A little misunderstanding - Homologation

[CARSHouston]

I have seen recent posts telling people that their car can't be run if it doesn't have a homologation certificate, this isn't complete true.
Please read the GCR, section 9.2.2 states "Cars that comply with the design criteria set forth for roll hoops (GCR section 9.4.5) do not require a Homologation Certificate"
I'm thinking about building a new FV and checked with Rick Harris Road Racing Technical Manager for SCCA in 2021 and he agreed with my reading of the rule, that any car conforming to its class rules and the roll bars rules mentioned above does not need to be submitted for homologation.
I can just go to the track and get a logbook.
So, if you have an old car or even a new one without a logbook and homologation papers, if it meets the rules come out and run it.
Let the flaming begin.

[racerjon1]

I have seen recent posts telling people that their car can't be run if it doesn't have a homologation certificate, this isn't complete true.
Please read the GCR, section 9.2.2 states "Cars that comply with the design criteria set forth for roll hoops (GCR section 9.4.5) do not require a Homologation Certificate"
I'm thinking about building a new FV and checked with Rick Harris Road Racing Technical Manager for SCCA in 2021 and he agreed with my reading of the rule, that any car conforming to its class rules and the roll bars rules mentioned above does not need to be submitted for homologation.
I can just go to the track and get a logbook.
So, if you have an old car or even a new one without a logbook and homologation papers, if it meets the rules come out and run it.
Let the flaming begin.

Backing this up from the National Office.

There are two ways to get a logbook for a formula car/sports racer.

1) Standard Design: Meet the design Specs outlined in 9.4.5 (exactly what's said above). This car can be inspected by a Tech Inspector at an event just like a production-based car would be, and issued a log book.

2) Alternate Design (Homologation): This is for a car that doesn't meet the design specs, but when the constructor (factory or individual) submits the required data to prove the alternate design meets stress loading requirements. This means engineering specifications signed by a registered engineer. If this is you - this is where you contact the National Office and start that process - the National Office issues the homologation certificate (or letter of exception) and then the local tech inspector can issue the logbook once you have that.

[EACIII]

Don't think there are any FF or FC cars built in the last 20 years that met the letter of the rules unless they have been changed since I last read through it all. Most common is the brace within 6" of the top of the main roll hoop.


Ed

[FVRacer21]

Yes - there are no more homologation certificates UNLESS you build a car to alternate specs. (waiver)

So if you car meets the current GCR rules, you do not need a certificate, no matter the age of the car.

If you have a certificate - do not loose it, in case your car might have gotten a waiver (thinking cars with removable roll hoops or alternate monocoque builds). I do not believe the SCCA ever kept complete records on Homologation Certificates.

When I was handling FF sales for Skip Barber Crossle, I seem to remember getting 10 at a time to fill in, sometimes I have to request ones to be send prefilled in - so the system was not consistent through it's life. Remember - it started BEFORE PCs were even a thing.

There is/was talk about a national log book database. This would be so valuable to the racing community and have uses beyond just the car itself. Do not know where this stands.

ChrisZ

PS - Found this from 2023:

"Chris- We no longer require homologation for cars that meet the roll cage requirements in the GCR, only those that do not. Let me know what you may need, but if the car meets GCR requirements, it will not need a homologation certificate. -Scott"

[cory mcleod]

I haven't read this part of the GCR in a while, but doesn't the "no homologation required" part of the rule apply only to cars built AFTER a certain date? In other words, older cars still need proof of homologation?

[racerjon1]

I haven't read this part of the GCR in a while, but doesn't the "no homologation required" part of the rule apply only to cars built AFTER a certain date? In other words, older cars still need proof of homologation?

9.2.2. "...Cars registered prior to January 1, 1983 do not require a Homologation Certificate."

"Registration" is the key word there so those cars wouldn't need a Homologation certificate, but they WOULD need a logbook issued prior to that date.

I guess I could ask Scott if someone popped up with a non-logbooked car (e.g. 1979 Van Diemen) what our procedure would be, but I've always interpreted this as "if it doesn't have a logbook prior to that date, it doesn't "exist" in SCCA eyes."

[racerjon1]

so the system was not consistent through it's life. Remember - it started BEFORE PCs were even a thing.

There is/was talk about a national log book database. This would be so valuable to the racing community and have uses beyond just the car itself. Do not know where this stands.

ChrisZ

Supposedly there are lists somewhere. I do think that old enough cars means someone has to go back and sift through bank boxes for a while. I've had this conversation with Scott, and it's why there is a decent fee if you lose your homologation certificate.

[Phil Creighton]

This started about 83 as I recall so that manufacturers could get a car (mostly FF in those days) approved as a type with a certificate.
We issued the certificates that SCCA sent us, as importer, to send out with each new car so that all the customer had to do was show up at his first tech with it to get a log book. Tech verified the stated hoop dimensions.
It also ensured that European versions had to go through their own SCCA process as fuel cells and other details were not SCCA spec.
It all went egg shaped when bolt on roll hoops appeared on F3 derived cars with Reynards FA having 2 7/8 x 060 tubes as a main hoop that was FIA approved. It pretty quickly filtered down to FF and FC in 97-98. We held the line at 1.375 main hoop for a long time but eventually accepted FIA crash tested structures.
I am pretty sure anything before 82 or 83 did not have a homologation certificate - it was built to SCCA rules and each owner had to get a two race letter (remember those) to present at his first race when tech examined the car.

[FVRacer21]

See #4 edit additional info.

ChrisZ

[Phil Creighton]

At the time it all started in 83 it was to make it easier for the customer at the first race. In those days we were all building to the SCCA rules and alternate designs slid in later. I remember getting Van Diemen Certificates 10 at a time - filled in the chassis number and notified Denver
Phil

[FVRacer21]

9.2.2. "...Cars registered prior to January 1, 1983 do not require a Homologation Certificate."

"Registration" is the key word there so those cars wouldn't need a Homologation certificate, but they WOULD need a logbook issued prior to that date.

I guess I could ask Scott if someone popped up with a non-logbooked car (e.g. 1979 Van Diemen) what our procedure would be, but I've always interpreted this as "if it doesn't have a logbook prior to that date, it doesn't "exist" in SCCA eyes."

if any car showed up without a log book or homologation, it would be treated as a new car. If it passed all GCR specs it would be issued a new log book. Many old FV have come out of the barns and are racing because of this. A positive thing for older cars. The $200 Re homologation fee was a nightmare…

ChrisZ

[Phil Creighton]

I dont remember any FVs having to have Certificates as they were built to the rule book not alt design.
Phil

[FVRacer21]

I dont remember any FVs having to have Certificates as they were built to the rule book not alt design.
Phil

All my FV cars 90 - 2002 have homologation papers - my 1984 does not have it as it was a converted 1980 car. I left Skip Barber in 1988 so don’t have direct experience with the system after that. By then he was no longer a Crossle or Mondiale dealer.

Does not matter anymore - much easier to build your own car today.

ChrisZ