The new Formula Mazda FMzR

[IzzyD]

I've been considering a FM or PFM for quite some time now. Not looking to become a professional race car driver as I'm just a recent empty nester looking to fulfill a lifelong dream of driving open wheel race cars. I've seen pictures of the new FMzR and have corresponded with Sitara at FM. They're very nice folks and they have promptly responded to my inquiring emails.

Have any of you seen the new FMzR? Kindly share your thoughts or suggestions for a "Old Newbie" like me trying to get behind the wheel.

Cheers,
IzzyD

[Adriancnh]

What is your road course experience level?

[BorkRacing]

Lots of people will chime in and say start with something easier to drive. They are right!

Yes the FM is sexy but not having fun because it's too much of a car isn't.

Start with a FV or Club Ford in Vintage events. Everyone is friendly and helpful and you will learn to drive well faster and for a lot less money.

Go to the Bertil Roos School in Jupiter FLA too!

Robby

[Adriancnh]

^exactly, Op if you are a fresh fresh, even a club FF will blow your mind and you'll actually learn a thing or two. Formula cars realistically need to be done in tiers no matter how good one thinks he is.

[Marty Nygard]

Well Izzy, I'll be a little contrarian here but if you have the money, buy the car you want. Just make sure you have the money left over for a pro driving instructor and lots of track time. Good luck and have fun.
Marty

[Mike B]

There was an interesting article posted here earlier this year:
https://www.apexspeed.com/forums/sho...=gates+ladders
While not exactly this scenario, the responses here and in other similar threads remind of it. In this case Apexspeed is the old people and any new member with fresh enthusiasm is the young person (regardless of age).


We (Apexspeed community) assume a new member has no experience and no regard for the safety of himself or the people around him. It's a strange human phenomena that we always assume the worst.

I'm with Marty, buy whatever car you want and can afford. If that's an FMzR, go for it. If it's an Indy Car, even better!

Have a blast, be smart, and take lots of pictures.

[Dwayne Anderson]

The FMzr is stunning. They are testing it right now will be easier to maintain than the Pro FM

[CGOffroad]

Car selection will also depend on what you want to do. Do you want to 1) RACE, 2) Drive a fun car

1) RACE: Decide how far you are willing to tow for attending events. Look at what class of cars are in that area and decide which class you want to support

2) Drive a fun car: Not much to be said here. Go buy whatever looks sexy to you, and will give you the most enjoyment. Don't forget there are other people on the track with you when driving this car.

[TexasDad]

The FMzR is a fabulous car. I was drooling over it again Sunday when I was out there. It is designed to be a car capable of being driven by someone with little to no prior experience. The FM operating costs are more than the FMzR. I'm not sure there is a better option out there in a new OW race car for a driver like you/me who wants all the cool new features in a fun to drive car that looks awesome and doesn't cost a fortune to run.

[Rick Kirchner]

geeze. Moses builds an FC....

[Lotus7]

geeze. Moses builds an FC....

agreed.
Pointy-end-of-the-grid FC cars can be had for 30-40k, yet people seem to want to spend twice that…
perhaps a recent FE2 or future FMzR buyer will join in and educate us.

[LarryWinkelman]

The FMzR is a fabulous car. I was drooling over it again Sunday when I was out there. It is designed to be a car capable of being driven by someone with little to no prior experience. The FM operating costs are more than the FMzR. I'm not sure there is a better option out there in a new OW race car for a driver like you/me who wants all the cool new features in a fun to drive car that looks awesome and doesn't cost a fortune to run.

It seems to me that Moses and team have designed... an FE2. I haven't seen purchase or running cost projections, but it's hard for me to imagine that it could be less to buy than a good, used FE2 with data, camera, and spares - but it's probably less than a new FE2 (not sure if anyone's actually bought a new FE2, though). Nor do I think that it could be much (or any) less expensive to run. So, I'm scratching my head a bit. Would love for some facts to actually emerge.

[Rick Kirchner]

just add it to FC

[OneWayOut]

What is your road course experience level?

You mean, what is your kart racing experience level?

Introducing the All-New FMzR
Formula Mazda has done it again with the ideal transition from kart racing to open wheel cars.
https://www.formulamazda.com/

[E1pix]

Note that the opening poster came here as an admitted newbie finally getting to race, likely after working his ass off and dreaming to do so forever, and a lot of you guys ran him off like he’s not even qualified to do it.

Now note that he hasn’t posted again.

I recall a famed quote from Lake Speed, “A Formula Ford is just a big, slow kart.” I seriously doubt he meant a Club Ford would “blow anyone’s mind.”

Gimme a break. I’ve known plenty of people finding speed in short order — Kimi’s 19th race of any kind EVER was in a F1 car.

No wonder people find something else to do.

[Adriancnh]

Note that the opening poster came here as an admitted newbie finally getting to race, likely after working his ass off and dreaming to do so forever, and a lot of you guys ran him off like he’s not even qualified to do it.

Now note that he hasn’t posted again.

I recall a famed quote from Lake Speed, “A Formula Ford is just a big, slow kart.” I seriously doubt he meant a Club Ford would “blow anyone’s mind.”

Gimme a break. I’ve known plenty of people finding speed in short order — Kimi’s 19th race of any kind EVER was in a F1 car.

No wonder people find something else to do.

You think a mere friendly suggestion scared him off? I have seen a hell of a lot of people get their ass handed to them by formula cars. Fact is, for most, a FF or FV is a good way to see if you actually like it rather than spend the money on a brand new FM and end up hating it..

[CGOffroad]

I was track driving a supercharged Lotus 7 type car when I got the idea I wanted to purchase a formula car. A friend who was driving an FM at the time gave me some advice. He told me that prior to purchasing a car, I should experience driving a formula car. He reckons that most people fit into two categories. 1) those which love formula cars and don't really want to drive other forms of track cars 2) those which just aren't comfortable with the fit of car, open top, etc.

Under his advice I enrolled in one of Allen Bergs formula car schools. The one day class was enough that I was convinced to buy a car. Yep, I fit into group 1. The experience was fantastic and I met people in that school which I kept contact info from, and have had a need to reach out to them on a couple of occasions.

I still think this is very good advice and if someone hasn't been in a formula car, doing a school is a way to experience that. It is also a good way of polishing up some skills that have gotten rusty, or develop some new skills. I think most of the schools have a program that will run 2 or 3 days and you can get a racing license from them as well.

[Randy9182]

Current FM owner and driver. My car is housed at Texas Autosports at Cresson Motorsports Ranch. I am at the track almost every weekend that the track is open. I have had many chances to play feel and touch with the prototype. All indications are it is going to be a great car. After a year or so of watching the build and the engineering of the car I went all in and bought one. The original plan was to build 25 cars in the first build. I almost waited to late. I am the 17th build of the 25. A week after I bought mine they had sold 22 of the 25. Haven't checked it lately.
The FMzR is being tested now on track. I have watched it on track, have sat in it and been on track with it. Moses sat me in the car and gave me a full explanation of everything about the car. I was impressed. After one test session I ask Moses how it drove. His response was "Better than I expected." He once said that, "Everything he disliked about the cars he has raced in the past have been fixed in this one." He was testing spring rates that day and taking it easy so I was able to make a pass in my FM. I am sure that will not happen again.
For those who think it will be too much car, the car has been built with the ex-cart racer in mine or the entry level driver. Not to say this is a toy, this is a state of the art race car. The report is that it is easy to drive. I will see about that. It is planned to run in the FA class. According to Moses it will not stay up with the true FA's but it will run with the rest. Hopefully after enough cars are running it will have it's own class. The best thing is, it is new. Every mile I put on it will be mine.
I considered Pro Mazda, FA and FE2. The FE2 was the best of the rest in my opinion. After long though, I choose the FMzR. I think you just have to see it. Pictures don't do it justice.
My opinion, I hope this helps.

[Extreme1]

I bought my first formula car, a Pro Mazda about 10 months ago. I didn’t have any prior formula car experience, but I did race a kart when I was younger, and raced off-road more recently.

If you want a formula car, get one. You will be overwhelmed at first, but find someone that knows these cars and you will learn quickly. When you first go to the track, go on a quiet day. You can go slow and shift between first and second gear all day if you want. Stay far away from other cars and don’t try to pass until you are really comfortable. For sure find an instructor that can spend time with you at the track.

[Hartley]

Current FM owner and driver. My car is housed at Texas Autosports at Cresson Motorsports Ranch. I am at the track almost every weekend that the track is open. I have had many chances to play feel and touch with the prototype. All indications are it is going to be a great car. After a year or so of watching the build and the engineering of the car I went all in and bought one. The original plan was to build 25 cars in the first build. I almost waited to late. I am the 17th build of the 25. A week after I bought mine they had sold 22 of the 25. Haven't checked it lately.
The FMzR is being tested now on track. I have watched it on track, have sat in it and been on track with it. Moses sat me in the car and gave me a full explanation of everything about the car. I was impressed. After one test session I ask Moses how it drove. His response was "Better than I expected." He once said that, "Everything he disliked about the cars he has raced in the past have been fixed in this one." He was testing spring rates that day and taking it easy so I was able to make a pass in my FM. I am sure that will not happen again.
For those who think it will be too much car, the car has been built with the ex-cart racer in mine or the entry level driver. Not to say this is a toy, this is a state of the art race car. The report is that it is easy to drive. I will see about that. It is planned to run in the FA class. According to Moses it will not stay up with the true FA's but it will run with the rest. Hopefully after enough cars are running it will have it's own class. The best thing is, it is new. Every mile I put on it will be mine.
I considered Pro Mazda, FA and FE2. The FE2 was the best of the rest in my opinion. After long though, I choose the FMzR. I think you just have to see it. Pictures don't do it justice.
My opinion, I hope this helps.

I was just on the FM website. Intriguing but no photos, no prices, no HP numbers. Who would give a deposit if you dont know what you are getting and what the final cost is?! Am I missing something? I do like the 6 speed gearbox option. The five speed sequential in my MZR USF2000 car has some ‘dead spots’ until the revs come up. How can this car run in FA unless they have a big HP boost?

[schiconst]

Izzy, did you join the SCCA yet? You need to, and go to watch some races. Formula cars are the most fun you can have with your pants on!! Good luck and Happy Holidays, John FF#69

[lowside67]

I was just on the FM website. Intriguing but no photos, no prices, no HP numbers. Who would give a deposit if you dont know what you are getting and what the final cost is?! Am I missing something?

The idea that 22 people have signed up to buy a new car which has no information and 0 chance of a competitive landing spot in SCCA seems downright implausible. "Will run with the rest of FA" is a stretch - the idea this will run with an F1000, PFM, or F3 seems hard to imagine unless they are going to be building an FA level motor which defeats the budget purpose of this car.

The conspiracy theorist in me has trouble with accepting the word of a brand new, no history member posting what seems to be a bit of a shill to sell the product. But I could be totally wrong, it just seems all very hard to imagine.

-Mark

[Adriancnh]

The idea that 22 people have signed up to buy a new car which has no information and 0 chance of a competitive landing spot in SCCA seems downright implausible. "Will run with the rest of FA" is a stretch - the idea this will run with an F1000, PFM, or F3 seems hard to imagine unless they are going to be building an FA level motor which defeats the budget purpose of this car.

The conspiracy theorist in me has trouble with accepting the word of a brand new, no history member posting what seems to be a bit of a shill to sell the product. But I could be totally wrong, it just seems all very hard to imagine.

-Mark

It's all because I scared him off lol.. probably ran crying to a tin top

[E1pix]

It's all because I scared him off lol.. probably ran crying to a tin top

I hope he realized there’s too many privileged wankers in racing these days, and bought a nice, relaxing sailboat instead.

Happy Holidays.

[Bealsnks]

I put a deposit on a FMzR in Nov. 2020

I am currently #4 build on the wait list.

I have never raced cars before. My background is in 1000/600cc motorcycle racing and I am still an active expert plate holder in CMRA. In the past year I have been karting with KA100's and X30's to prepare for taking an OW on track.

I did a lot of research before making this purchase. For me maintenance / local support / durability all played a huge role in my selection of an open wheel.

I looked at F4 car's but racing at the club level for F4 did not seem very popular. Many friends and acquaintances who raced F4 at a younger age advised away from those cars and recommended the FE2 as a more fun car to drive.

I live in Texas so I could have gone the FE2 route as there is support in the Houston area. However my biggest problem with FE's is that they are $85k new or find a used car / invest to upgrade to a FE2 and come out with a car that cost as much as an FMzR and still be a 10-15 year old USED open wheel.

I'm 35, with a professional career for 12 years, this is my midlife crisis purchase. I wanted something new / fun to drive / with modern equipment.

Here are a few updated photos of the test mule:

[problemchild]

The idea that 22 people have signed up to buy a new car which has no information and 0 chance of a competitive landing spot in SCCA seems downright implausible. "Will run with the rest of FA" is a stretch - the idea this will run with an F1000, PFM, or F3 seems hard to imagine unless they are going to be building an FA level motor which defeats the budget purpose of this car.

The conspiracy theorist in me has trouble with accepting the word of a brand new, no history member posting what seems to be a bit of a shill to sell the product. But I could be totally wrong, it just seems all very hard to imagine.

-Mark

It is the most curious of presentations, seemingly fighting potential negativity by doing zero promotion, and offering no public response to questions on the general forum of the OW community. I too, am intrigued by the business model. I saw what I thought was a very clean new FE2 car on display at the 2020 Runoffs. Being so similar to a FE2 or FC car, why would it not be made to fit into one of those classes, rather than FA? Or is that the secret plan? I, like many in the FC community, would welcome it and the USF cars into the FC class. On that same topic ..... one has to wonder if the complete and utter lack of communication from our fearless leaders means that there is energetic politicking going on behind the scenes ..... or absolutely nothing.

[E1pix]

There’s five posts above from people who’ve seen or ordered one of these cars, and I see nothing but positives in those perspectives.

One’s from the camp of the quickest FM car at the Runoffs, another from a longtime, front-running Runoffs competitor from as far back as the ‘70s, another from a longtime bike racer that we owe a welcome to... and I struggle to see anything not to be believed at their word.

If indeed 25 of these are initially to be built, the idea that Chassis #1 is still getting vigorously wrung the heck out before building the rest makes perfect — if not uncommonly-responsible — sense. If I were in line for one, I’d encourage it!

One also wonders if the car could be legalized for Formula X, by whatever future means and perhaps following a Series local to the builder, and thus an easier sell to the FM crowd wanting to keep going — after that old-but-fun formula was thrashed at the Runoffs.

I realize it’s generally expected to be told details in advance, but overall I won’t believe that five people got on here raving about a new car as part of an organized BS campaign. Man...... is there a better way to permanently trash a builder’s reputation in this tight group?

Time will tell, but if a builder can generate enough interest without the web — and constantly attending back-and-forth threads that could go down like this one — I’d personally carry on with the project without the cyber hassles.

Word-of-mouth can still rule if done well... in fact, it can be the best way to get it done right, and announce nothing until truly ready. First impression, and all that.

Best of Luck to Moses and all involved.

[Bealsnks]

It is the most curious of presentations, seemingly fighting potential negativity by doing zero promotion, and offering no public response to questions on the general forum of the OW community. I too, am intrigued by the business model. I saw what I thought was a very clean new FE2 car on display at the 2020 Runoffs. Being so similar to a FE2 or FC car, why would it not be made to fit into one of those classes, rather than FA? Or is that the secret plan? I, like many in the FC community, would welcome it and the USF cars into the FC class. On that same topic ..... one has to wonder if the complete and utter lack of communication from our fearless leaders means that there is energetic politicking going on behind the scenes ..... or absolutely nothing.

Ha! I'm a real person and my only affiliation to Texas Autosports is that they have a large chunk of my money while I wait for the FMzR to go into production.

The only reason why I joined this forum after putting a deposit down on a car was for an education and to see pictures. I had no intentions of ever adding input or value to the community because of my current lack of experience.

I do however know a little about motorcycles orgs drying up across the country... and a causal factor of why this is happening is the amount of negativity and dismissal among the members / community of a new idea. If you truly believe an idea is incorrect sit back and wait. Time and market always sorts things out in the end.

That's why I am here today and not investing in racing motorcycles in the future. :\

[wickedlite44]

For those that have put money down on one, what does total pricing look like?

[Dwayne Anderson]

For those that have put money down on one, what does total pricing look like?

https://www.formulamazda.com/ Here is where the info is on the car, if a price is needed you can fill out the form and inquire

Dwayne

[wickedlite44]

https://www.formulamazda.com/ Here is where the info is on the car, if a price is needed you can fill out the form and inquire

Dwayne

I tried that a few weeks ago and no contact yet.

[BrianT1]

Its a nice looking car. More than likely it will fall under Formula X for SCCA but what most people on here probably don't understand is that a car like this will show well at a motorsports club like Texas Autosports. Which is clearly where it is being marketed and most of the initial buyers are coming from.

People that belong to a club environment like that will create there own race groups and the more people they see buying them and racing will want one. Hell if they get 25 cars in they're area they have a really good race group. Thats how all this works, monkey see monkey do. I race in FC and we are getting a lot of traction from the positive outcome of the car count at the runoffs. New cars are being made with a lot of new things coming for the future.

Brian

[Randy9182]

FYI, Let me tell you what I know. I had a spec sheet but I can not find it.
The engine is a Mazda 4 cylinder which is naturally asperated, producing 209 HP.
The steering wheel is fully electronic with paddle shifters. The porotype has no cockpit gauges. All the information is displayed on the wheel. Not sure about the production model gauges, but the wheel will be the same.
The original price was 65K. With the supply problems now days, the price has risen to 69K, I believe. I quit asking after I bought mine. I think there is a price increase to 71K after the first of the year. 1/2 down the rest when the frame is built out. There are 5 frames in the garage the last time I looked. There is always a delay. Now they are waiting on one suspension part. The real price can only be determined by talking to Satara at Texas Autosports. A phone call is the best way to talk with them. Never had a problem when calling.
They are very busy.
Once I get mine, I would love to run in the FX class but that is not what is planned. I have been on the track with this thing in my FM and it blew my doors off.
Yes most of the buys have been from Texas. I believe that is because we have had the good luck to see the development of this car over the last couple of years and have seen the car in person.
25 cars was the initial build plan. Like any new venture they made a plan and had faith the plan would work. It seems to be working. So they ordered 25 engines and 25 transmissions which have been stored in the garage. I am sure they will build more if the demand is there.
Since I am build 17, I have not tracked the orders since. Last I checked it was 22 but that was over a month ago.
To address the what if question, yes I admit there is risk to buying a race car and not taking it home. I considered this long and hard. I said I wanted to see the car on the track before I bought. And I did. Yes we may be 22 fool hardy racers. Any thing can happen. Seeing those 25 engines and transmissions every time I am there showed me this was not a hope plan. It was real. They have several million dollars invested in the development of this car. I had to take the opportunity or get left behind.

[Chris Livengood]

Who is building the car? Firman?

[lowside67]

If the car is ~$70k with a modern 4 cyl dry sump engine, pneumatic paddle shifting, data, ready to race that's great value IMO.

-Mark

[Fred Michael]

Who is building the car? Firman?

Pretty sure that it is Moses Smith

[Chris Livengood]

If the car is ~$70k with a modern 4 cyl dry sump engine, pneumatic paddle shifting, data, ready to race that's great value IMO.

-Mark

What was the the out the door price for the F4 car?

[Adriancnh]

What was the the out the door price for the F4 car?

I imagine a lot more being a carbon tub vs this tube chassis car

[Chris Livengood]

Pretty sure that it is Moses Smith

Ahh, I should have read closer in the earlier posts.

[Bealsnks]

What was the the out the door price for the F4 car?

An F4 car is $55,500 from Ligier (does not include an engine)
The engine from HPD is $21,600 + $950 to ship to Ligier
Ligier charges and additional $2,000 to assemble the car

So total cost is just over $80K