When did F500 get so fast?

[Jnovak]

Jay Novak said

Imo there is no chançe for a 493 or a 494 to be competitive against either the 593 enginè or the 600.cc mc engines!



I will tell you how to fix that. Make the 593 cars run at 900 lbs, make the 600 cars run with a restrictor one size smaller, and make the 493 and 494 cars run at 800 lbs. Fixed, done deal.

I do not agree. I have been involved with this class for close to 40 years and my cars have won the runoffs 3 times, 1 time with a 494, 1 time with a 593 and 1 time with a 600cc Mc engine. So i think that i understand the technical requirements for the 3 most popular of the current engines. It is my opinion that the 600cc MC engines cannot be functionally be equalized with the 2 stroke engines. The reason for this is that the 2 stroke engine packages are VERY VERY DIFFICULT TO OPTIMIZE WHILE THE 600CC MC ENGINES ARE SPOT ON FOR EVERY SESSION!

I am not saying that competitive performance between the 2 strokes cant be done because we and 1 other team have beaten the 4 strokes a total of 2 times in the last 10 years or so and both times the 600cc bike motors had 30mm restrictors. So i am not saying that it cannot be done, i am simply stating that it requires a lot of knowledge. I think that F500 should be change to 2 separate classes. F500 should be 2 strokes only and F600 should be motorcycle engines only. Then run them in the same race with trophies for 1st and 2nd in each class. I think that equalizing the 494, the 493 and the 593 will be very easy and the 2 strokes will come back to the races.

I know that the 2 stroke guys are not my fans but who got the 494 engine approved in the way back?

[Jnovak]

1) Allow the 502 159-Degree Rotary Valve in all 494 Engines

2) Allow 40mm Carbs in the 494/493 Engines (was not in my first proposal)

3) Reduce Minimum Weight to 775lbs. in the 494/493 Powered Cars

Have you ever ran or tested a 494 engine with 40mm carbs?
I have and the do not make any more power!

[Jnovak]

IMO getting any performance adjustment approved is difficult.

Correct, the crb requires dyno data and this cost lots of $$$$$ i know!

[Jnovak]

F500 is a Restricted Class, it's not a Spec Class. The class restrictions need to be open enough to allow racers to build cars that are competitive within that set of class restrictions. If racers cannot build cars that are competitive within the class restrictions then the restrictions need to be changed.

You are correct sir. However there are many ways to make the 494 or the 493 engines competitive with the 593 engine!

[E1pix]

Not sure what your point is....

Sorry for my lack of clarity, Clint.

There were several references to 494 motors no longer being competitive — until you posted the undeniable fact of the RA lap record having used a 494.

Until that moment, anyone reading here would have been convinced that 494s were essentially useless — except as a "boat anchor" if recalling one post correctly.

[Jnovak]

Sorry for my lack of clarity, Clint.

There were several references to 494 motors no longer being competitive — until you posted the undeniable fact of the RA lap record having used a 494.

Until that moment, anyone reading here would have been convinced that 494s were essentially useless — except as a "boat anchor" if recalling one post correctly.

This is a perfect example of how variable the 2 strokes can be.
This comment is not intended to belittle his lap record at all. He did it and it was simply an amazing lap!

[Bill Schmidt]

1) Allow the 502 159-Degree Rotary Valve in all 494 Engines

2) Allow 40mm Carbs in the 494/493 Engines (was not in my first proposal)

3) Reduce Minimum Weight to 775lbs. in the 494/493 Powered Cars

I would be okay with #1 and #2 in your example above. But, I was under the impression that nobody could meet the low 775 weight?

[Bardahl77]

I would be okay with #1 and #2 in your example above. But, I was under the impression that nobody could meet the low 775 weight?

Danica Patrick could. Hell, probably meet 700 lbs limit for a 440

[Jnovak]

It is my opinion that we need 2 separate Classes.

1. Create a 2 stroke only class for the 500cc and the 600 cc motors equalize performances as needed with weight and engine rules.

2. Create a 4 stroke only class for the current 600cc motorcycle engines using a common spec 30mm restrictor for any approved stock 600cc MC production engine.

3, race the cars in 1 group for both classes with seperate trophies for each class.


Comments please.

[allof6]

There’s not enough cars on either side to split the class. That talk needs to stop. Although not perfect the current specs are real close. As stated before the lighter cars have a little advantage at certain tracks, but we are up for the challenge.

Preparation and driver ability is still the two biggest factors with these cars no matter what engine you have!

[Helghast7]

I know im still more of an outsider looking in but from what ive seen. For sure you don't have nearly enough cars to keep the classes going if you split. Splitting the classes would lead to a collapse of both IMO.

Honestly from what ive been seeing in these past 6 months or so, and im sure at least one person will take offense to this but... You will never make the old dogs happy no matter what you do, the MC engines are here and they bring some life back into the class. And old dogs do what old dogs do... complain... if you split the class they will still complain that the 593 is too fast for the 494 and STILL not come out to race causing the carb class to fail... the MC class might make it because there's a few guys that have been running it plus the chance for newer people (such as myself) to be interested in the build.

Frankly what I think will help everyone the most is marketing....if you look anywhere on the internet you guys don't exist.... I found you by accident.

On Instagram you can see f1000, f1600 even formula vee. But the ONLY 4 people ive ever seen are Clint McMahan on satellite racings page which compared to what else they post is almost zero coverage. Chrisp782005, Jason Martin and Greg Dean. And only 2 of them actually race in the runoffs...

Past that there's a handful of old old videos on YouTube. I found this class while looking up chassis designs for my own projects... by accident.

If you guys want to flourish you need to get the class out there. Because currently your the ghosts of the scca


Now I'm happy to be here and I love my car and I wish to continue to grow with the car and meet new friends but let's not kid ourselves. We all get older. You can't fill spots without new blood. And messing with the restrictions every year isn't going to change that fact.

Maybe im wrong. I hope I am but regardless im going to continue to post as much as I can to try to show everyone what their missing out on... because for me... before I found this class my chassis build for basically the same car you all run (besides suspension) would have cost me like 40k. And I paid far far less than that on my car even if it's a bit older.

[sathorp]

I'm going to go race and work on making my car faster!

[Bardahl77]

Maybe hire The Stig to set baseline runs to determine restrictors and weights of the various combos

[sathorp]

“Some say that if you hold him in the wrong way he doesn’t work properly, and that just very recently he developed an irrational hatred of Rubens Barrichello. All we know is he’s called the Stig.”

[Jnovak]

Maybe hire The Stig to set baseline runs to determine restrictors and weights of the various combos

We dont needvthe Stig the class has several great drivers.

My question ís.

Who is going to optimize all òf the many different variables on each of the 2 stroke engines? The key word is optimize.

I suggest that you take a look at the qualifying times at the runoffs from the 2014 runoffs . You might also want to watch the first 2 laps of the race, 2 stroke 593 vs Çlint with a 30 mm restricted 600cc Suzuki.