Flagtronics - video of system in use.

[John LaRue]

The video posted on FB is a nice demonstration of the efficiency of the system. https://www.facebook.com/1428733792/...7955871440488/

Also, I had the opportunity to be in Race Control during the first race at June Sprints yesterday when one of the cars that was using the Flagtronics was involved in an incident. The unit triggered the G limit warning and when the driver did not respond the emergency crews were promptly notified and the course went to a Double Yellow, ultimately to a BFA. Fortunately the driver was ok and the race was restarted. With the units in all of the cars it will be much more efficient allowing Race Control to deploy a code 35 (all cars assume 35mph) so that clean up can begin immediately without getting all of the cars gathered behind the pace car. It may also help in some instances where there are split starts followed by a FCY to allow the groups to maintain their split.

[brian styczynski]

Can you confirm the incident trigger is still set at 25G? I hit the T3 wall Sunday morning, got the OK? Message and hit the button to acknowledge I was, so hot pull with local yellow only.

https://youtu.be/34mIXAbXbF0?si=d3ZEffcQcaL-dlG5

[John LaRue]

Brian, That is what I have heard but you should confirm with Topeka.

[BeerBudgetRacing]

This is good to hear.

Anyone have any news on the separated display unit that was talked about?
Not seeing it on their website.

[Steve Davis]

The video posted on FB is a nice demonstration of the efficiency of the system. https://www.facebook.com/1428733792/...7955871440488/

Also, I had the opportunity to be in Race Control during the first race at June Sprints yesterday when one of the cars that was using the Flagtronics was involved in an incident. The unit triggered the G limit warning and when the driver did not respond the emergency crews were promptly notified and the course went to a Double Yellow, ultimately to a BFA. ...

John,
I'm curious. FT not visible in Brian's video, but was there more than 1 incident on lap lap 1? Brian says he DID respond to the OK? message, but your report said 'the driver' did not respond.. was there also another incident? YOUR link on FB gives a 'not available right now' message. Maybe your reference is to an incident on another lap? Seems that maybe there WAS something going with a couple of FF's on that lap as well going towards Canada... there was no SCCA video shown, so not sure.
Steve, FV80

[Steve Demeter]

Well I tried to watch it but FB said it is no longer available. Just my luck

[John LaRue]

I don't know if we are speaking of the same situation/incident, there were several that occurred within a very short period of time. It is entirely possible that I simply missed the call out that the driver had responded to the signal.

Kevin Coulter is superb at calling the race as were all of the operating stewards I observed.

The small FT unit is reportedly slated for shipment in July.

[Mike B]

With the units in all of the cars it will be much more efficient allowing Race Control to deploy a code 35 (all cars assume 35mph) so that clean up can begin immediately without getting all of the cars gathered behind the pace car.

I've seen this discussed but never really gave it much thought. Three questions and a comment:
1. How will cars without speedometers know they're going 35 mph?
2. How will it be enforced?
3. How will drivers that exceed 35 mph be penalized?

If all cars assume 35 mph there is no opportunity to bunch up the field and give some cars an opportunity to improve their position on a restart, making for a boring race. Maybe it's an unpopular opinion but I think the F1 Virtual Safety Car is one of the worst "innovations" of the modern era. I understand that it's in the safety worker's best interest and allows the racing to get back underway sooner (maybe, remains to be seen) so there is a trade-off. If that's the compromise the club has decided upon, so be it. However, there was FCY in almost every single race this weekend and race control and the safety crews did a great job in cleaning things up and going back to green quickly, even with the use a traditional safety car.

[Bob Wright]

Without debating the FCY vs code 35.....

The flagtronics unit flashes "SLO" if you're going too fast. It can also be programmed for pit entrance and lane speed.

Once you see it in action, you can start to appreciate how much it can help the stewards control the track and speed incident cleanup.

[John LaRue]

Mike - As Bob pointed out the system will give you a warning if you are exceeding 35mph. With the Code 35 a pace car can be avoided thus shortening the clean up time (FCY) to get back to racing. The system worked quite well with the SMX class at Mid-Ohio. I was told how much time it saved on an incident and it was significant.

I am unaware of any specific penalty for a violation of Code 35 at this time. Most violations do not specify the penalty.

I get the idea that bunching up the fields makes it more exciting in some instances but the bigger problem with our level of racing as I see it is getting green flag track time. I am most certain that even with the FT units there will still be ample time for us all to follow a pace car!

[brian styczynski]

I don't know if we are speaking of the same situation/incident, there were several that occurred within a very short period of time. It is entirely possible that I simply missed the call out that the driver had responded to the signal.

Kevin Coulter is superb at calling the race as were all of the operating stewards I observed.

The small FT unit is reportedly slated for shipment in July.

After my car was towed off track there was a black flag, so a few laps later is probably the one you are talking about. I do not know who was involved or where.

[Tim Minor]

I spoke to Eric Prill on Sunday at the June Sprints.I was told that Flagtronics will have the Formula Car Version available on July 15 with shipping on July 22.I was also told that if they did not have these units available,there would be a reevaluation of the mandatory use for Formula Cars at this year’s Runoff’s.
Tim MinorFc88

[LarryWinkelman]

Does the Flagtronics system have the capability to provide different messages/codes to different cars? For instance, everyone gets Code35 after an incident, but then after it's cleared (or at least everyone has passed it once) the leader stays Code35 but the rest of the field gets FCY or some other message so they know to catch up? Same effect as pace car, but without a pace car.

[Mike B]

The flagtronics unit flashes "SLO" if you're going too fast. It can also be programmed for pit entrance and lane speed.

Is "SLO" visible to Race Control? If not, it sounds like it's on the honor system and even if I'm being obedient, the guy behind me might consider it more of a Code 45 or 55 and close up on me during the FCY.
I do like Larry's idea, though.

[924RACR]

Really glad to have the Flagtronics in my car this weekend (Sprints, Group 8). So wonderful to have that advance notice of flag conditions when you're going so insanely fast.

I finally saw the flag station in the Kink! What a waste of good flaggers, hiding them in the shade there! Presumably all they will be able to contribute, other than pushing the buttons on the FT controller will be to respond if an incident happens? Any flag they have seemed invisible.

Turn 3 was a signal hole for the FT broadcaster - I kept getting a "SIG" warning while blasting through there. Something to look at for the CAT Majors.

Oh, and one more thumbs-up for the FT in the cockpit: I could always see and read it, even in the heaviest spray. But as we all figured out on Saturday, those FIA rain lights didn't solve anything, cars were still invisible going into 1, and if you could see 'em, you could hit 'em!

Seriously, great job by the Flagtronics team for bringing this to us, it makes us measurably safer on track. I think it's arguably even more valuable than a HANS, since it is able to prevent incidents or make them less severe.

Well, unless you're one of those FE2 drivers who can't see the color yellow...

[brian styczynski]

I spoke to Eric Prill on Sunday at the June Sprints.I was told that Flagtronics will have the Formula Car Version available on July 15 with shipping on July 22.I was also told that if they did not have these units available,there would be a reevaluation of the mandatory use for Formula Cars at this year’s Runoff’s.
Tim MinorFc88

I would think since they weren't available before the Sprints, the last chance to test before runoffs, it should already be reevaluated.

[CheckeredFlag]

I would think since they weren't available before the Sprints, the last chance to test before runoffs, it should already be reevaluated.

Great point!

[CheckeredFlag]

Does the Flagtronics system have the capability to provide different messages/codes to different cars? For instance, everyone gets Code35 after an incident, but then after it's cleared (or at least everyone has passed it once) the leader stays Code35 but the rest of the field gets FCY or some other message so they know to catch up? Same effect as pace car, but without a pace car.

Deleted. Didn't answer Larry's question.

[Steve Davis]

Deleted. Didn't answer Larry's question.

It is MY (personal) presumption that the CODE35 (or whatever speed they decide on) would be an immediate response to a significant incident... Like an alternate to RED - and after 'some time', RC will further evaluate the situation as to whether or not to dispatch a safety car. If car is decided, then FT would change from Code35 to FCY and cars would catch up. If, however, the incident was cleared quickly, the code35 would simply DROP and go back to GREEN/ NOFLAG. IMHO *THAT* would be the primo use of C35. Roll EV almost instantly, and if the incident is accessible and 'handleable' by first responders, then, hopefully, NO FCY would be required and everyone could go back to racing "sooner". If we have to go FCY, then we have already lost the potential advantage of C35. The benefit would be most on long tracks - like VIR and Elkhart where 'gathering the field' takes a LONG TIME. The ~2 mi tracks would probably not show much gain.
Steve, FV80

[mmi16]

It is MY (personal) presumption that the CODE35 (or whatever speed they decide on) would be an immediate response to a significant incident... Like an alternate to RED - and after 'some time', RC will further evaluate the situation as to whether or not to dispatch a safety car. If car is decided, then FT would change from Code35 to FCY and cars would catch up. If, however, the incident was cleared quickly, the code35 would simply DROP and go back to GREEN/ NOFLAG. IMHO *THAT* would be the primo use of C35. Roll EV almost instantly, and if the incident is accessible and 'handleable' by first responders, then, hopefully, NO FCY would be required and everyone could go back to racing "sooner". If we have to go FCY, then we have already lost the potential advantage of C35. The benefit would be most on long tracks - like VIR and Elkhart where 'gathering the field' takes a LONG TIME. The ~2 mi tracks would probably not show much gain.
Steve, FV80

Do ALL flag stations have a Green Flag? If FT were to go from Code35 back to RACING - Is the FT 'Green' the only notification that the driver will get to go back racing, or will each flag station also wave a Green?

[Hardingfv32]

Is "SLO" visible to Race Control? If not, it sounds like it's on the honor system and even if I'm being obedient, the guy behind me might consider it more of a Code 45 or 55 and close up on me during the FCY.

The system alerts RC about who is not complying with the Code 35. May be a black flag could be used to teach the offender a lessen.

Brian

[Hardingfv32]

Do ALL flag stations have a Green Flag? If FT were to go from Code35 back to RACING - Is the FT 'Green' the only notification that the driver will get to go back racing, or will each flag station also wave a Green?

Can we assume that a standing yellow is displayed during the Code 35? So then, when the yellows are withdrawn then you are racing again (green). Is this not the case after a current FCY?

Brian

[Dave Welsh]

I worked as a flag marshal at T1 and T2 for the 14 hour Daytona ChampCar race last April. I was an observer at T2 when the incident described below occurred.

A screen shot of the FT Race Control Log for the end of the race is shown below.

With 12 minutes to go in the race a car (#6) pulled off course, drivers left, just short of the T3 flag station. T1 went local yellow to cover the stalled car (T2 observer does not have flags.) Line 343

21 seconds after T1 went local yellow the course went FCY. Line 344.

23 seconds after the course went FCY a Code 35 went into effect. Line 345

EVs were immediately dispatched to flat tow #6.

Once the EVs cleared the course FT went FCY. Line 346

15 seconds after FT displayed the FCY FT went Green. Line 347

4 minutes 45 seconds to from FCY to green. How long would it take clear an incident like this using a safety car?

Under green conditions ChampCar uses the FCY to alert drivers that a Code 35 is imminent. Conversely under Code 35 conditions a FCY alerts drivers that the course will go green.

[Steve Davis]

...
Under green conditions ChampCar uses the FCY to alert drivers that a Code 35 is imminent. Conversely under Code 35 conditions a FCY alerts drivers that the course will go green.

This is the way Champ Car does it. It may or may NOT be the way SCCA decides to do it, but it is a good example of how it COULD work. From other posts from Jon, EVERYTHING FT is 'under study' by SCCA.
Currently, there are NO GREEN FLAGS at the corners. For Green, they all just DROP the FCY flags. Now, with FT, there would be a FT GREEN shown as it is in the FT Example on their website.
Steve, FV80

[Purple Frog]

No dog in the hunt, but...
All my years of driving a FC car with a 70 mph 1st gear, it was very difficult to only go 35 without bogging or using the clutch on and off. And to "go green" and accelerate from 35 will require a new art form to avoid bogging the engine. We used to complain at drivers meeting that pace car drivers needed to go 55 for our cooling air and better starts.

Now back to your regularly scheduled broadcast.

[racerjon1]

No dog in the hunt, but...
All my years of driving a FC car with a 70 mph 1st gear, it was very difficult to only go 35 without bogging or using the clutch on and off. And to "go green" and accelerate from 35 will require a new art form to avoid bogging the engine. We used to complain at drivers meeting that pace car drivers needed to go 55 for our cooling air and better starts.

Now back to your regularly scheduled broadcast.

Roebling Road crazy first gears aside (man I was surprised when I started traveling and saw how SLOW some tracks were) Eric and I discussed some groups might need more than "code 35" for this very reason.

Big bore formula cars, big bore GT cars may indeed need a "code" that is 45 or 55 in some cases.

The system can be set for different speeds, so this is easily within reach.

[Hardingfv32]

The question should be, what speed do the tracks desire to avoid a FCY. The gearing can be adapted.

Brian

[Dave Harmison]

Does the whole Flag-tronic thing mean we now have to have an IT expert on hand to deal with network going down, communication errors, software updates, etc?

And by we, I mean both the racers AND the officials.

[racerjon1]

Does the whole Flag-tronic thing mean we now have to have an IT expert on hand to deal with network going down, communication errors, software updates, etc?

And by we, I mean both the racers AND the officials.

For Racers, the only "IT" stuff I believe it needs is to update firmware update periodically - you do this by using a cable to plug into a laptop. It will be very similar to a camera, dash, etc. Other than that it installs and the hardware at the track does the heavy lifting. I know this might be foreign for some folks, but I find that in my life I experience this need with non-racing hardware relative frequency. (It's like updating a printer driver or other "devices" that work with your computer.)

For officials, I'm not an IT expert, Eric isn't an IT expert and we've run it with very little issues outside of what you'd find in a regular home computer.

The system as we use it consists of:

Outside Hardware:

• Broadcasters: 4-6 per track. Flagtronics has set up locations for us, so we put them on extended poles in the paddock/around the track. We have a document with locations/photos. In "IT" terms we hook up a solar panel with a USB connection and push the power button.

• Updator (I forget the official name): It's basically a different type of broadcaster. We put this near grid and it is what tells the cars what track they are at before they go on track. It's about like the old trackside timing beacons in terms of size.

Inside (Control Room):

• Receivers (Antennas), Hotspot, Network distributor: While this is certain;y more "IT" style of items, the directions make it about the same level of difficulty as building IKEA furniture or setting up a video game console. We get a diagram and plug various things where it says to plug them in. If I work it again next year, I just want to build a board all this mounts to so there will only be a couple of things to plug in. That kind of setup could easily be done to make it even easier.

• Laptop: Software is loaded up, open program, run it. I've experienced one issue where I had to shut the program down and restart, but hopefully no one needs IT to do that.

• Broadcast (SCCA National Only): we have broadcast software we run and there is a set of steps that "sends" it to the web channel, or to other TVs in the room - we use a wireless HDMI setup. If this was a smaller event I'd think that this could be done with an HDMI splitter and a cable to a large screen in the room. Even if this was implimented for all events (say, to make sure your crew cuold watch the "marching ants" the step-by-step process works.

Is this stuff "IT" sure - but it's at a point where it's plug and play enough that it shouldn't need an IT network. I find it easier to manage than Timing and Scoring. Understanding flagging and the workflow of race operations is way more important than being an IT guru. I've had quite a few folks who I've invited to sit and watch, and everyone has come away with a much more positive outlook on the system.

Skills needed:

• Outside Setup: There is some physical labor here. Putting up the towers, especially in a wind, should have a couple of people.

• Control Room: Basic computer skills. If you can set up a home computer (running the power cords and such) and If you're used to using excel or word or playing any kind of game this isn't going to be a stretch. If you can't using a smart phone and someone has to come over and help you to do online stuff - yeah, this system is going to give you an issue, but so will streaming services on TV and your car stereo so that's not a system issue, that's a user one.

We brought Chris Robbins to Watkins Glen, and he is going to work on a manual that makes all this even easier as part of the Learning Management System, so I'm confident we can get it to a place where it's even easier for folks who might not work with computers on a regular basis.

[Peter Olivola]

Does the whole Flag-tronic thing mean we now have to have an IT expert on hand to deal with network going down, communication errors, software updates, etc?

And by we, I mean both the racers AND the officials.

Sounds like an opportunity to recruit and engage the under 40 folks.