FM for open wheel autocross (probably BM)

[bluesight]

Looks like this forum isn't real active. But, hopefully, some folks are watching. I'm considering a Formula Mazda (not pro) as a reliable and fun open-wheel autocross option. An F500 would be more available and cheaper, but I don't think I would survive the lack of a real suspension (may as well get a shifter kart). F1000s and FFs seem pretty expensive (and/or well aged). And I've been warned off of Vees. What I am specifically interested in is finding a partner around Tampa, FL. I have only been getting down there from December through March (dreaded snowbird). But I get to as many AX events as possible during the season. Last season, it was with a '99 Miata at maybe 18 events. The ideal partner would co-drive during "my" season and hold/drive the FM for the rest (Apr through Nov). I could also consider acquiring an FM solo, but it seems like a bit of a waste to have to store it for 8 months of the year.

Any recommendations of where to find a nice FM down in FL? I see there have been some listed in the Daytona area that seem semi-reasonable. But I can't do anything in person until after Dec 1.

[Josh R.]

Looks like this forum isn't real active. But, hopefully, some folks are watching. I'm considering a Formula Mazda (not pro) as a reliable and fun open-wheel autocross option. An F500 would be more available and cheaper, but I don't think I would survive the lack of a real suspension (may as well get a shifter kart). F1000s and FFs seem pretty expensive (and/or well aged). And I've been warned off of Vees. What I am specifically interested in is finding a partner around Tampa, FL. I have only been getting down there from December through March (dreaded snowbird). But I get to as many AX events as possible during the season. Last season, it was with a '99 Miata at maybe 18 events. The ideal partner would co-drive during "my" season and hold/drive the FM for the rest (Apr through Nov). I could also consider acquiring an FM solo, but it seems like a bit of a waste to have to store it for 8 months of the year.

Any recommendations of where to find a nice FM down in FL? I see there have been some listed in the Daytona area that seem semi-reasonable. But I can't do anything in person until after Dec 1.

I’ve autocrossed mine a handful of times and even with the shortest first gear ($$$ if it doesn’t come with the car and not “FM” legal, so is it still BM legal?) it sucks on most Regional style courses. I also crushed 2 finish cones at about 70 mph and it did a WHOLE bunch of damage. The last time I autoxed it did the clutch in. So I’m not doing that anymore. The droid you're after *is* an FF. One that’s aged out of road racing can still be competitive in C Mod.

[pleavens]

https://www.apexspeed.com/forums/sho...l=1#post629209

I have a BMOD now (2014 Stohr WF1) and this was my previous CMOD car. 98 Van Diemen Honda powered. Very reliable, very easy to drive, very competitive, and this particular car is very reasonably priced.

Phil

[bluesight]

I’ve autocrossed mine a handful of times and even with the shortest first gear ($$$ if it doesn’t come with the car and not “FM” legal, so is it still BM legal?) it sucks on most Regional style courses. I also crushed 2 finish cones at about 70 mph and it did a WHOLE bunch of damage. The last time I autoxed it did the clutch in. So I’m not doing that anymore. The droid you're after *is* an FF. One that’s aged out of road racing can still be competitive in C Mod.

Thanks for that advice...VERY welcomed...I'm not worried about being competitive since I only go to regionals...few if any A/B/C Mods show up. I'll look more at FF. Up in the Midwest (like WI where I am), they run (had been running) something called a Formula Mini on oval tracks. It may be similar to an F1000. Motorcycle/snowmobile engine, sequential shift (for motorcycle) and an actual rear suspension. They have come up for really great prices occasionally up here, but they are kind of outliers for classing. And I don't think they exist down in the south (FL specifically). Maybe I'll need to look at the next best thing to true Formula open wheel and try to find an Atom, Goblin or Lotus 7 replica. Thanks again...

PS...I guess the Formula Minis go by a couple of names...Mini Formula Indy and Mini Indy Formula. Discussed a little bit here on the Apex Speed site. Doesn't appear as a separate "class". This shows a bit more of the rear suspension...

[lowside67]

If I wanted a fun, fast at autocross, cool, and cheap car and was not overly considered about classing - I'd strongly think about a Legends car. They make great noises, with proper slicks are pretty quick at an autocross, and huge bang for the buck.

-Mark

[mikey]

I've auto-crossed (for fun) an FE car and a Lotus Super 7 replica.
If you're not trying to be competitive in any certain class and just want to use auto-x for seat time, use the car you will take to the big track.
If you don't plan to go to the big track, then I'd strongly consider a Lotus Super 7 replica or Aerial Atom that can be tagged for street use as well. It could greatly reduce your logistics of getting to the auto-x if you so choose, plus give you another way to enjoy the car besides 30-60 second parking lot cone crushing.

[bluesight]

FE = Formula Enterprise NOT FE the EV kind...I got confused...

[Jim Garry]

A Formula Mazda or Formula Enterprises car can run in B Mod and does not have to be GCR legal. As per the BMod Solo Rules, they would meet the definition of "Specials". Here are the rules for Specials, below. You could change the gears in those cars to work well for Solo and still be eligible for BMod.

Formula cars not conforming to the GCR eligible for BM, CM, or FM are considered Specials. The competitor must have the referenced GCR in his possession during the event. Exceptions to the GCR are as follows:
18.4 SPECIALSCars not otherwise classified which meet the following minimum specifications are considered as Specials and are assigned to Modified class A (AM). A. Bodywork 1. Any bodywork used must be made of metal, fiberglass, or other suitable fire resistant materials. Body panels are not required except as specified in section 18.4.A.3. 2. Full and unobstructed access to the driver’s seat must be provided. 3. Firewall and floor shall prevent the passage of flame and debris to the driver’s compartment. Belly pans shall be vented to prevent the accumulation of liquids. 4. Fenders are optional and design of same is free. Sharp edges are not allowed. 5. Minimum of one seat, capable of supporting the driver in an upright or semi-reclining position is required. Location of the driver’s seat is unrestricted.

B. Chassis1. May be of any construction deemed safe. 2. Minimum wheelbase is 72.0” (182.88 cm). 3. Minimum track is 42.0” (106.68 cm) front & rear. 4. Minimum wheel diameter is 10”. 5. All four wheels will be sprung from the chassis. 6. Brakes must conform to those specifications listed in Section 3.3.3.B.13. The brakes shall be a dual system, arranged in a manner to provide braking for at least two wheels in the event of failure in part of the system. 7. A roll bar conforming to Appendix C is required. 8. Five-, six-, or seven-point driver restraint systems are required per Club Racing GCR Section 9.3.19. 9. Vehicles shall have a Master Cutoff switch complying with Club Racing GCR Section 9.3.34. 10. Aerodynamic devices may not have an overall width greater than 75.0” (190.50 cm). 11. No aerodynamic device may extend more than 66.0” (167.64 cm) above the ground. 12. The total area of all wings shall not exceed 20 sq. ft. (129.03 cm2), computed as previously described in Section 18.0, Modified Category, “Aerodynamics.” 13. Movable side skirts are allowed. 14. The sides, front, and back of the cockpit area must be at least as high as the driver’s waist.

[Bill Schmidt]

If I wanted a fun, fast at autocross, cool, and cheap car and was not overly considered about classing - I'd strongly think about a Legends car. They make great noises, with proper slicks are pretty quick at an autocross, and huge bang for the buck.

-Mark

A Legend would be fun, but a Dwarf would be much faster. They run in F-Mod class.

[lowside67]

A Legend would be fun, but a Dwarf would be much faster. They run in F-Mod class.

Sorry, that's what I meant. An FM Dwarf, I get the Dwarf and Legends confused some times.

-Mark

[bluesight]

I'd really like an open wheel car for AX, mainly to see the (front) wheels/tires coming so close the the cones. But I do need a (rear) suspension, so things get pretty costly pretty quick. The Dwarf cars look interesting, but maybe too unique for my tastes. To keep things simple, I'll probably end up sticking with a Miata...either my own current '99 (stock), or maybe picking up a prep'd version (turbo or supercharged) down in FL that I'd like to leave on a trailer. Seems hard to find more fun for the $$...

[EYERACE]

FM in auto-X....
three considerations...........doubt you would ever get the car out of 1st gear........FM in auto-X sort of like a Great White shark in a goldfish bowl.....virtually any open wheel car at the end of a 55 second run would still not have its tires any where near proper temps

[t walgamuth]

https://www.apexspeed.com/forums/sho...l=1#post629209

I have a BMOD now (2014 Stohr WF1) and this was my previous CMOD car. 98 Van Diemen Honda powered. Very reliable, very easy to drive, very competitive, and this particular car is very reasonably priced.

Phil

Congratulations on the second place at Nationals!

[t walgamuth]

FM in auto-X....
three considerations...........doubt you would ever get the car out of 1st gear........FM in auto-X sort of like a Great White shark in a goldfish bowl.....virtually any open wheel car at the end of a 55 second run would still not have its tires any where near proper temps

The days that are good and hot for the tires are tough on an old man like me.

[t walgamuth]

Anybody running an Ariel atom?

[t walgamuth]

Anybody running an Ariel atom?

[TedV]

If you are looking at how close the front wheels are to the cones while on course, you are not looking far enough ahead. That is what video is for after the run. "I felt I was X inches off the cone." watch the video and see if you are X inches off the cone you thought you were. or go closer and a THUMP will tell you that was too close. I have autocrossed CM and KM among many other classes, if you are not looking at least 2 or 3 cones ahead, you will DNF and an HS car will beat your times.

Gearing is a huge item. You will not get past 75 to 85mph on most courses. many will be more in the 60-65mph range. Gear accordingly.

No spec tires in autocross. Open tire rule. So whatever soft compound Hoosier or Avon you can get to fit is best. Also, it is usually best to have a codriver to keep tires warm since even the softest road race or hill climb tires are usually not soft enough for autocross with a single driver and be competitive. Folks would be surprised how fast R25 Hoosiers will fire to temp in the south. I hose myself down with water, not the tires. Also, what brake pads are available? I ran some road race pads on the CM CFF and I could touch the rotor after the run. Hawk HPS made a world of difference. Do NOT get a 5th spring CFF for CM. Flexible chassis and sticky tires do not mix well.

A few Arial Atoms have been seen, but for the money, Exocet, Goblins and definitely cobra kit cars are seen more. A friend has a Goblin but I haven't gotten around to taking him up on the co-drive. I'd rather drive my shifter kart on a bumpy course than a Cobra kit car.

I have never damaged a mod car hitting a cone. Unless by finish cone folks are saying the huge 3' tall mega cones. those might hurt. Only damage I ever received was being 1st car off in CM, a bump leading to the finish was more disruptive than anticipated. Along with R25's sucking up all the grit resulted in a spin. Choice of hitting the timing lights or try to drive around them and risk going into the ditch with water in it.. I chose to lock down all 4 and hit the lights. Only cracked the fiberglass of the nose. They said they heard my 4 letter words inside the timing trailer. The grid worker who told me I just needed to cool it through the finish ended up having his codriver do the same thing I did, except he ended up hitting a telephone pole in the water ditch. After that they moved the finish back before the bump ..... Maybe hill climb/halo bars on open cockpit cars are a good idea? There is also a craptacular Ft Myers story but I will spare y'all that fiasco details. The Silent Car Club of America does not let people know any bad things that happen at autocross.