Foot Clearance - left foot braking

[Ben_Zlotkin]

Hello All,

This is my first post here, so feel free to direct me to older posts if this has been covered. I have not found it thus far.

I am new to HF racing, having just purchased a '69 Merlyn Mk11A a few months back. I have run one race with it, and have some learning and adjustment to do. I do love the car though.

I am coming from GT racing, and when I got into my FF, I was very surprised to find that I barely fit. I am 5'10" at most and about 175lbs. We pushed the pedals forward and the seat back as far as we can, and I am ok on overall length now. The issue is foot clearance.

I am generally a size 10.5 / 44, and am wearing undersized shoes to drive. With the small shoes I have room to heal toe and just barely clear the upper cross member with my toes.

Here is the question part:

I am an fan of left foot braking and think in this car, it would benefit me personally a lot. However, my foot will never fit underneath the steering shaft. I am wondering if anyone has modified these vintage FFs to allow for left foot braking. Either by fabricating a special pedal mod or perhaps with a mod to the steering shaft. The reasons not to do this are obvious, but if someone has had some success here, I would love to know what they did.

I am wearing a size 43 shoe, so these are not giant feet I am driving with.

Thank you!

Ben

[DaveW]

Here's what I did on my Citation:

You can see the extension bolted to the side of the pedal under the steering column. The rounded cutout in the 2nd picture clears the steering column.

[Lotus7]

I saw a vintage FF that had a custom brake pedal pivot, with a pair of arms that rose up in a V shape on either side of the steering column, so he could brake with either foot.
May have a photo somewhere....

Trick with this mod is to design it so it doesn't put too much torsion in the bottom pivot and cause it to bind (or break!).

[Rick Kirchner]

Another thing to think of when setting up fior LFB is to lower the clutch pedal as far as you can get away with so you don't push on it while braking.

[EricP]

Ben,

I came from production cars too. My 911 basically required left foot braking to settle the car in various situations. So I obsessed about adapting my pedals in the Citation to allow left foot braking. But now I find when gearing and suspension setup are right on, I don’t need the left foot brake. YMMV but you might be compensating for another problem with left foot. Just a thought…

[Ben_Zlotkin]

Thanks to all of you for your replies.


Here, and through emails I sent to others, I have gotten good feedback on potential designs and have actually found quite a few FFs with various 4 pedal setups.

Having said that, I have also had a number of people say that they ended up not using the pedals / not left foot braking after they sorted out their technique with the car.

First step is a few more test days outside of a race weekend to focus on my timing and technique. Pending how that goes, I now have some great pedal mod examples.

Ben

[DaveW]

...Having said that, I have also had a number of people say that they ended up not using the pedals / not left foot braking after they sorted out their technique with the car...

I very rarely used left foot braking. It was useful in stabilizing/slowing the car slightly w/o backing off the throttle with the Pinto heading into fast turns like turn 1 at Mid-Ohio, but have not used it in the last 15 years or so. With the fuel-injected Zetec, throttle response is so good I haven't found it necessary. I do use it to warm the brakes on the out lap.

[BeerBudgetRacing]

Another thing to think of when setting up fior LFB is to lower the clutch pedal as far as you can get away with so you don't push on it while braking.

Or worse yet stomping on the brake when trying to use the clutch!

[TimH]

Or worse yet stomping on the brake when trying to use the clutch!

Locking up all four tires when trying to downshift to first in the start formation can make for serious chaos. Ask me how I know...

[Rick Kirchner]

Or worse yet stomping on the brake when trying to use the clutch!

I hate to say it but I usually LFB on starts and drop the brake at the green. But at Willow last March I didn't use that technique, and instead, jabbed the brakes hard instead of going for the clutch on the upshift. Pretty sure a couple of guys behind me had to clean out their drawers.

**** happens....

[pooch776]

Here is a set of Crossle 32-35F pedals modified for left foot braking. Maybe a similar design would work for your needs.

Cheers, Joe

[BeerBudgetRacing]

I hate to say it but I usually LFB on starts and drop the brake at the green. But at Willow last March I didn't use that technique, and instead, jabbed the brakes hard instead of going for the clutch on the upshift. Pretty sure a couple of guys behind me had to clean out their drawers.

**** happens....

Surprise !

[DaveW]

My only serious try at left-foot braking was when I rented Steve Jenks' spare sequential-shift MZR VD for a test day and a few races in 2019 while Citation was rebuilding my car from the 2018 WG wreck.

My problem was my "muscle-memory" of using the clutch for every shift. Of course I wasn't doing that in the VD, but I had a heck of a time not having my left foot, which was on the brake pedal, acting like it was on the clutch and pushing the brake pedal with every shift. It took me at least a dozen sessions in the car before I was able to retrain my left foot to not do that.

[Spengo]

I am surprised to read that so many drivers much faster and more experienced than me don't use left foot braking at all and use the clutch to shift. I was under the impression that I should drive these cars like a go kart and have my left foot always on brake duty outside the pits, shifting clutchlessly like a motorcycle or shifter kart by lifting on the throttle for upshifts and blipping the throttle under braking for downshifts. I've never accidentally hit the brakes rather than the clutch because, well, I don't use the clutch at all. The transmission seems to want to pop into the next gear with this method and the pedal box is set up for this with the brake pedal equally accessible to my left or right foot, at least on my 30 years newer VD. Hewland supports this method and says the faster the shift, the less wear on your dogs there will be, though they do say clutch stab instead of throttle lift/stab is also good. https://www.hewland.com/faq/ So far my dogs still look great.

[Rick Kirchner]

muscle memory is a very difficult thing to overcome.

its also why the military trains so realistically - because your muscle memory takes over under stress.

I took my FF school in early '87. at the time, I'd only been driving stick shift street cars for about 5 years. No kart or MC experience.

Then I drove various over-sychronized street cars for 12 years before I started racing. Its been 1000's of hours of one kind of training vs barely 100 hours of the other....

[Spengo]

Makes sense of course, why change what's working? I have always had at least one manual street car but I also drove bikes and karts a lot before I ever sat in a racecar so it was natural to me to just combine the bike/kart dog box technique with the H pattern of the car shifter. Doesn't make any difference when you're on your game either way I am sure but I do like the ability to manipulate both throttle and brake at the same time.

[t walgamuth]

Hello All,

This is my first post here, so feel free to direct me to older posts if this has been covered. I have not found it thus far.

I am new to HF racing, having just purchased a '69 Merlyn Mk11A a few months back. I have run one race with it, and have some learning and adjustment to do. I do love the car though.

I am coming from GT racing, and when I got into my FF, I was very surprised to find that I barely fit. I am 5'10" at most and about 175lbs. We pushed the pedals forward and the seat back as far as we can, and I am ok on overall length now. The issue is foot clearance.

I am generally a size 10.5 / 44, and am wearing undersized shoes to drive. With the small shoes I have room to heal toe and just barely clear the upper cross member with my toes.

Here is the question part:

I am an fan of left foot braking and think in this car, it would benefit me personally a lot. However, my foot will never fit underneath the steering shaft. I am wondering if anyone has modified these vintage FFs to allow for left foot braking. Either by fabricating a special pedal mod or perhaps with a mod to the steering shaft. The reasons not to do this are obvious, but if someone has had some success here, I would love to know what they did.

I am wearing a size 43 shoe, so these are not giant feet I am driving with.

Thank you!

Ben

I plan to use a wrestling shoe. It is nearly same size as barefoot. left foot braking is very helpful when a fast right is followed by a tight left foot. The brakes pull the around a bit and wooooooie you really turn.

[DaveW]

I am surprised to read that so many drivers much faster and more experienced than me don't use left foot braking at all and use the clutch to shift...

It's a combination of things that keep me shifting with the clutch:
o I am still using the Lobro CV's which are not as strong as the tripod joints. I broke one trying to shift clutchless.
o The Staffs box, AFAIK, does not shift as easily clutchless as the Hewlands.
o I have a very high mechanical sensitivity, and don't like to feel the slight shudder I got while shifting clutchless.
o When I had the Pinto I occasionally power-shifted (full throttle during a shift with the clutch) to gain a few feet on the track.
o My dog rings last for many (10+) years (not saying they won't with proper clutchless shifting).

Anyway, I have not found that shifting with a slight clutch disengagement costs me any speed or time, so out of habit, I'll keep using that technique.

[Pdx2sxm]

From a purely mechanical point of view, I find thrust bearings last longer when you stay off the clutch.

[Steve Davis]

Or worse yet stomping on the brake when trying to use the clutch!

I agree.. I can LFB in my old car as well as my Vortech.. but on more than one occasion, I have 'forgotten' just where my LF WAS.. and hit the 'last pedal used' instead of the 'next pedal needed'

If you're going to do it, DON'T FORGET! The closeness of the pedals in a formula car as opposed to a production based car.
Steve, FV80

[Peter Olivola]

I agree.. I can LFB in my old car as well as my Vortech.. but on more than one occasion, I have 'forgotten' just where my LF WAS.. and hit the 'last pedal used' instead of the 'next pedal needed'

If you're going to do it, DON'T FORGET! The closeness of the pedals in a formula car as opposed to a production based car.
Steve, FV80

Haven't driven many current production cars, eh, Steve?

[Steve Davis]

Haven't driven many current production cars, eh, Steve?

You are CORRECT.. Never driven a "CURRENT" production car at any time in my Club Racing career. Only a few 'once was' production cars .. and even those were MANY years ago.
Steve