I got the roller from Joe. He lives close by. He made me a package deal on the roller, the big VW motor (getting rebuilt now) and transmission. I'm in Fort Washington PA. Been running a shifter kart in Philly AX.
I just picked up a set of Bassett wheels and 4 Avon slicks.
Plan is to get it all back together before Spring. I have the body panels, but they definitely need some work. Looking forward to finally learning fiberglass repair.

Your car is awesome!!
I'll bet it is crazy fun and sounds sweet with that motor.
Do you have more pics of it? Video of racing?

What parts do you have kicking around?
Was hoping to chase down the leftover parts from the "production" run.

Thanks,
Steve

[SpiritRacingCNC]

Yes. I got the roller from Joe. He lives close by. He made me a package deal on the roller, the big VW motor (getting rebuilt now) and transmission. I'm in Fort Washington PA. Been running a shifter kart in Philly AX.
I just picked up a set of Bassett wheels and 4 Avon slicks.
Plan is to get it all back together before Spring. I have the body panels, but they definitely need some work. Looking forward to finally learning fiberglass repair.

Your car is awesome!!
I'll bet it is crazy fun and sounds sweet with that motor.
Do you have more pics of it? Video of racing?

What parts do you have kicking around?
Was hoping to chase down the leftover parts from the "production" run.

Thanks,
Steve

Oh, okay. Yea that car is going to be pretty quick with that built VW. I'd stay with that. Reason I went 2 stroke was because a fully built air cooled just wasn't in the budget and the 2 stroke makes pretty decent power for how light the engine is 'about 75 lbs dry' 97hp. No I don't have any go pro video yet since I've been fighting with carb and CVT tuning all summer. There are some clips of it on YouTube at the fall weatherly hill climb at 1:26:51 and 2:13:15. I have everything out of it right now. Its getting repowered with a different 2 stroke engine and probably diff drive instead of chain.

I don't think I have many spare parts. I've been looking for spare control arms and what not. It seems that they aren't out there and will have to be fabricated. I have the original long gear transmission all disassembled, its pretty beat though.

Hopefully I'll see you at some PHA or Pocono events next year.

[Eastcoaststeve]

Oh, okay. Yea that car is going to be pretty quick with that built VW. I'd stay with that. Reason I went 2 stroke was because a fully built air cooled just wasn't in the budget and the 2 stroke makes pretty decent power for how light the engine is 'about 75 lbs dry' 97hp. No I don't have any go pro video yet since I've been fighting with carb and CVT tuning all summer. There are some clips of it on YouTube at the fall weatherly hill climb at 1:26:51 and 2:13:15. I have everything out of it right now. Its getting repowered with a different 2 stroke engine and probably diff drive instead of chain.

I don't think I have many spare parts. I've been looking for spare control arms and what not. It seems that they aren't out there and will have to be fabricated. I have the original long gear transmission all disassembled, its pretty beat though.

Hopefully I'll see you at some PHA or Pocono events next year.

Sounds like you have your hands full.
2 stroke motor is a lot lighter than the VW lump.

Seems odd that whatever production parts were left just disappeared...someone must know what happened to them when Buddy passed away.

[stonebridge20]

Seems odd that whatever production parts were left just disappeared...someone must know what happened to them when Buddy passed away.

Most likely it all went to the scrap yard when Buddy was closing down the shop. He had called me to see if I wanted to buy the three seater that I built when he was closing down. He said that everything had to go. That was in 2017 I think.

[Eastcoaststeve]

Most likely it all went to the scrap yard when Buddy was closing down the shop. He had called me to see if I wanted to buy the three seater that I built when he was closing down. He said that everything had to go. That was in 2017 I think.

That would be a huge shame.
7 years is a lot of time though.

I saw somewhere that he had a welder who fabbed the frames. I had his name somewhere and tried to track him down hoping he might know, but no luck.


Steve

[stonebridge20]

That would be a huge shame.
7 years is a lot of time though.

I saw somewhere that he had a welder who fabbed the frames. I had his name somewhere and tried to track him down hoping he might know, but no luck.


Steve

You may want to try and track down Buddy's daughter, Kim Palumbo. She's on Facebook.

[Eastcoaststeve]

You may want to try and track down Buddy's daughter, Kim Palumbo. She's on Facebook.

Thanks for the lead. Will try.

Looks like the frame welders name was Rob Bartels if anyone knows him.

Thanks,
Steve

[stonebridge20]

Looks like the frame welders name was Rob Bartels if anyone knows him.

Thanks,
Steve

Bobby "Griz" Bartels

I haven't seen that dude in many moons.

[Eastcoaststeve]

Bobby "Griz" Bartels

I haven't seen that dude in many moons.

Trying to track him down but no luck yet.

Steve

[Eastcoaststeve]

Found this stamp while cleaning frame.