VD Fluids what's best?

[redcar9]

I'm getting closer to putting this car back together. I'm not sure what is the best brand/ type of fluid to use as this is my first non-production car.

1. LD200 4 speed gear box w/ reverse
2. 2.0L pinto
3. Brakes
4. Coolant

What are the change intervals on all of this stuff?

Going to be running at Mid-ohio in the spring and headed to barber motorsports park at the end of October.

[DaveW]

I'm getting closer to putting this car back together. I'm not sure what is the best brand/ type of fluid to use as this is my first non-production car...
What are the change intervals on all of this stuff?
Going to be running at Mid-ohio in the spring and headed to barber motorsports park at the end of October.

1. LD200 4 speed gear box w/ reverse - I use Valvoline Synthetic 75W90 and I'm still using the CWP that came with my Staffs trans in 1994. I change lube when I change gears - if I drained often, I used 2/3 drained (filtered) and 1/3 fresh lube.
2. 2.0L pinto - I used 10W30 Valvoline VR1 full synthetic. Change ~every 10 hours of use.
3. Brakes - I use Amsoil Dominator DOT4. Very good, easy on seals, and reasonably priced. Might be overkill if you want to save a few $. Most modern DOT4 BF's like Valvoline DOT4 are also good - check the dry and wet boiling points for more info (see link below). Change when you need to bleed or twice/season.
4. Coolant - I use Valvoline Pro-V Racing Super Coolant at their recommended 10% concentration w/ 90% distilled water - change once/year.

BF comparison and other good brake info (updated January 2024):
https://www.lelandwest.com/brake-flu...ison-chart.cfm

[redcar9]

1. LD200 4 speed gear box w/ reverse - I use Valvoline Synthetic 75W90 and I'm still using the CWP that came with my Staffs trans in 1994. I change lube when I change gears - if I drained often, I used 2/3 drained (filtered) and 1/3 fresh lube.
2. 2.0L pinto - I used 10W30 Valvoline VR1 full synthetic. Change ~every 10 hours of use.
3. Brakes - I use Amsoil Dominator DOT4. Very good, easy on seals, and reasonably priced. Might be overkill if you want to save a few $. Most modern DOT4 BF's like Valvoline DOT4 are also good - check the dry and wet boiling points for more info (see link below). Change when you need to bleed or twice/season.
4. Coolant - I use Valvoline Pro-V Racing Super Coolant at their recommended 10% concentration w/ 90% distilled water - change once/year.

BF comparison and other good brake info (updated January 2024):
https://www.lelandwest.com/brake-flu...ison-chart.cfm

Thank you so much for helping me! This has been a vertical learning curve!

[Lotus7]

A lot of sanctioning bodies and race tracks will say they don't allow traditional engine coolants, on the argument that if spilled in a crash, it makes the track super slick, and is hard to wash away.
That said, I can't remember the last time any tech guy ever checked...

Variations of water wetter are legal and fully functional as coolant and water pump lube, but wont stop your system from freezing in Ohio :-)

[CGOffroad]

I will offer a variation to what Dave has recommended as engine oil. In Arizona I think the vast majority of people with Kent or Pinto engines are running a 20W50 racing oil. Valvoline VR1 is probably the most widely used. Regardless of which engine oil manufacturer you use, make sure you purchase a 'Racing Oil'. These will have higher levels of ZDDP in the oil and you want that. VR1 is a great oil and it is readily available in various automotive stores.

Depending on the oil pump you have on your car, the Pinto can have low oil pressures when exiting track and car is at full temp. Running a 20W50 can possibly help with keeping oil pressures up just a bit. AZ obviously has some warmer climates, and this plays into peoples decisions for engine oil viscosities.

[kea]

Here is what we use in our shop.
LD200 -- Redline Shockproof-light
2 Ltr. Pinto -- Redline 40wt. racing
Brakes -- Cartel 580 (580 dry boiling point), DOT4
Coolant -- Distilled water with Redline Water Wetter
Drain coolant if kept in an unheated space during the winter, or drain some, add anti-freeze, run to circulate. Come Spring, drain and start anew

[Charlie Schmidt]

Dave

Do you have a current source for the Pro-V coolant additive?
I used to use it, but a couple of years ago it seemed to disappear
Not on their website, or at the usual suppliers or, am I just blind?

[Redawgleader]

Our team uses these guidelines:
- every car and every situation is different, so there is no universal 'best'.
- we are on a budget, so we look for a balance of value and performance
- change fluids often

We run two cars with MZR 2.0L engines and Hewland JL201 gearboxes
Brake fluid: Wilwood 600+ to avoid boiling.
Clutch fluid: Napa Dot 3. Specifically advised by renowned clutch specialist to NOT use high-temp fluids in the clutch
Engine: ANY of the top-brand full synthetic oils that we can buy in bulk and on sale such as: Mobil 1, Rotella, Penzoil, Quaker State. We don't care about the winter viscosity rating. We aim for a summer viscosity rating that prevents low oil pressure during the hottest operating conditions were our oil gets well over 200 F. In a newer engine that can be 30, in an older engine that can be 40. Higher viscosity is not necessarily better as it creates friction related heat. We buy in bulk and on sale, hence the variety of brands we will use. We believe it's more important to change often than to buy fancy expensive stuff or be loyal to one brand. High temperatures significantly reduce the effective lifespan of engine oil. We DO NOT use diesel engine oil as it has very high detergent levels that can 'over clean' the cylinder walls and rings and result in loss of compression.
Gearbox: Again, any major brand of full synthetic 75W-90 that we can buy in bulk at a favorable price. Change every season.

[DaveW]

Dave

Do you have a current source for the Pro-V coolant additive?
I used to use it, but a couple of years ago it seemed to disappear
Not on their website, or at the usual suppliers or, am I just blind?

I checked again and the one site that said they had it in a search said it was out of stock once I got on their site. So I think it is, at least for now, not available.

Too bad - it's the best I've found for eliminating corrosion and not making a mess inside the cooling system.

[DaveW]

...Clutch fluid: Napa Dot 3. Specifically advised by renowned clutch specialist to NOT use high-temp fluids in the clutch...

I think the issue there is lubricity and master/slave seal life. That's why I use the Amsoil (used to use Castrol LMA/DOT4) - they are experts on lubricity, etc. Some BF's, especially the low-viscosity ones, are suspect in that regard.

[BeerBudgetRacing]

Mobil1 for Turbo Diesel engines contains very high levels of ZDDP.

As was explained to me by Doug Learned (TDI):
If you experience low pressure coming off the track, your oil pump is not working correctly.
In the 'old days' when pintos ran in the pro series, they accepted this drop in pressure because they ran a smaller pressure section on the pump to save that 1/4 hp. But they also rebuilt their motors every weekend.

For us weekend warriors you need to that pressure to remain. Fix the pump.

In the mild climate of SoCal I ran the 5-40 TurboDiesel oil. https://www.oreillyauto.com/detail/c...and=true&pos=1

Recommend you talk to your engine builder and use what they recommen.

[Redawgleader]

Mobil1 for Turbo Diesel engines contains very high levels of ZDDP.

As was explained to me by Doug Learned (TDI):
If you experience low pressure coming off the track, your oil pump is not working correctly.
In the 'old days' when pintos ran in the pro series, they accepted this drop in pressure because they ran a smaller pressure section on the pump to save that 1/4 hp. But they also rebuilt their motors every weekend.

For us weekend warriors you need to that pressure to remain. Fix the pump.

In the mild climate of SoCal I ran the 5-40 TurboDiesel oil. https://www.oreillyauto.com/detail/c...and=true&pos=1

Recommend you talk to your engine builder and use what they recommen.

Our oil pump was built by Doug. But even his excellent pumps have a pressure differential when running hot oil Vs. cold. So we pay close attention to viscosity w.r.t. oil temperature.

Be careful running diesel oil in a gas engine. Diesel oils have much higher detergent levels specifically to deal with the volume of soot that collects in the crankcase of a diesel engine. Gas engines don't have that much soot, and so don't need the detergent. Some experts claim that the detergent can cause stripping of the oil in the upper section of the piston rings in a gas engine, and may impact compression. Regardless of whether the latter is true or not, the extra detergent is not necessary. Especially if oil is changed frequently.

[DaveW]

...If you experience low pressure coming off the track, your oil pump is not working correctly.
In the 'old days' when pintos ran in the pro series, they accepted this drop in pressure because they ran a smaller pressure section on the pump to save that 1/4 hp. But they also rebuilt their motors every weekend....

I beg to differ:
When I had a QS Pinto engine, we usually had ~10 psi oil pressure coming off the track at idle. And in 20 years of that scenario I never had an engine failure. Sandy always commented when it was in for a rebuild how good everything (bearings, etc.) looked.

[Redawgleader]

I beg to differ:
When I had a QS Pinto engine, we usually had ~10 psi oil pressure coming off the track at idle. And in 20 years of that scenario I never had an engine failure. Sandy always commented when it was in for a rebuild how good everything (bearings, etc.) looked.

I don't think we differ. There is no universal answer to "what is low?" Depends on what 'low' means to you, me, or anyone. For me it means < 20 psi.

[BeerBudgetRacing]

Our oil pump was built by Doug. But even his excellent pumps have a pressure differential when running hot oil Vs. cold. So we pay close attention to viscosity w.r.t. oil temperature.

Be careful running diesel oil in a gas engine. Diesel oils have much higher detergent levels specifically to deal with the volume of soot that collects in the crankcase of a diesel engine. Gas engines don't have that much soot, and so don't need the detergent. Some experts claim that the detergent can cause stripping of the oil in the upper section of the piston rings in a gas engine, and may impact compression. Regardless of whether the latter is true or not, the extra detergent is not necessary. Especially if oil is changed frequently.

Doug convinced me to rebuild with a properly sized pressure section and never experienced extreme low pressure again - even on a hot day with temps at 250F. It was a normal occurrence before. The pump I had was specifically built old 'spec'.

We circulate enough oil through these engines, run a dry sump, and higher pressures than stock. I'm not certain you can go wrong with any modern synthetic. Gas or Diesel. I went high ZDDP because of the valve terrain. I as figured the turbo on the TDs is probably more finicky than my old pinto tractor motor Detergent may not be necessary but likely doesn't hurt. Some Diesel oils contain solvents which you want to avoid.

I was researching oil recommendations for my wife's RR TDI and found that the M1 TD oil was highly recommended for older LR/RR v8 gas cars, but the newer ones use a special Castrol with the LR logo. Apparently there are tracers in it specific to LR.

As I said. Do what your engine builder recommends.

[BeerBudgetRacing]

I beg to differ:
When I had a QS Pinto engine, we usually had ~10 psi oil pressure coming off the track at idle. And in 20 years of that scenario I never had an engine failure. Sandy always commented when it was in for a rebuild how good everything (bearings, etc.) looked.

I don't think we differ. There is no universal answer to "what is low?" Depends on what 'low' means to you, me, or anyone. For me it means < 20 psi.

I was getting down to 5 psi. People kept telling me it was normal.

[Rick Kirchner]

I was getting down to 5 psi. People kept telling me it was normal.

for me, that was due to the iron head. i had a wide pressure section already, and my hot OP was low single digits.

Put the aluminum head on, which has bronze bushings for the cam, and the OP was over 15 hot at idle.

I've used M1 10W40 bike oil and the Turbo diesel oil for the past several years. the bike oil is readily available and has high ZDDP oils, almost as much as their expensive racing oils. I cannot find the Turbo Diesel oil at Wal Mart anymore. In the winter, when I top off I just use M1 5W30.

Brake fluid wise, I've had great luck with ATE. too bad we can't get the blue product anymore. I think the gold stuff is Super 200 or something like that. In the clutch I just use whatever is cheap.

[billtebbutt]

An old friend (back in our MG racing days in the 80s) used to say "....Even if the gauge is reading zero when you come off the track, you still have 14.7psi atmospheric.....". Now we did blow up a fair number of motors early on until we figured out the tricks to building a better 1.8l

I've never had a Kent that didn't go to zero or near zero after a session. Clutch in and a few blips of throttle has always solved that problem for me.

best,
bt

[DaveW]

I was getting down to 5 psi. People kept telling me it was normal.

I think there were a few times I saw that - never hurt the engine.

[redcar9]

A lot of sanctioning bodies and race tracks will say they don't allow traditional engine coolants, on the argument that if spilled in a crash, it makes the track super slick, and is hard to wash away.
That said, I can't remember the last time any tech guy ever checked...

Variations of water wetter are legal and fully functional as coolant and water pump lube, but wont stop your system from freezing in Ohio :-)

Yea, I'm just trying to learn the car and do a few track days before an actual vintage race or SCCA race.
What type of anti-freeze should I use?

[SteveG]

Yea, I'm just trying to learn the car and do a few track days before an actual vintage race or SCCA race.
What type of anti-freeze should I use?

For racing, none. Distilled water and Redline Water Wetter. (Most sanctioning bodies don't allow anti-freeze, too hard to clean up)
For storage in the winter where it will freeze, either a drained dry cooling system or whatever is needed for the temperatures you expect to see. Change it out with the above come race season.

Steve