F500

[Captainrags]

I have just purchased a F500 with a bombardier 494 motor for a project rebuild. Not sure of its make at this time. I’m looking for all sorts of information on these cars, oils, fuels, mixtures, parts, setups, literature, etc. I believe the car was used for solo west coast Florida and wondering if it can also be used for road racing.
Thank you.

[Jnovak]

If itbis a very old v 73" wheelbase car you may have tp change the roll bars if they are the early apec rules 8f v the roll bars are 1..25" diameter they will have to be changed to 1.375 diameter. Chèck thecruls and the bars on the car just to be sure. Check thecwall thickness too!

[Jnovak]

I have just purchased a F500 with a bombardier 494 motor for a project rebuild. Not sure of its make at this time. I’m looking for all sorts of information on these cars, oils, fuels, mixtures, parts, setups, literature, etc. I believe the car was used for solo west coast Florida and wondering if it can also be used for road racing.
Thank you.

Post a picture. Did yôu get a log book with the car? If so the roll bar specs will be in the log book!

[GBugg]

Definitely need pictures to be able to offer any specific help. These cars vary significantly - make to make, year to year.

Are you planning to race it wheel to wheel, or run SOLO with it?

Welcome to the party!

[Captainrags]

Thank you all for your response I have attached some pictures, and as yet haven’t searched for number, I believe should be on the roll bar.
The roll bar OD is 1 and 3/8”. There was no log book with car. It know it will need a complete rebuild I did one to my FF. For now it’s education I need and would appreciate any help.
I don’t see any solo events around here in south fla, so was wondering about road racing 500,s.

[cory mcleod]

Center gear on rear axle and short drive belt - Phantom?

UPDATE: My post above is incorrect. The car has been identified as a Zink.

[sathorp]

To answer your question! Your car has a roll bar that meets the current GCR rule it can be road raced with a Rotax 494 engine in the F500 Club Racing Class. Last year there were 5 Rotax 494 powered cars that participated in SCCA Major Events and 1 Rotax 494 powered car that participated in the SCCA Runoffs at Road America. So, yes, your Rotax 494 powered car with a legal F500 chassis can be road raced in the F500 Class. But based on class participation a Rotax 494 powered car is not the preferred engine for SCCA Club Racing. There were also no F500 cars with a Phantom chassis that participated in SCCA Major events last year,

Currently F500 is not approved Nationally for Vintage Racing. To the best of my knowledge proposals to make F500 Rotax 494, 493, & other 500cc powered cars legal for Vintage Racing have been sent to VSCDA & SVRA. These proposals are still being worked by Mark Volbrecht. A Vintage Racing Event is being planned at Road America for this fall for Rotax 494, 493, & other 500cc Vintage cars ONLY. Also, I think Mark is planning to race the Rotax 494 Powered Phantom he’s been working on at the fall Vintage race.

[Jnovak]

The phantoms were very nice race cars imo

[Helghast7]

Last time I saw that thing for sale the guy said it was an 86 zink

[GBugg]

@sathorp - That’s fantastic news that some of the 500 cars might be eligible for Vintage!

[sathorp]

@sathorp - That’s fantastic news that some of the 500 cars might be eligible for Vintage!

Mark is working to get older 500cc powered F500 cars eligible for Vintage. Personally, I would like to see F500 eligible in the SVRA National Organization so F500 can go to the Vintage National Championship at COTA that's held every November.

[Captainrags]

Last time I saw that thing for sale the guy said it was an 86 zink

I think same car. I dident believe him on the year or design.

[Captainrags]

The phantoms were very nice race cars imo

Thanks for the info. Would like to find out more about phantom. Where and contact if possible.

I also flag when not racing my FF I was Flaging, at turn 9 at the nationals at Homstead last week.but didn't get time to talk to any of the 500 guys.

[sathorp]

Thanks for the info. Would like to find out more about phantom. Where and contact if possible.

I also flag when not racing my FF I was Flaging, at turn 9 at the nationals at Homstead last week.but didn't get time to talk to any of the 500 guys.

For information on the Phantom chassis I would contact Mark Volbrecht his user name on this Forum is Mark 21.

I'm pretty sure all the F500 cars that were at Homestead were 600cc Motorcycle cars. I don't think there was a 2-Stroke car at Homestead this year, but I may be wrong.

What is in your car is a Rotax 494 2-Stroke Engine out of a Ski Doo Snowmobile. So you need to talk to someone that has background and knowlege in these 2-Stroke Engines. Mark is also and excellent source for information on the engine you have. Another good contact for engine information would be Mike Quadrini Cell Phone No. (914) 469-7067. You can only contact Mike by phone he's not on forums and he doesn't use Email.

If you want to look for Engine Information online, the engine you have is a Rotax 494 Non-Rave that was installed in Ski Doo 500 Snowmobiles that were Manufactured from 1996-1997. Also, looking a your photos the car is currently setup for Autocross. There are changes that will be required to make car ready for road racing.

Another place for information is the SCCA F500 & FModified Facebook Page.

[Garey Guzman]

Last time I saw that thing for sale the guy said it was an 86 zink

I think same car. I dident believe him on the year or design.

There was a Zink Z19 F500 car. I have no idea how many were built but I believe they started making them in 1984.

[Bill Schmidt]

From the looks of the pedals in the photos, I am pretty sure it is a 73 inch wheelbase car.

[sathorp]

From the looks of the pedals in the photos, I am pretty sure it is a 73 inch wheelbase car.

The Wheelbase should be measured. I purchased a KBS Mk3 that I thought was a 73" WB by looking at it.
It was 80" when I measured it.

[Tom Grossmann]

So off on one of my usual tangents; I am a bit perplexed as why some vintage groups would even question one of these cars. These cars are 30+ years old. When I ran mine VARA put me in the wings and slicks group which seemed to be a good fit.

I'm hopeful that people will see these older cars as a low cost entry into a vintage single seater. The same reasons that make them appealing for modern racing apply even more for vintage. This far I've spent just over 5k on mine; that includes the $1300 to ship the car cross country.

[sathorp]

I don't understand how all these Vintage Groups work or how they're organized? The guy that started this thread races a Vintage FF maybe he can help us get more F500's approved for Vintage Racing.

I have a 1989 KBS Mk5 with a Rotax 494 Engine it is also 30+ years old.

[mark 21]

[mark 21]

The blue car I believe is a early zink. The Phantoms had three different bodys during their production. The was the was body style. The Car that Dr. Dave has has the last body style that was made. Some of the early Phantoms had the later bodies put on them. The later Phantoms the top rails were wider then the bottom rails. Much like the KBS mk5 and mk 7s. Sorry for the upside down pictures

[Garey Guzman]

Thank you all for your response I have attached some pictures, and as yet haven’t searched for number, I believe should be on the roll bar.
The roll bar OD is 1 and 3/8”. There was no log book with car. It know it will need a complete rebuild I did one to my FF. For now it’s education I need and would appreciate any help.
I don’t see any solo events around here in south fla, so was wondering about road racing 500,s.

There are strong similarities to pictures I've seen recently labeled as a Zink Z19, which would make it a mid-1980's produced car. Unfortunately, Ed Zink passed away in 2003 so I'm not sure who knows much about them anymore.

[mark 21]

There are strong similarities to pictures I've seen recently labeled as a Zink Z19, which would make it a mid-1980's produced car. Unfortunately, Ed Zink passed away in 2003 so I'm not sure who knows much about them anymore.

I beleive the Zink F 440s were made by Brad Huling. The FV Zinks were from Mr. Zink. I do not know why Brad used that name. maybe Jay can shed some light on that.

[Garey Guzman]

I beleive the Zink F 440s were made by Brad Huling. The FV Zinks were from Mr. Zink. I do not know why Brad used that name. maybe Jay can shed some light on that.

I posted some pictures of some Z19s I found on my Zink-Citation Facebook page and Doug Zink, Ed's nephew, said:
A group of racers contracted Ed Zink to design the Z19 and later the Z22. These cars competed in SCCA classes F440, F500 and F5. Between 20 and 30 of these cars were produced.

[Steve Davis]

Maybe Ed DESIGNED them and Brad BUILT them ??

[Captainrags]

There are strong similarities to pictures I've seen recently labeled as a Zink Z19, which would make it a mid-1980's produced car. Unfortunately, Ed Zink passed away in 2003 so I'm not sure who knows much about them anymore.

Im still searching, I’d of the car I found two sets of numbers.
roll bar had 032693.
Found another on chassi right hand side near the front
086014.
The roll bar # indicates 03 is Atlanta region scca. called them left a message but I’ve heard no nothing back, it dosent seem like a phantom but is looking more like zing re your picture.
now need to replace belts looks like a nightmare job to replace the main drive because of brake and axle removal.

[Garey Guzman]

Im still searching, I’d of the car I found two sets of numbers.
roll bar had 032693.
Found another on chassi right hand side near the front
086014.
The roll bar # indicates 03 is Atlanta region scca. called them left a message but I’ve heard no nothing back, it dosent seem like a phantom but is looking more like zing re your picture.
now need to replace belts looks like a nightmare job to replace the main drive because of brake and axle removal.

The Roll bar number should get you the original car type and perhaps the original owner. Personally, I would send an email to the Region as it's a lot easier to forward an email to the right person than relay a phone message.

The "086014" may be a chassis number so I will ask some people I have come in contact with during my Zink research.

[mark 21]

The Roll bar number should get you the original car type and perhaps the original owner. Personally, I would send an email to the Region as it's a lot easier to forward an email to the right person than relay a phone message.

The "086014" may be a chassis number so I will ask some people I have come in contact with during my Zink research.

The Blue car is a zink chassis which was made by Brad Huling. The Phantom cars were made in Random Lake Wi. by Darryl Davis I helped him Build those cars. You own a zink. I have a friend that has one and the f440 zink were made by Brad Huling. I was trying to be politically polite by saying I think they were made by Brad. But I guess I have to be blunt. So this gentlemen will know what kind of car he owns. A tell tale sign is the upper A arms. Those were only found on the Zink cars that Brad had made. He had two designs the Zink 19 and the Zink 22. Mr Zink may have designed them for Brad but Brad had built them. That is why I asked Jay Novac to chime in on this because Jay is a close friend of Brads and he could help clarify. Also the blue car had a modified rear suspension from what came on the zink cars. Some of the zinks had the whole back end of the car pivot off the chassis from the rear roll hoop on. That included the motor swinging on the pivot. The later cars the 22s had a 4 link. But it was more complicated then what is on the car that this gentlemen has. Darryl Davis did modify some zinks for people to his 4 link setup but the one that is on this car is not one done by Davis.

[Captainrags]

The Roll bar number should get you the original car type and perhaps the original owner. Personally, I would send an email to the Region as it's a lot easier to forward an email to the right person than relay a phone message.

The "086014" may be a chassis number so I will ask some people I have come in contact with during my Zink research.

Previous owner (not a racer) found three logbooks that take me up to 05 so presume one is missing. No contact with previous owners however.
Main interest is finding a engine manual for a 494 yellow head cover has no rave valves don’t know if that’s a good thing or not need info on oiling ect.

[Garey Guzman]

Previous owner (not a racer) found three logbooks that take me up to 05 so presume one is missing. No contact with previous owners however.
Main interest is finding a engine manual for a 494 yellow head cover has no rave valves don’t know if that’s a good thing or not need info on oiling ect.

Can't help you with the engine stuff but from what the guys said on my Facebook page, your car would be a Z19. It's also very possible that the car hasn't been road raced since 2005, hence the lack of additional logbooks.

Wikipedia says that the engines were originally produced for Ski-Doo snowmobiles so perhaps you can find what you need with that type of search.

[cory mcleod]

Previous owner (not a racer) found three logbooks that take me up to 05 so presume one is missing. No contact with previous owners however.
Main interest is finding a engine manual for a 494 yellow head cover has no rave valves don’t know if that’s a good thing or not need info on oiling ect.

CDs of Ski-Doo manuals are easy and cheap to find online. You just have to know which sled your engine came from. I think I still have a manual for the 494 in your car and would be glad to send it to you. PM me if you are interested.

Cory

[cory mcleod]

Although the site is no longer being maintained and the forum is not active, there is still a ton of technical info for 2-stroke F500s on our old class forum site: F500.us.

I encourage anyone new to F500/FS with a 2-stroke car to spend some time on that site. What reminded me to post this is that there is a list on the site of what sleds each of the Rotax engines came from.

Cory

[mmi16]

I think the Fred Froelich was the last one to own and race the car. As I recall in the early 2000's Elevan Goulart rented the car from Fred and won the January National at Sebring with it.

Who knows where it has been since then only the Log Book can tell.

[mmi16]

Previous owner (not a racer) found three logbooks that take me up to 05 so presume one is missing. No contact with previous owners however.
Main interest is finding a engine manual for a 494 yellow head cover has no rave valves don’t know if that’s a good thing or not need info on oiling ect.

Just because the last entry in the Log Book is 2005 doesn't mean the Log Book is not current. Log Books are not required for Solo competitions only wheel to wheel road racing.

[Captainrags]

Just because the last entry in the Log Book is 2005 doesn't mean the Log Book is not current. Log Books are not required for Solo competitions only wheel to wheel road racing.

Log book states yes, Fred Froelich owned the car dates 10-7-92 he is listed as being in Tamarac Florida I would like to talk to him if I could get mail or phone. Looks like he sold it to a Terry Boylan dated 12-13-03 I think I found him on face book but didn't respond to a message. Cars in pretty neglected shape but coming together. Some logs book have benn wet hard to fully understand all entries.
Ray rags Weldon