Cool Down Lap American Flag display

[EYERACE]

It's rare but even an experienced Driver can blow seeing the checker and suddenly they're still going full bore on a cool down lap. The clue generally noticed after about half the lap is the Corner Workers are waving their hands "Hello!" to all the cars.

Idea........

Remembering the SCCA is the Sports Car Club of America
Workers still wave such that the Driver should wave back as a way of thanking the Workers. How about this > starting with about the third Worker station after Start/Finish, on the Cool Down Lap, all subsequent stations also wave the Stars & Strips when they see the Leader during the cool down lap. Not only would the Driver who failed to notice the Checker have an additional clue that it is the Cool Down Lap.....but this might also have it such that some other hasn't-got-a-clue Driver then doesn't blow the Checker and take an additional Cool Down Lap.

I thought to bring this up here because so many of you have insights I wouldn't think of on my own......and that way if I do write this idea up as a proposal, it might be a sounder one.

[rockbeau25]

Can't speak for everyone, but I do this as safely as I can to bring the car in hot and get accurate pressure readings after the race.

[Peter Olivola]

Since passing is permitted on the cool down lap and since it's not uncommon for the leaders to pass back markers who haven't taken the checker and my still be involved in their own race, I don't see this or any other flag condition as workable.

[10rmotor]

Unless there is a situation on track that needs to be brought to the attention of the drivers they don't need any distractions. But I have on at least one occasion missed the checker. It was at an unfamiliar race track. Can't remember if it was during a practice/qual session or an actual race.

[EYERACE]

I was thinking about the back markers still racing such that the flag would be from somewhere well after first couple of stations just in case the Leader lapped back markers on the Cool Down Lap......maybe then this gets modified to where it's only the very last station when they see the Leader on the Leader's Cool Down Lap.

Coming in hot at least means the Driver knows to come in

[Rick Kirchner]

Start should call last car in front of the leader and go yellow at each corner after the last car passes. There's no excuse for someone who has finished his race to interfere with others. No excuse.

[John Nesbitt]

If the driver did not see the checker, why should we expect him to see any other flag? Occam tells us not to multiply entities needlessly. Creating another flag condition just adds to the complexity, and possibility/likelihood of something going wrong.

My standard solution in these cases is to have a conversation with the driver in impound. Anything less than abject contrition and an earnest promise to pay better attention leads to a penalty. That usually achieves the desired result.

[Lotus7]

A few years ago at Sebring a guy did at least 4 post-checker laps, with every station waving every flag they had to no avail. Finally had to send a wrecker out to block him.
Some people can't be fixed....

[EYERACE]

possible modification to proposed rule............

Last Worker Station (which would be last one to be seen by Drivers before Pit In) displays American Flag once the call around on the Worker's radios says final car has seen the Checker.

..........but I don't see how this would prevent a mid-pack car yet running at full tilt so as to come in hot from blowing the Checker after they've finished their Cool Down Lap......but it would have given a clue to the 4 laps too many Driver

more comments.......cuz they're good ones, thanks

I'm surprised I'm doing this because I'm one who says about most things in Life, not just the SCCA......what? ....we really need more rules?

[John Nesbitt]

..

I'm surprised I'm doing this because I'm one who says about most things in Life, not just the SCCA......what? ....we really need more rules?

I think that you put your finger on the essence of the problem right there. In so many areas – not just SCCA – there is a tendency to say, “People are not obeying this rule. Let’s make another rule.” And, of course, this is absolutely not the answer to the problem; the answer is to enforce the existing rule.

Running the checker, while irritating, happens pretty seldom in my experience, and with little chance of bad outcomes. After all, the checker is an information flag (as is the blue flag).

What is much more concerning is not seeing/responding to command flags (Black, Red, Yellow). Blowing these flags can have disastrous consequences.

The larger question is, therefore, how to induce people to see/respond to flags in general. Experience has shown that strict enforcement, with meaningful penalties, produces excellent results.

[mmi16]

The bigger confusion is when the overall winner and those on the end of the lead lap are coming to the Checker at the near same time - such that the lappers will get lapped immediately past S/F.

[douglap1]

The bigger confusion is when the overall winner and those on the end of the lead lap are coming to the Checker at the near same time - such that the lappers will get lapped immediately past S/F.

Yeah, this seems to be pretty common. In a race I was in a few weeks ago, I was the lead car in our race group, and coming up to lap a couple of Formula F's who were in a tight battle at the end of a race. The checker flag was waved for me, and the two guys in the FF's just in front of me backed off like they thought they had just finished the race, when they obviously had another lap to go.

So, I slowed down greatly, so as to not pass them or interfere with their race. One of the guys had a radio and his crew alerted him that the checker wasn't for them, so he got back on it, and ended up winning the FF race. It seemed there were quite a few hard feelings after that race.

In this case, I think the flag man could have pointed the flag at me as I crossed the S/F line (sort of like a black flag) and the other drivers just in front of me may have gotten the message.

[Mark_Silverberg]

The waiving of the US National flag does not comply with the US flag code which states the flag is not to be dipped or changed in position to acknowledge any individual or country. Only a stationary flag would comply. If there was a US flag on the corner it would need to be stored properly and respectfully between sessions and then carefully unfurled for display.

We have become increasingly non compliant towards how the US flag is displayed and used in the US. I respect the US flag to much to suggest that it should be used as a tool or signaling device.

[E1pix]

Thanks for pointing that out, Mark.

[Rick Kirchner]

So, I slowed down greatly, so as to not pass them or interfere with their race. One of the guys had a radio and his crew alerted him that the checker wasn't for them, so he got back on it, and ended up winning the FF race. It seemed there were quite a few hard feelings after that race.

Great sportsmanship!

A while back I saw a video of a race at Buttonwillow. The lead car, an atlantic (and not in a position to lose to anyone) was approaching two S2s just before the last corner onto the front straight. Now, he could have slowed a tad, let them have their race, and taken the checker. But he decided to try a pass, they didn't see him, and he got pinched into the wall, grinding to a stop well short of S/F.

Discretion is the better part of valor....

[EYERACE]

Mark, thank you for bringing your point out. You are right. I shall discontinue my notion of such rule. Thank you. Part of what motived me is unfortunately I come from a 'Gold Star' family. My Brother raced and if such rule would have ever been put in place i would have always secretly thought of it as a small honor to him.......but there is a bigger picture. I thought at first that because it's the SCCAmerica such display on a Cool Down Lap would be helpful at the end of a Session and also honorable for the Club......but the rules for and nature of flag care are primary. I'm getting a little verklempt here.

Once again, the collective intelligence of those who come to this site prove we're a pretty good group of people who happen to race.

Moderator - please close this thread.

[Zonker]

The larger question is, therefore, how to induce people to see/respond to flags in general. Experience has shown that strict enforcement, with meaningful penalties, produces excellent results.

The problem I see are the Stewards who don't have the stones to issue meaningful penalties. When they do there are two things likely to happen....

First the driver will go on various sites and announce to the world that the Stewards are on a "power trip" and penalized him unjustly. They will also charge the Stewards are senile, stupid and have no idea what racing is all about. They will then vow to go somewhere else and not return.

The Region will be unhappy because they fear the drivers won't come back and they will lose entry fees, followed up by complaints to the Stewards, BoD and anyone who will listen to reduce the penalty.

[John Nesbitt]

The problem I see are the Stewards who don't have the stones to issue meaningful penalties. When they do there are two things likely to happen....

First the driver will go on various sites and announce to the world that the Stewards are on a "power trip" and penalized him unjustly. They will also charge the Stewards are senile, stupid and have no idea what racing is all about. They will then vow to go somewhere else and not return.

The Region will be unhappy because they fear the drivers won't come back and they will lose entry fees, followed up by complaints to the Stewards, BoD and anyone who will listen to reduce the penalty.

True enough; some stewards just want a quiet life. Especially Sunday afternoon. And some of it is simply variability among all the stewards across the entire country. Contrast that with, for example, FRP, where there is one person in charge for every event. That gives consistency.

Some drivers do try to punish stewards for actions or penalties. I am familiar with three drivers who demanded that the national office and/or Executive Steward yank my license. Nothing came of it. I really do not think that stewards let a threat of retaliation affect their actions to any significant degree.

If I had a nickel for every time I have heard, "If you penalize me, I am not returning," or, "If you change that rule so that it favors my car/class, I will come race with you," I could buy a nice meal. Words said in the heat of the moment very seldom lead to anything.

I would say that Regions are very good at supporting race officials, especially given the financial pressures on them. I have been Chief Steward or SOM Chairman at events all across the country. Never once has a race chair or Region Executive asked me to take it easy on a driver for any reason.

[Peter Olivola]

I would say that Regions are very good at supporting race officials, especially given the financial pressures on them. I have been Chief Steward or SOM Chairman at events all across the country. Never once has a race chair or Region Executive asked me to take it easy on a driver for any reason.

I will second that observation.

[Zonker]

I have been Chief Steward or SOM Chairman at events all across the country. Never once has a race chair or Region Executive asked me to take it easy on a driver for any reason.

Region folks generally stick to whining about how the Stewards are driving people away. On the other hand, the National office has expressed their strong desire for a specific outcome...more than once .

[Peter Olivola]

Region folks generally stick to whining about how the Stewards are driving people away. On the other hand, the National office has expressed their strong desire for a specific outcome...more than once .

You familiar with the term, "vaguebooking," Jack?

[Zonker]

You familiar with the term, "vaguebooking," Jack?

Yes Peter, and I am deliberately being ambiguous, it happened a few years ago and there is no point in stirring the pot now. But I can assure I have been the recipient of more than one Monday morning phone call.

'Nuf said.

[Peter Olivola]

Yes Peter, and I am deliberately being ambiguous, it happened a few years ago and there is no point in stirring the pot now. But I can assure I have been the recipient of more than one Monday morning phone call.

'Nuf said.

I've never gotten a call from Topeka, but every CoA decision overturning one of my courts was well deserved and every other action from Topeka that had a negative impact on me was likewise. I can say with some pride there is a rule in the GCR that was the result of action I took.