Harness questions - they all have clips now

[cory mcleod]

I'm harness shopping for the first time in a while and almost all that I find now fasten using clips. I've always bolted my lap and submarine belts to the frame and am hoping the collective Apex knowledge can answer some questions.

1. The clip harnesses either come with eye bolts or are available as harness accessories. So I mount the eye bolt where I used to mount the normal bolt and then clip the harness to it, right?
2. I have always mounted the lap and submarine harnesses together using a single bolt on each side. Is there a problem with using one eye bolt on each side?
3. Has anyone had problems with the eye bolt and clip mounting system in small formula cars with narrow cockpits?

I am also learning that I'm one of the few racers still wanting to use 3" harnesses, but I'll save that for a different post.

All feedback will be greatly appreciated!

Thanks, Cory

[sc94]

Formula Car Harnesses - Pegasus Auto Racing Supplies

Maybe not 3" but bolt-ins are available.

[Rick Kirchner]

yeah, go custom - Pyrotect, Crow, etc

[lowside67]

I am also learning that I'm one of the few racers still wanting to use 3" harnesses, but I'll save that for a different post.

This is pretty much the crux of your issue, not the clip. Virtually every top level harness is built with bolted mounting, it's the 3" limitation that's causing your issue. Are you not planning on wearing a HANS type device?

Mark

[Jim Edmonds]

Bolt-in's are the way to go for small cockpit open wheel cars, but you need the double overlap buckles to put the bolt through. I haven't had enough room to use clip-in's in any of my four Van Diemens, Piper and Stohr. You don't want the sewed loop on the bottom of the lap belt as that raises the adjuster too high.

If you put the pull up lab belt buckles as close to the floor as you can get them; and away from your lower body; you have more leverage to tighten the belts yourself. That way you can buckle yourself in and get the belts tight enough if no crew member is available.

The other reason for bolt in's is that there less bruising from the tightener buckle in a big lateral hit.

Simpson has custom made my belts for over a decade, but they only certify for two years. About six years ago they would do the five year FIA certification. Then something changed at Simpson.

Always when you buckle in, the belts should be so tight they hurt. Tightness means less movement in a big hit; and less internal injuries.

YMMV

Keep having fun,

Jim Edmonds
Phoenix, AZ

[Garey Guzman]

All mine are bolt in, except my Royale, which I've already partially changed to bolt in.

Willans are the one's I have the most experience with and have liked better than the other brands I've tried. The only reason the Sabelt and Schroth were tried is because it seems to be more difficult to get Willans.
I was actually trading emails today with a place selling Willans and they suggested I look at TRS. I think I'm going to give the TRS brand a try.

[Skip Weld]

All mine are bolt in, except my Royale, which I've already partially changed to bolt in.

Willans are the one's I have the most experience with and have liked better than the other brands I've tried. The only reason the Sabelt and Schroth were tried is because it seems to be more difficult to get Willans.
I was actually trading emails today with a place selling Willans and they suggested I look at TRS. I think I'm going to give the TRS brand a try.

You can buy Willans from Primus Racing Parts, Just call Brad. he may have to order them. I have bought 2 or 3 sets from him recently.
Skip Weld

[Farrout48]

I have used Scroth for years in FF and DSR cars where the fitting is tight. Have always used the pull up lap belts which made getting in and tightened up by myself easy. Mounted lap and sub straps to the same bolt. Clip ins did not fit due to the intrusion of the rounded clip bolt. But it all depends on the frame spacing and your body size. Have used 3" in years past but the 2" worked better.

[tgaluardi]

I agree with the Simpson reply. They have 3" bolt in and the company has
been very easy to work with in the past. They made my belts the way I requested.

[Gary_T]

I have TRS (https://www.trs-motorsport.com/) in both the Reynard and the Swift - purchased both through David at Britain West Motorsport (Ontario, Canada). The probably have a 'spring' order being put in sometime soon.

They have a custom order sheet, with a pile of options. Quality is great. 5 year FIA patch.

Gary

All mine are bolt in, except my Royale, which I've already partially changed to bolt in.

Willans are the one's I have the most experience with and have liked better than the other brands I've tried. The only reason the Sabelt and Schroth were tried is because it seems to be more difficult to get Willans.
I was actually trading emails today with a place selling Willans and they suggested I look at TRS. I think I'm going to give the TRS brand a try.

[cory mcleod]

Thank you for all the great responses! The Apex knowledge base never let's me down. Looks like I have several options to pursue.

Cory

[cory mcleod]

This is pretty much the crux of your issue, not the clip. Virtually every top level harness is built with bolted mounting, it's the 3" limitation that's causing your issue. Are you not planning on wearing a HANS type device?

Mark

I use one of the original design HANS (purchased the day after the 2011 Daytona 500). It's been upgraded to movable tethers and I had it recertified when the SCCA required that.

I sold my car in 2019 and bought it back in 2021 and have been refurbing it since. The other owner put in 2" belts. When I belt in with the HANS, I don't have confidence that the 2" shoulder belts won't slide off the sides in frontal impact. That's why I want 3" shoulder belts, which I've always used with this HANS. The lap and submarines can be 2".

Thanks, Cory

[kea]

I use one of the original design HANS (purchased the day after the 2011 Daytona 500). It's been upgraded to movable tethers and I had it recertified when the SCCA required that. I sold my car in 2019 and bought it back in 2021 and have been refurbing it since. The other owner put in 2" belts. When I belt in with the HANS, I don't have confidence that the 2" shoulder belts won't slide off the sides in frontal impact. That's why I want 3" shoulder belts, which I've always used with this HANS. The lap and submarines can be 2". Thanks, Cory

The HANS was designed at a time when 3" wide shoulder belts were the norm. It works equally as well with 2", but in both cases, the shoulder mounting points at the frame should be no further the 6" apart.

[cory mcleod]

The HANS was designed at a time when 3" wide shoulder belts were the norm. It works equally as well with 2", but in both cases, the shoulder mounting points at the frame should be no further the 6" apart.

Thank you! I will check the mounting points.

[cory mcleod]

To close the loop on this - Simpson hooked me up with a semi-custom set of belts. It took them two tries to get it right, but now I have a set of 3" belts with bolt-in lap belts and submarine straps.

Thanks again for all the responses, especially to Jim Edmonds for recommending Simpson.

Cory