newb questions

[texevora]

Contemplating getting into F1000 to scratch my long-standing single-seater open-wheel itch. Was hoping the ApexSpeed community could answer a few questions:

• What are the car counts in the US for the various F1000 chassis manufacturers? (JDR, Phoenix, Stohr, Firman, etc)?
• Which manufacturers still exist vs have gone kaput? Some of the websites appear to have not been touched in years.
• Do any chassis makes have the reputation of being inherently faster/slower than others?
• For the various chassis makes, which ones are easier/easiest to get spare parts for? Are there any that are nigh impossible?
• If you have a bone stock 1000cc engine and you leave the factory redline unchanged, how many hours of engine life do you get before needing a rebuild? How much does the answer change if you don't care about being at the pointy end of the field?

Thanks in advance!

[Kazis31]

Usual 2 cents.
Any F1000 really not a beginners car....

start slow get FE 1 for a first year.

[texevora]

I've been running an Ariel Atom with aero for several years on track, so I'm not overly concerned about the learning curve.

[Farrout48]

Just one anecdotal experience. I ran a bone stock junkyard 08 GSXR for 23 race weekends (might be some sort of a record), RillTech oil pan and carry 5 qts of oil. Only took it out because #2/#3 were down on compression. Still runs and is rebuildable. I do not rev to factory redline and tend to shift at 11500-12000. I gear up to max out at 12000-12500 on a long straight. A factory stock engine can run for a long time if you take care of it.

[S Lathrop]

If you are serious, this is an outstanding car. http://www.apexspeed.com/forums/show...Citation-F1000

If you think that this car might not be up to the current F1000 standards take a look at what the current F2000 Citations have been doing in the FRP F2000 series over many years.

Also there are several updates that can be adapted to this car that should bring it back to the performance level when it was being campaigned by Brandon Dixon.

And yes parts are available. And there are several guys who can give you a lot of help getting up to speed in this car.

[race14]

I see your in the DFW area? I am in Carrollton, Where have you been running the Ariel? MSP?

Jeff

I've been running an Ariel Atom with aero for several years on track, so I'm not overly concerned about the learning curve.

[texevora]

I'm at MSRC basically every weekend that the weather cooperates. Hoping to do the 3.1 config this weekend if it doesn't get too cold.

Do you run an F1000? Would love to see yours in person if so.

[lowside67]

It's worth noting that if you don't live in a geography that would allow you to run with the FRP race league, there isn't really a great home competitively for an F1000 these days. They are permitted to run under SCCA within the Formula Atlantic group but probably not the best choice if the goal is to campaign for a victory there.

I've been running an Ariel Atom with aero for several years on track, so I'm not overly concerned about the learning curve.

It is also worth noting that an Ariel Atom with some aero is not only a fair bit slower than an F1000, but is much simpler and less sophisticated in its ability to be setup. I wouldn't immediately dismiss the learning curve, the F1000 is one of the fastest amateur cars you can buy and a lot of that speed comes from its aero performance which is a lot less approachable than mechanical grip.

-Mark

[Thomas Copeland]

What I suggest you look at primarily if you're looking for a car is what/how to obtain spares. How difficult it would be. The more spares you can get with the purchase of a car the better, because obtaining any new spare parts may be difficult.

At one time around 2012-2013 when I was adminstrator for the F1000 Pro Series I counted 13 separate active F1000 manufacturers, which was more than any other class including Formula 1 at that time.

I would count many of the following as still active to some degree or another based on what you can get them to do for you or what spares you can get. Here's a full list of F1000 manufacturers I know of:

Purpose Built Cars:

JDR- this is the most active current purpose built manufacturer. Contact Jerry Hodges.

Stohr - I believe Stan Clayton can/will make any new car/spare parts you might order/need.

Phoenix - I'm sure you can get a new car and/or spares. Call either Gary Hickman or Dustin Wright

Firman - I've heard Ralph Jr is taking over for Ralph. Not sure how difficult it is to contact them these days. While sometimes slow, I normally get a response when I contact Angela Firman.

Galmer - Jose Garardo is the only one I know running this car but I think they are still capable of building cars and spare parts.

Aprilia - Not sure where these guys are at right now. Is the dealer still active? I heard the cars are currently in Colorado.

Philadelphia - Website still active. Not sure their status. http://www.phillymotorsports.com

Edge - Gary Hickman has chipped in with Phoenix I think. Beautiful car though.

Speads - Not sure status

Astra - Not sure status

Conversion Cars:

Van Diemen/Novacar - This is a conversion car kit for the Van Diemen F2000 chassis. Does Jay still sell these kits? Almost bought one myself. Spare parts you would get from one of the Baytos brothers.

Citation - Conversion from F2000. I'm sure they can put something to together for you.

Piper - Conversion car based off their F2000.

Tatuus - Conversion car based off their F2000.

Carbir - Conversion car based off their F2000.

Mygale - Conversion car based off their F2000.


For that matter you could convert any F2000 car for F1000 including the Firman F2000 car. So by that recokoning there could be 2 separate type of Firman F1000 cars available.

I think there is a couple of other one-offs. Can't remember their names off the top of my head. There were also some aborted efforts. TapaCat for instance. I think they started a car, never finished it.


As for who is faster I think it depends on the track. The aero is fairly wide open on these cars and I don't think any one has theirs dial in to optimal. I would go based on meeting minimum weight maybe. That and handling. I know the Firman I drive has some really good mechanical grip, but aero wise might be only a little bit better than a brick. But that's true of other cars too. I have also driven a Stohr. Nice car. Different feel than the Firman. It feels like there is more chassis flexing than the Firman. But pleasant to drive, for me anyway. Like the Firman lots of room in the cockpit. I tried to get into Randy Cook's JDR once but for me it was a one cheek only partially getting in experience. Might be because of his mods. I think the cockpit opening is wider now or supposely wide enough. The Galmer too was tight, but I managed it somehow. Sat in a Phoenix too, it has plenty of room.

[race14]

I am finishing up on a 4year build of a CF hope to get out to MSRC for its first shake down here within the next few months. Even though I have raced many types of cars, not sure I would want to jump right into a F1000, They look like a bit of a handful. But if I were to think about it I would look at Piper Engineering. Just my 2cents worth.

Jeff

I'm at MSRC basically every weekend that the weather cooperates. Hoping to do the 3.1 config this weekend if it doesn't get too cold.

Do you run an F1000? Would love to see yours in person if so.

[texevora]

@S Lathrop, thanks for the link, will check it out

@lowside67 understood on the learning curve... i didn't mean to come off as dismissive, it would definitely be steep! I just watched Jose's CotA video and the speeds at which the F1000s can carry through T16-18 is pretty mindblowing. To your competition-status question, I would probably stick to the lower-pressure SVRA out of the gate (if not permanently), as I'm not sure SCCA racing is for me.

@Thomas Copeland, super helpful overview, much appreciated.

[Thomas Copeland]

One thing I forgot:

I think the Phoenix has had CFD analysis on their aero and the updated Firman package definitely has had it. I helped set up the scan run by Capture3D. They digitized the entire Firman F1000 up at JFC Racing and the result of that and other updates was the 2014 Firman F1000. There are at least a couple of examples of the 2014 Firman running today (Doug Hertz is one). JR Osborne helped develop that chassis. Multiple wins at the Runoffs. You can buy the update package from Firman for the older chassis. Not sure of any CFD analysis done by any of the other manufacturers.

[S Lathrop]

One thing to remember about F1000 is that the rules governing the chassis and aerodynamic packages are the same as F2000. The only significant difference is that F1000 can use 8 and 10 wide by 13 inch wheels and F2000 uses 6 and 8 by 13 inch.

The one thing to note is the tires that are designed to fit those wider rimes are also designed for cars weighing several hundred pounds more than than a F1000. This may be the reason that some cars run a lot of aerodynamic loading in order to get good performance from their tires. This aerodynamic loading comes at a cost in the form aerodynamic drag. Take a look at the F2000 versions of the various F1000 to see what the performance potential with modest aerodynamic loading.

I will say that the Citation F1000 has been caught on radar at the runoffs at Daytona at over 170 mph.

[Ralph Z.]

Usual 2 cents.
Any F1000 really not a beginners car....

start slow get FE 1 for a first year.

What he says...

Top speed of a Citation/F1000 car at 170MPH? Do you really want to start there?

Not sure the F1000 is SVRA eligable. Check it out on the website.

Good luck.