Not sure you should use the words "used to". Just think about the google ads that show up when you mention something in front of Alexa or near your iPhone.
Not sure you should use the words "used to". Just think about the google ads that show up when you mention something in front of Alexa or near your iPhone.
----------
In memory of Joe Stimola and Glenn Phillips
[Captain Obvious]The corners know where you are. All this does is shorten the communication links needed for the Operating Steward to make a decision[\Captain Obvious]Originally Posted by BeerBudgetRacing
We used to call that "big brother"
Peter Olivola
(polivola@gmail.com)
Not when you go off-track out of sight!! This seems to fix that - though I don't wish to test it... LOL
It also avoids confusion trying to identify which car is off in a barrier and partly obscured... which otherwise can easily take a lap or more to resolve...
Again [Captain Obvious] I was responding to the aversion to being under constant observation. Of course, your points just extend that. [\Captain Obvious]
Peter Olivola
(polivola@gmail.com)
I installed the FT-RD and powered it up and everything worked.I then tried to power it off and it wouldn’t power down.
I called Flagtronics and they said they needed to do a firmware update and they will have that available at the Runoff’s.
You have to disconnect the small connector that goes to the auxiliary battery or it will just continue to display.
So much for having it ready ?
Tim MinorFc88
Tim Minor
At least the previous versions (the original single unit) will continue to display for about 5 minutes.. or about the time it takes to run the battery down. In my case, I DISCONNECTED the line to the battery (a simple connector) so that it DIES when the ignition switch is shut off. I will need to reconnect it for any events I attend that actually have the FT 'in play'.. only the HST's or Runoffs. The battery is there to keep the FT unit functioning in the event of a crash with loss of power to the unit. It would allow the signal to continue to race control for an additional ~5 minutes after the crash. You can shut it down manually by pressing BOTH buttons for about 5 seconds .. or maybe 10? I disconnected it because turning the switch on activated FT IN MY SHOP - continuously keeping the battery pretty exhausted. Disconnecting it allows the battery to retain at least some of its charge.I installed the FT-RD and powered it up and everything worked.I then tried to power it off and it wouldn’t power down.
I called Flagtronics and they said they needed to do a firmware update and they will have that available at the Runoff’s.
You have to disconnect the small connector that goes to the auxiliary battery or it will just continue to display.
So much for having it ready ?
Tim MinorFc88
Steve, FV80
Steve, FV80
Racing since '73 - FV since '77
This is very new hardware that is not used by only a few competitors and very few sanction bodies. It is going to take a little time to debug it. Comes with the territory for early adopters.So much for having it ready ?
Tim MinorFc88
Brian
I installed the FT-RD and powered it up and everything worked.I then tried to power it off and it wouldn’t power down.
I called Flagtronics and they said they needed to do a firmware update and they will have that available at the Runoff’s.
You have to disconnect the small connector that goes to the auxiliary battery or it will just continue to display.
So much for having it ready ?
Tim MinorFc88I want to have one in my car for next season, but that sort of teething issue is why I'm waiting until winter to buy one. Hopefully after debugging during this Runoffs it will be pretty close to a "final" version.
Dave Weitzenhof
I read his comment as they shipped a product they knew didn't work with we will fix it later. That isn't debugging...
I installed the FT-RD and powered it up and everything worked.I then tried to power it off and it wouldn’t power down.
I called Flagtronics and they said they needed to do a firmware update and they will have that available at the Runoff’s.
You have to disconnect the small connector that goes to the auxiliary battery or it will just continue to display.
So much for having it ready ?
Tim MinorFc88
WTF! I'm working on my install now. The battery is going to be under my seat, so based on this I need to remove the seat and fire bottle cover to turn it off until the Runoffs? What the hell needs to happen to waive the requirement for this years runoff?. This is beyond stupid at this point.
It doesn't turn off when you press a button (or both buttons) for 5 seconds? Mine does.
----------
In memory of Joe Stimola and Glenn Phillips
May I assume the unit is had wired to the cars electrical system?
If so would not the status of the system battery be irrelevant? When you energize the car you also energize the FT unit. I personally see no need for the battery or the need to turn the FT off. There is no way I am going to remember to turn it off.
If what I have stated is true, then there is no rush to upgrade the software for this one issue.
Brian
The unit is Supposed to power down after 15 minutes,it was Supposed to be turned off manually by holding the Top button for 5 seconds,neither worked.
I’m not against this system,but implementation of this,untested before the Runoff’s is not a good plan in my opinion.
Tim MinorFc88
Tim Minor
I said long ago that it was not ready for prime time.
Now the unfortunate folks that have had to purchase them for the Runoffs are getting screwed.
Come on sending a product out knowing that it will not work properly????
What kind of company is this???
And so it doesn't, what exactly are the negative consequences of this issue is to the normal on track function of this system?
You guys are trying to make an issue out of nothing. Sound like someone is still a little unhappy with the requirement to have the system.
Brian
Gents:
There is safety in numbers. Just say’in
V/r
Iverson
Flagtronics mounting area
Jay have a look at my installation it may work for you.
Hartley MacDonald
2006 Van Dieman RF06
On track, nothing, but,
Vehicle battery run-down overnight, in the trailer traveling, in the shop .... ?
Ian Macpherson
Savannah, GA
Race prep, support, and engineering.
depth perception not obvious, but does that install have adequate knuckle clearance when turning?
Jay have a look at my installation it may work for you.
Ian Macpherson
Savannah, GA
Race prep, support, and engineering.
Why wouldn't shutting off the master switch prevent that? Does the FT have to be wired to have (car-battery) power even with the master off? I shut off the master any time car battery power is not needed.
Dave Weitzenhof
Why wouldn't shutting off the master switch prevent that? Does the FT have to be wired to have (car-battery) power even with the master off? I shut off the master any time car battery power is not needed.
It should be switched through the master
I could see that the FT's battery might be ruined by repeatedly draining with the master off it if you can't shut it off.
Why wouldn't shutting off the master switch prevent that? Does the FT have to be wired to have (car-battery) power even with the master off? I shut off the master any time car battery power is not needed.
Dave Weitzenhof
flagwhat
I am so excited to send in my order for 4 of these for the run offs. Sounds like the $249 price that I heard originally has ballooned to 549?? Really think this is getting ridiculous, between the FIA rainlights and Flagtronics, that is pretty much1K per car for me to swallow. Wonder what the next thing to save us will be.
Brian.
Brian - look at the original FT unit. It is much less expensive than the remote unit and not that large.
Wire it through the master- it has a battery in its harness so even if power is disrupted, you can signal 'ok' if you crash. As I mentioned above, my FT unit shuts off with a 5 second push of a button. Worst case, it drains its in-line battery, but I think it automatically shuts down in thirty minutes.
I continue to be amazed at all the angst over this. It's easy to install in most cars: Yes, some need the remote one, but I bet fewer than you think. It does not have to be in direct line of sight- trust me, you'll see it when it lights up, even peripherally.
More important, when fully utilized it will save track time and make the racing safer for all. Ask anyone who has used the system.
----------
In memory of Joe Stimola and Glenn Phillips
1) Assuming the FT is hardwired to the car (through/using the master switch) .... you do not need the FT supplied battery. I assume the battery is included for installations that are NOT hard wired.
2) A proper built in battery controller/charger will prevent damaging discharge levels. Regardless, since the unit is hard wired, the condition of the battery is not relevant. Note how fully discharged infrequently used laptops always work once you plugin the charger. The quality/condition of the battery is not relevant with the charger plugged in.
3) The FT supplied battery is wired directly to the FT unit and is charged with power supplied by the FT unit. It has NO direct connection to the car's battery system. When you turn off the FT system using buttons. you are disconnecting the hardwire power and the FT supplied battery.
Brian
I’m going to say,this again,I’m not against this system,but when I wait 6 months for it and then install it ( Not Difficult ) then it doesn’t work like it is designed to says to me that it is not ready for prime time.
To mandate this system/unit at the Runoff’s where I have never seen it and it has not been tested and the drivers are not familiar with the new technology is not a good idea.
I will comply with the policy of the Club,but I still think that it is not a good policy.
IMHO
Tim MinorFc88
Tim Minor
The Runoff's is the perfect time to introduce the FT system.
A) The fact that a driver is not familiar with the system should not be an issue. At this time flags are controlling and the FT system is advisory.
B) Code 35 will applications probably be the only time the driver will need to observe the FT system. That will take place under yellow flags, so there should be plenty of driver bandwidth available to handle the situation.
C) The quality and quantity of RC and CS personnel will be the best you will see al year. Probably be staff assign just to the FT integration even at the corner stations. 7-10 days to note any issues with the FT system integration into SCCA operation procedures. Probably a work group assigned just for the integration task.
Brian
Last edited by Hardingfv32; 08.15.24 at 3:12 PM.
Ah... actually no, that's no longer the case (that FT is advisory).
Read the Runoffs Supps. The most restrictive flag condition, be it FT or actual flags held on the corner, will be the flag condition standing.
So pay attention. And READ THE SUPPS.
Me, I'm happy to have had a whole season to get used to it, and wish it had been in use at the Cat Majors.
But I 100% support my fellow drivers that we, those of us in the small-cockpit world, were ignored on our issues with the roll-out of this system. National doesn't care about us, and are happy to watch us leave so they can free up another session of track time.
My statement not agree with the Supps? Please explain? How does most restrictive condition, will be the flag condition standing differ from flags are controlling?
"At this time flags are controlling and the FT system is advisory."
Brian
Per the Runoffs Supps, section 8.2 - Flagtronics
Note also that a valid FT ID number is required for Event and Test Day stickers...For the avoidance of confusion between Flagtronics and actual (cloth) flags displayed at the stations, the more restrictive flag condition shall take precedence...
There is also incomplete mention of electronic sign boards at corner stations. Needs more work, I think, in order to be internally fully consistent and eliminate the remaining confusion...
Tell me you're not going to the Runoffs without telling me you're not going to the Runoffs...just kidding!
brian, 4xus$549x1.39 exchange rate, then add C tax and duty???
foook dat, have them shipped to me, I’ll bring them to Runoffs for you
Ian Macpherson
Savannah, GA
Race prep, support, and engineering.
I guarantee that the use of FT will negatively affect the outcome of at least one Runoffs race, whether it's a mistake from RC, a false display (like Vaughan's checkered flag on the second lap at M-O), or someone ignoring Code 35. The appeals court will be busy.
Mike Beauchamp
RF95 Prototype 2
Get your FIA rain lights here:
www.gyrodynamics.net/product/cartek-fia-rain-light/
A) The Flags are the controlling authority. As long as RC has their flag conditions correct, then any mistake with the FT system should not matter. The drivers need to have this fact clear in their mind while on track. Yes, this requires a little extra bandwidth, but by definition the quality of drivers at this event should not have difficulty with information that is not in agreement.
B) No Code XX during races, VSC only test and qual. A VSC of 45 mph follows a double yellow display. So again, plenty of bandwidth available for the driver to conform to the VSC procedure. The should be repercussions for a driver who cannot get the VSC right.
Brian
If you read the supps, what you wrote in A. IS NOT correct.
From the supps:
FLAGTRONICS
The Flagtronics electronic flag system is required for the classes listed below to enhance driver situational awareness. The Flagtronics system will be used to transmit flag conditions to in-car units and to communicate driver safety alert information back and forth with race control. In-car systems are available for purchase from www.flagtronics.com.
8.1.1. Flagtronics in-car units are required for the following classes: ALL RUNOFFS CLASSES For the avoidance of confusion between Flagtronics and actual (cloth) flags displayed at the stations, the more restrictive flag condition shall take precedence (e.g., Flagtronics shows green, but corner displays yellow flag – the condition for that part of the track should be considered Version 1 July 8, 2024 yellow). To maximize green-flag track time, race control may utilize a Virtual Safety Car (VSC) full course condition during testing and/or qualifying. The VSC procedure is designed to freeze and slow the field to a prescribed maximum speed to allow for expedited course clearing. The VSC condition follows the DOUBLE YELLOW condition rules related to passing. However, unlike a Full Course Caution condition, the field will not bunch up and the gaps between cars will remain consistent. For this event, the VSC condition procedure will be as follows:
8.2.1. Race Control will issue a VSC command to all corner stations via the flag net and to vehicles via Flagtronics.
8.2.2. Corners will display the sign indicating VSC, corner stations with electronic signal boards will display purple, and Flagtronics in-car units will display a purple condition, with instructions guiding the driver to slow to the prescribed speed.
8.2.3. Drivers will have 10 seconds to safely slow their vehicle to the prescribed speed of 45 mph or less.
8.2.4. Drivers are to maintain the prescribed speed throughout the VSC condition. Vehicles violating the speed limit will automatically notify race control through Flagtronics and be subject to penalty.
8.2.5. Once the course is cleared, Race Control will instruct each corner station to wave a blue flag in addition to its VSC sign. This is a signal to drivers that the course will return to green in approximately 10 seconds. The VSC condition still applies until the course returns to green.
8.2.6. At the appropriate time, Race Control will instruct corner stations to remove the VSC signs and blue flags, and Flagtronics will change in-car and electronic sign boards from PURPLE to GREEN, signifying the resumption of racing.
8.3. Because Flagtronics is at this event, information and data may be used as a basis for rules enforcement for all on-track infractions, including but not limited to VSC violations. The 8-digit Flagtronics FT200 serial number must be included in your vehicle garage through MotorsportReg. Participants are encouraged to update the firmware on their FT200 device via the Flagtronics Device Manager software (download at www.flagtronics.com) prior to the event to ensure proper functionality. Event and Test Day stickers will not be issued without a valid Flagtronics serial number on file
At least we know more about why they are so firm on the requirement for this year... they need to sell as many as possible before they consolidate classes and people don't race next year.
amen!!!!i’m going to say,this again,i’m not against this system,but when i wait 6 months for it and then install it ( not difficult ) then it doesn’t work like it is designed to says to me that it is not ready for prime time.
To mandate this system/unit at the runoff’s where i have never seen it and it has not been tested and the drivers are not familiar with the new technology is not a good idea.
I will comply with the policy of the club,but i still think that it is not a good policy.
Imho
tim minorfc88
Flagtronics installation
Ian I was concerned with finger/ knuckle clearance as well. However after 4 races it has not been a problem. I custom made the bracket myself and it was a very easy installation. The 2 bolts that hold the steering column on the Van Diemen are a perfect spot to attach a piece of custom bent 1/8 inch aluminum flat bar. A hammer, a drill and a vise are all thats needed
I got my unit as soon as they came out and iI love it! Not sure what all the fuss is about. I just paid $249 and if this is the large one I cannot imagine how it needs to be any smaller. It sure gets your attention without taking your eyes off the road. The first time I got a blue flag indication I looked in my mirrors and sure enough there was a real FA closing in at break neck speed. I really appreciated the heads up as I was about to move into his path to line up for the next turn. The only negative I can think of was at the June Sprints when I was ‘busted’ for not slowing down enough through a local yellow. I did slow down but 2 cars I was racing pulled away at an obvious higher speed and I never caught them again. They were not pulled over as I was. Big Brother is watching so beware. Race control knows everything now! Otherwise I agree this is a great tool! As a former pilot I love the situational awareness! I am sure it will save an accident or two easily paying for itself!
Hartley MacDonald
2006 Van Dieman RF06
Hartley,
Part of the issue is for us larger guys we have the steering wheel higher for leg clearance, and i have my shift lights where you mounted your flagtronics. If you weren't able to put it there, and your wheel was about an inch higher, where would you put it?
I started to mount my $550 dollar unit in my VD tonight. I think i found a place to put it, but it's unlikely I'll be able to press the buttons without removing the steering wheel. Now wire management, that's a whole different story.
I stand by my earlier prediction. FT will directly have a negative impact on the outcome of at least one race at the Runoffs.
Mike Beauchamp
RF95 Prototype 2
Get your FIA rain lights here:
www.gyrodynamics.net/product/cartek-fia-rain-light/
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