Runoffs

[sauce_racer]

Did I miss it or are we avoiding the annual Runoffs thread? Hospital has been busy this week so I'm missing most everything...


Meg Sauce-Grenier

[Garey Guzman]

I think you are forging the path for us peaking in through the window. Hopefully some participants will give us some good info!

[Lotus7]

well, we're in FC but rooting for friends in FF

Mateo showed up today, sans any practice;
Kotyk has his car pretty much sorted now;

only to find Kautz nearly 5mph faster than Kotyk, 8mph than no-draft Mateo, 6+mph on Fergusson

wow

[sauce_racer]

well, we're in FC but rooting for friends in FF

Mateo showed up today, sans any practice;
Kotyk has his car pretty much sorted now;

only to find Kautz nearly 5mph faster than Kotyk, 8mph than no-draft Mateo, 6+mph on Fergusson

wow

How's FC doing? I heard LaRue went home but I didn't know why or how everyone else's week is going.

Wow 5 mph without a draft?

What issues was Kotyk having?

I'm so late to the Runoffs party this year it's not even funny.

[CGOffroad]

Been watching the results on FF. Seems like the majority of cars that are in that class this year are Pipers. What is the story on engines in all the cars? Honda? If not, which ones are running the Kent ?

[Lotus7]

Been watching the results on FF. Seems like the majority of cars that are in that class this year are Pipers. What is the story on engines in all the cars? Honda? If not, which ones are running the Kent ?

Kotyk has a Kent, Kautz and Mateo Honda's; not sure of the others.

Didnt say Kautz had no draft, said Mateo didn't.
Kautz' second fastest trap speed was fully 5mph less, so yeah, maybe the draft of the century?

[R. Pare]

How's FC doing? I heard LaRue went home but I didn't know why or how everyone else's week is going.
.

John's older brother down in Florida is doing badly, so he and Sharon had to drive home and I took them to the airport this morning.

Give some good thoughts for his brother.

[rockbeau25]

How's FC doing? I heard LaRue went home but I didn't know why or how everyone else's week is going.

We started with 12 and are down to 10. John had an emergency and had to go home. Chris Scharnow was hit by the hurricane and made the correct decision to stay home with his family. Hartley MacDonald blew his engine so substantially that he damaged the frame of his car, was out, then back in again with a rental car that was literally assembled last night by Arms Up. Hartley was then hit by an Atlantic to start qualifying, so some good luck definitely deserves to go his way. The good news is the top of the field is VERY stacked. Minor, Varacins, Tomasi, Johnson, Kiriluk, and Allaer have all been trading fast laps and all have a shot at winning. Myself, Eade, Rocco, and Hartley MacDonald have all been battling issues since we rolled out of the trailer.

[sauce_racer]

Kotyk has a Kent, Kautz and Mateo Honda's; not sure of the others.

Didnt say Kautz had no draft, said Mateo didn't.
Kautz' second fastest trap speed was fully 5mph less, so yeah, maybe the draft of the century?

Sorry, I can't read apparently.

That's unfortunate about LaRue, sending prayers their way. Here's hoping Chris and his family are okay all things considered with the hurricane. As for Hartley that is terrible luck. Hopefully it turns around for him and the race is better.

[Lotus7]

As for Hartley that is terrible luck. Hopefully it turns around for him and the race is better.

unconfirmed but strong story is that Hartley has chosen to retire from racing and is selling items out of his trailer before even leaving Road America

[E1pix]

John's older brother down in Florida is doing badly, so he and Sharon had to drive home and I took them to the airport this morning.

Give some good thoughts for his brother.

Sorry to hear, and sending Best Wishes to the LaRue’s.

Racing can’t get enough players in it like John is.

[stonebridge20]

I guess Kotyk's Dad took my advice on the best car and engine package for RA after all.

What a dog fight.

[E1pix]

WHAT A GREAT RACE, the ‘70s all over again!!!

Best FF Runoffs in decades, to my memory. Not sharing details to ruin it for the rerun stragglers (wink), but the race was flat AWESOME!

Is Kotyk’s the John Robinson DB6, or…?

(50th Anniversary of our late friend Eddie Miller’s second Runoffs win, hope he was watching from up there)

[stonebridge20]

[QUOTE=E1pix;668599

Is Kotyk’s the John Robinson DB6, or…?


No.

[sauce_racer]

That is unfortunate to hear about Hartley. Hopefully he will re-consider and give it one more chance. Racing hurts sometimes. Sadly nobody is immune to it. Maybe this is a sign for Hartley to go back to FF!!

What a race for Kotyk! So excited to see a Kent powered Swift up front again! He was running Bill Valet's old DB6 which I think is now Jim Little's DB6? I can't keep things straight. Unfortunate ending for Burns. Hoping Teddy is okay and that they can get the car repaired for next year.

But either way, what a great race! This is what FF racing is all about and I can't wait to get back out in mine. Unfortunately that may not be until next Summer or Fall with some of our current commitments. I guess that means maybe its time for a ground up and maybe even convincing Jeremy to drive it for me until then.

Looking forward to more racing this weekend!

Meg Sauce-Grenier

[Purple Frog]

Word is all three engines are being pulled in impound...

[John Nesbitt]

Word is all three engines are being pulled in impound...

Pulling/disassembling/measuring is pretty normal in Runoffs impound. If you are a podium finisher, you should expect to take your engine home in boxes.

On edit: In addition, finishers 4 through 6 are held outside. If one of the podium cars fails, one of the outside cars moves in and is torn down. (In certain classes/years, the joke was that the way to a first place result was to finish seventh. Because the first 6 cars would likely fail inspection.)

On further edit: There is a bit of a sliding scale. If you are a podium finisher in Group Last on Sunday, you will likely get a more cursory inspection than if you are in one of the Friday/Saturday groups.

[stonebridge20]

Word is all three engines are being pulled in impound...

Good.

[billtebbutt]

bt

[E1pix]

Here Ya go, Bud:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FwqAk6...IHJ1bm9mZnM%3D

Note below the video are already screens for tomorrow and Sunday.

[John Nesbitt]

@billtebbutt If you are asking about the FF video, SCCA typically posts all the race videos not long after the event concludes.

[reidhazelton]

Rumor has it Kotyk got DQ'd for blocking. Can anyone verify that?

[rockbeau25]

I guess Kotyk's Dad took my advice on the best car and engine package for RA after all.

What a dog fight.

Putting your rival in the wall also helps [emoji6]

Rumor has it Kotyk got DQ'd for blocking. Can anyone verify that?

Correct, Reid. Massive congrats to Tazio, he drove absolutely out of his mind today and is a deserving champion. I’m gutted for Teddy, he did not put a wheel wrong either, and to lose his shot at victory after a punk move like that is such a gut punch.

[Steve Davis]

FYI.... I just got back from the Driver Information Room.. and the FF Finish order remains 'under review'. The officially posted results still show Kotyk as the winner. The T11 1/2 incident is being looked at, but no decision has yet been made. They are presuming that, regardless of the final decision, it is highly likely there will be an appeal. No one present there knew for sure if there was a protest in play now, or it was a CSA. The Race Director had just left DI when I arrived, so I got my info from the staff that was present instead of the RD himself. The SOM's should rule today, but any appeal would be 'sometime later'.. but SCCA makes every effort to resolve anything that happens at the Runoffs - including appeals, before the end of the event.

I watched the YT race as it unfolded, including that last lap incident. It was not at all clear to me whether Kotyk made a MOVE, or whether he just positioned himself such that there was NO ROOM for Burns on the inside. I'm a long way from calling it a 'punk move' by Kotyk. The TAIL of Kotyk's car was damaged. Nothing else that I could see.

Tazio DID drive a great race.. as did all the other members of the group.. but he hasn't inherited the win just yet.

Steve, FV80

[Garey Guzman]

FYI, the YouTube video of the stream is posted, you can watch it here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwqAk6oMvnA&t=886s

[Steve Davis]

FYI, the YouTube video of the stream is posted, you can watch it here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwqAk6oMvnA&t=886s

The YT video is available 'as the event is in progress' on the SCCA CHANNEL. It is some 30 seconds behind REAL TIME tho'. It doesn't 'get posted' after the race.

The video is continuous play all day. Reviews are available 'instantly', but backing up to see them HOSES the timing of the incoming stream, so I recommend NOT backing up till the race you're interested in is over. Depending on your internet speed, you MIGHT be able to open a second window/tab for a review.

I should also add that the stream often 'degrades' the video quality to the point that names and times just aren't readable any more. You can drop to the bottom of the window and click on SETTINGS to find video quality and click to (at least try to) 'upgrade' the quality. Even on slow internet here at the track I am able to view 720p which is adequate quality.

Steve

[racerjon1]

The video is continuous play all day. Reviews are available 'instantly', but backing up to see them HOSES the timing of the incoming stream, so I recommend NOT backing up till the race you're interested in is over.

Granted my internet speed in the media room here at Road America is pretty good, but I'm having no issues if I use the "live" button on the bottom of the screen to go back to . If I try to "drag" the slider to live then yes it can be off, but the "live" seems to work better.

[Garey Guzman]

The YT video is available 'as the event is in progress' on the SCCA CHANNEL. It is some 30 seconds behind REAL TIME tho'. It doesn't 'get posted' after the race.

The video is continuous play all day. Reviews are available 'instantly', but backing up to see them HOSES the timing of the incoming stream, so I recommend NOT backing up till the race you're interested in is over. Depending on your internet speed, you MIGHT be able to open a second window/tab for a review.

I should also add that the stream often 'degrades' the video quality to the point that names and times just aren't readable any more. You can drop to the bottom of the window and click on SETTINGS to find video quality and click to (at least try to) 'upgrade' the quality. Even on slow internet here at the track I am able to view 720p which is adequate quality.

Steve

I guess I could have wrote "the video of yesterday's stream is posted". I was referencing the race being talked about, not the live stream. The video description shows the start times for each event in the uploaded video.

[Steve Davis]

OK. I just left Driver Info. There WAS an RFA (REQUEST for action) from the Chief Steward for potential blocking by Kotyk. The SOMS heard the RFA and Decided to remove Kotyk from his finishing position and put him BEHIND Burns. Burns also filed a protest against Kotyk for not leaving racing room. The SOM found that Kotyk 'tracked out at 11B to successfully 'block Burns' path .. then Burns had enough room to move back left to pass Kotyk on the left... Kotyk moved BACK to the left to block, catching Burns' tire and causing him to contact the wall on the right side of the track.

End result, Burns finishes 'last running car' and Kotyk finishes BEHIND Burns.

SO.. yep. Tazio is IN. Due to the wind, there were no results sheets posting outside and I didn't go inside to try to hunt one down. Seemed pretty clear from the COA's that were posted outside..with a LOT of TAPE

Calvin also filed a protest against Mateo for the T5 incident. SOM decision declared EQUAL responsibility for the contact and gave them each a POINT on their license.

Steve, FV80
Watched some great racing on YouTube yesterday and today, but have also witnessed a LOT of carnage in these races. Seems 'more than usual' for some reason.. some MAJOR pile ups.

[John Nesbitt]

Final results are posted: https://cdn.connectsites.net/user_fi...20Official.pdf

[teamwisconsin]

No judgments about driving standards from me, but I gotta say I was super impressed at the strength of the wires on the SCCA mandated FIA rain light to hold that piece of bodywork on Kotyk’s car for the last few corners.

[sauce_racer]

OK. I just left Driver Info. There WAS an RFA (REQUEST for action) from the Chief Steward for potential blocking by Kotyk. The SOMS heard the RFA and Decided to remove Kotyk from his finishing position and put him BEHIND Burns. Burns also filed a protest against Kotyk for not leaving racing room. The SOM found that Kotyk 'tracked out at 11B to successfully 'block Burns' path .. then Burns had enough room to move back left to pass Kotyk on the left... Kotyk moved BACK to the left to block, catching Burns' tire and causing him to contact the wall on the right side of the track.

End result, Burns finishes 'last running car' and Kotyk finishes BEHIND Burns.

SO.. yep. Tazio is IN. Due to the wind, there were no results sheets posting outside and I didn't go inside to try to hunt one down. Seemed pretty clear from the COA's that were posted outside..with a LOT of TAPE

Calvin also filed a protest against Mateo for the T5 incident. SOM decision declared EQUAL responsibility for the contact and gave them each a POINT on their license.

Steve, FV80
Watched some great racing on YouTube yesterday and today, but have also witnessed a LOT of carnage in these races. Seems 'more than usual' for some reason.. some MAJOR pile ups.

While I'm normally in favor of SCCA upholding the rulebook I'm struggling with this one.

Several instances in this race it could've gotten really ugly with how close the racing was. It didn't get ugly. With the exception of Naranjo and Kautz the front pack had a clean race. They gave lots of room and were fairly respectful. I don't know a lot of drivers that would give that much space and be that clean with one another for that many laps. I also don't know a driver that wouldn't have blocked as hard as he/she possibly could've on the last lap of the Runoffs.

Another issue, if anyone watched the GT1 race (with only 4 cars) you'll see extremely blatant blocking by the car that ends up finishing second. I mean not just one move right then back left, but back and forth multiple times down the straight aways. Was anything said? Was anything done about it? Did the chief steward get involved in that one? I'm guessing not...? With all the dirty driving thats been happening (not just at this year's runoffs) where is the consistency? Is the same chief steward sitting there watching every race this intently? I have a very hard time believing that he/she is.

I've seen far more dangerous stunts pulled and nothing done even though it violates something in the GCR and a protest is launched.

Where is the consistency?

Glad nobody is hurt. That at the end of the day is the most important thing.

Meg Sauce-Grenier

[E1pix]

Hi, Meg:

I feel the very same way in general.

We re-watched the race, and the incident several times — and agree with their decision.

But I also agree that the lack of consistency is a bit bewildering. Perhaps the GT1 blocks essentially being inconsequential to the outcome played a part in not punishing that incident — nor did that lead to a results-altering crash.

Kotyk made at least three moves to block within a second or two before the incident. Without the last two, it very likely wouldn’t have happened.

I suspect that similar blocks done before 5 on that final lap didn’t help, if there were any defenses given like “It was only the one time.” Even Greg Creamer (whom I know and respect tremendously) suggested the backstretch moves were “blocking.”

Just thoughts from a heavily-seasoned observer, we were not there. But the telecast is worth a look.

Worth noting is under the same circumstances, absolutely, a lot of drivers would have done the very same thing. I suspect onboard cameras were also viewed, and showed some clarity impossible to see on the telecast.

None of this is meant to ruffle feathers; not anyone’s nor yours, especially as Kotyk thanked Jeremy in the victor’s interview.


We watched it Live on Friday, but only on our phone. What I missed Live was that Nathan Down was in the race, he’s a regular winner in Colorado vintage racing in a Lotus 69, by no means a young gun, and a Runoffs rookie to my knowledge. Shame he didn’t get his Bronze interview.

The entire final podium were rookies, which to me is very encouraging.

As things turned out (after the penalty), if Down had been 0.0169 sec. further ahead, he would have been Colorado’s second-ever FF National Champ — almost exactly fifty years to the day since our dear friend Eddie Miller won his second Title.

I also heard the reference that Kotyk had (temporarily) become the first five-time FF National Champion.

But after the penalty, Jonathan is still tied at four Titles — with this forum’s very own Dave Weitzenhof.

[Richard Hybels]

https://youtu.be/-lgZSmKWXO8

incident is at 30:00 minutes

Did I miss it or are we avoiding the annual Runoffs thread? Hospital has been busy this week so I'm missing most everything...


Meg Sauce-Grenier

[TimH]

https://youtu.be/-lgZSmKWXO8

incident is at 30:00 minutes

Much more clear what happened than from the SCCA feed.

[CheckeredFlag]

https://youtu.be/-lgZSmKWXO8

incident is at 30:00 minutes

Oh, yeah, that's a block.

[swiftdrivr]

As much as I like seeing a Swift / kent in front, I agree with the steward's call. After the way he drove approaching 5, I can't say I was surprised that there was a protest about the incident entering Canada.


PS: Thanks for posting the video. Wish I had that kind of car control!

[DaveW]

https://youtu.be/-lgZSmKWXO8

incident is at 30:00 minutes

Yup - definitely deserved a penalty - lucky the outcome wasn't MUCH worse.

[Richard Hybels]

[QUOTE=stonebridge20;668598]I guess Kotyk's Dad took my advice on the best car and engine package for RA after all.

Stonebridge I believe you have a connection to Jeremy Treadway? I was in Topeka in 2008 and he was in a DB-6. I was hanging with Porter who got the win in the last corner over Kasmits in the Vestal.