iRacing

[NPalacioM3]

So I finally gave in, bought a Logitech GT wheel and signed up for iRacing. What is the consensus on this platform? I find that the cars are extremely twitchy and the physics to be quite unrealistic. You need to barely press the brake or else you will lock up and go into an uncontrollable spin and forget the idea of putting power down because you will just get wheel spin and around you go. It is like driving around on ice! This is all mostly with the Star Mazda. It seemed quite a bit better with the MX5 but I got sick of driving that and even that was twitchy. And yes, I have actually raced an SM before.

Is rfactor more realistic? Better? I have done and redone the settings on my wheel and it seems to be in line with what is recommended online. I have tried downloading car setups (which look ridiculous compared to real life setups) and that does not work either. I see plenty of videos on youtube of people driving this car and seem to be fine but I can barely seem to get a full lap together, just completely undriveable.

Thanks in advance!

[Keith Carter]

While iRacing physics aren't the worst out there, I don't find them to be all that wonderful either. rFactor physics were ok as well, but they were still lacking unless you used certain mods with the "realfeel" add on mod or did a lot of tweaking on the controller settings. Both are still drive-able though to the point where you should be able to run multiple laps back to back. If you're locking up the brakes frequently, it may be that you have to drive it different from the real racecar since the brakes are actuated by a potentiometer and are not pressure sensing. I had modded the brake pedal on my G25 setup for this reason and I added a load cell so that the input is registering pressure instead of distance traveled. The pedals you have don't offer this and are made of plastic, but if someone was to have a G25 or G27 wheel, you could look into something like THIS or the Nixim mod which helps a little. If you wanted to drop more cash down you could get a separate set up pedals with all of this incorporated into it and get something like the Fanatec Clubsport Pedal v2 set. Before the rFactor2 beta came out, my favorite physics were from Live For Speed, but there weren't any realistic car models at the time (I think they've since added a BMW F1 car and maybe a Formula BMW). LFS had tire physics along with the chassis physics which added sense of real world handling. To date, rFactor2 IMO has the best sim racing physics to speak of and they're still in beta. Good things to come!!

[NPalacioM3]

Thanks, Keith. Yeah, I have seen those pedals like perfectpedal and the like, but I just cannot start down that path because then it will spiral out of control and next thing you know, I will have a $1-2K rig in my living room. I am just trying to get the car so that it is drivable, maybe I just need to spend some more time with it. I will also download rfactor trial and give that a shot.

[Keith Carter]

Yep, I would try rFactor and rFactor2. The mod content for rFactor is great. There are MANY tracks that have been created by the modding community. Some are so-so and some surpass the quality of the original tracks that came with rFactor. Poke around http://www.rfactorcentral.com/ to see what kind of content is available to give you an idea.

[Doug Fisher]

First let me say I've done alot of i-Racing in Happaugge NY.
I have found it to be of considerable utility, and fun.

Second, I have not driven in anger in 25 or thirty years. This about to change when I get out there in my Swift DB-1.
My experience with i-Racing has been positive....
I'll grant you, without actual movement mimicking G force it does leave one without a familiar dimension. However, If you keep at it , it will allow you to develop a rhythm and to become very familiar with tracks you have not driven and perhaps to re-acclimate with ones you know well. In short, your brain will come around....
By getting a rhythm I mean, braking points, apex's, bumps, track out and importantly concentration.
Additionally, I believe that if you try several new circuits on i-Racing, it has the potential to sharpen ones ability to learn any new track, whether that track is on i-Racing or not,
in the real world.
I am close to putting all this BS this in practice.... more on that at a later date.

To me, the F-1 car (Williams ) is the most realistic. This is pure speculation, but I hypothesize that because of the tons of data available from the F-1 cars they translate well to the simulator which then can deliver a more realistic experience.
The simulator rewards smoothness. In the real world cars, F-1 included, are horsed around a little more I would say .....but I digress. I have spent time driving the Radical and Star Mazda as well and got to the point were I could throw them around a bit,which was way fun.....but for ultimate times, smoothness reigns.


In my real life I may have done about 3 or 4 hundred laps around Limerock, years ago.
I've probably done 700 laps on the simulator in the past 4 months, and feel like I am very familiar with the track again after many years away from racing. Bruce MacInnes has championed the 'fast way 'round the uphill there. He explains and I paraphrase: by turning in slightly early (carrying more speed in) with an early apex, then past the apex as the car begins to compress on the uphill portion, turn some more to keep from hitting the guard rail on the left and ....magic !!!
Reported to provide up to 3/4 second benefit. I thought; perfect...I'll try it on i-Racing.
I keep crashing.
I think perhaps the software is unable to read the compression and grip which it should provide....or, the older I get the faster I was....
Of course there is no replacement for actual seat time.... but for me it has been very helpful and a whole lotta fun.

[GeoffRain]

Be sure to calibrate the program for your pedals. You should be able to adjust for a fair amount of travel on the brake pedal before lockup (if you're going fast enough to generate downforce). It isn't as good as the load-cell mod, but it makes the game more playable.

[swiftdrivr]

I too am unimpressed with iRacing. I bought Fanatec gear with a load cell, which does sound like its better than the non-load cell, and I can make a lap or two of Barber after weeks of trying, but it has so little to do with how I drive the Swift, I doubt it will help much. It is a good way to learn a new track, however.
I wonder why no one has built a generic Formula car, where you can adjust tire size, horsepower and gears, and go TRAIN. You could make one car with Aero and one without. The car physics couldn't be any worse than running VIR in a spec racer [the only H-pattern 4-speed iRacing seems to offer] All the shift points are wrong, and I have to brake way early. Being unable to gear the car to the track really hurts it's value for true simulation for training [as opposed to playing / sim racing other sim racers. Fine if that is what you are looking for, but it's not what I thought I was buying.] I don't race an F-1 car, so, aside from kicks, the F-1 sims do little for me. I thought GPL might be better, but downloaded the installer from GPL support site suggested on wiki, and it doesn't recognize my pedals and wheel [I can steer but not accelerate] I am hopeing rFactor 2 will be better / more usefull for training, but have not seen any indication they recognize the club racer who can't afford Mclaren's simulator as potential customers. i am hoping the modders come through on this end, as I have built a Sim-seat that mimics my position in the DB-1 [read; tight] and dropped a fair amount of cash into fanatec's gear. [Quality stuff, by the way.]

[flat tappet]

8 mos on with my Logitech G27 package on iracing, I am having good luck, low 50's at LRP in the radical.....and fast in the formula mazda. The Md 5 cup miata is fun and I'ge driven the real thing as well as the formula skippy.

RE: rfactor.....I've had the DVD version for 3days and have yet to get it to work! No help at all from the software company. Iracing has also been great at road Atlanta, mid Ohio and road America. I would say for SCCA racers it is the best so far for practice.

[RSR427]

You can find me railing against iRacing just about anywhere. Not because its that much worse than other sims, but b/c it claims to be so much better. I did the Skip Barber class at Lime Rock, then went home and bought the Skippy car and was absolutely disgusted. I almost spun the car once in class and was very fast. With the real car, you can't let off the gas while turning, it will step out. This is so exaggerated in iRacing its too unrealistic. You can drive it, but it doesn't feel right and I am rolling my eyes non-stop. There's an rFactor mod called Shaun's Racing School (SRS) which highlights that feature of the car, but to a lesser, more realistic degree. And with the grinding gear's plugin, the shifting and clutch feel is better than iRacing.

That being said, every sim has its pluses and minuses. iRacing is set it and forget it. rFactor needs some tweaks here and there to tailor it to you. But being in the sim community is better than not being in it. Great way to learn tracks (if not the bumps and cambers, as least the layout) and great way to keep sharp.

@Doug: My lead instructor at SBRS was Bruce M., and he showed us some neat tricks for Lime Rock. And yes, once you hit that compression on the uphill, you can crank that wheel and she BITES! Make sure you're straight on the hump though!!

[fezzic181]

When you ran the Skip on iRacing was it with the old tire model and the out of box setup? It's not nearly the snap oversteer wagon it used to be with the current tire model.

I do wonder who sets up their stock setups though. They seem to toss everyone in the weeds. The skippy forum has a great community of guys that have good understeer laden setups for new drivers or twitchy as all get out for the seasoned vet.

One of the big things I've seen with iRacing is getting your field of view right. For a single monitor user your going to fell cramped. To have the correct depth of field your field of view is going to be pretty much just over the nose of the car. No seeing what's beside you. If you have that depth of field incorrect no amount of setup fiddling is going to make the car feel right. Your eyes are going to be telling your brain a bunch of really wrong things about your speed and distance from things if you set it up to have a wide field on a single monitor.

[NPalacioM3]

Thanks for all the responses.

I have played with this thing for a week now and finally got the wheel/pedals setup to the point that I can actually drive the car and have won a few races, got my D license now and tried the Skippy car.

Here is my problem with the sim. The entire game seems to revolve around trail braking and while I know that is important in some cars, it seems exaggerated in this game (I am now calling this a game, not a sim). It is almost as if you need to drift through the corners, and this is the case in both the MX5 as well as the Skippy F2000 car. It just seems way too much and you have to be soooo sensitive with the pedal applications, especially the brake. If you press too hard or too quick, it will lock up and if you do not press hard and fast enough, won't brake and you miss the corner. I know these pedal upgrades should help with that but we will still leave the main issue at hand, the trail braking exaggeration. We all drive real race cars here and we all know this is not realistic, but it is fun and as a game, I can deal with it and be competitive.

With all that said, I do not believe the game adds much value when it comes to practicing a track. It may be good for learning a new track so you at least know what direction you are going in before you arrive, but I do not see any usefulness in trying to use it as a true sim to test. You touch a curb, you spin. You brake too hard, you lock up. You brake too little, you shoot the corner. Playing around with the chassis setup doesn't seem to make much difference at all, and I have made some BIG changes just to see what it does. The only thing that really sticks out to me is the excessive trail braking needed to point the car into a corner.

[Keith Carter]

You need to try rF2. The force feedback and physics are currently the best IMO. Nothing will come close to the real deal, but like you said, learning a track and trying different passing scenarios for a particular track would be what current day sims are suited best for.

[Grintch]

I agree with most of the comments on the iRacing physics. But you can get in a number of competivie races and the tracks are very good. With most sims the online racing is terrible except for the better leagues, and running in leagues will generally limit you to only running a race a week.

You can do your own DIY brakes mods for cheap with foam or rubber inserts and by replacing the stock springs with something stiffer.

[Tiago Santos]

I think as "real" race car drivers, expecting a sim, ANY sim to be a realistic training tool is.. Well, unrealistic.

I drove on iRacing for hours upon hours before I bought my vee and I really feel like it helped me tremendously in getting up to speed much faster in the real world. But expecting it to match your real world driving, braking points, shift points, etc will definitely disappoint you.

Firstly, speaking for myself, I'm a lot braver in the sim than in real life. I'm not babying my FV around the track, but I do leave some self preservation margins here and there. On iRacing, every lap is an 11/10ths qualifying lap. I have lots of spins and make silly mistakes on iRacing that I wouldn't do in real life, but that's not really their fault! There's a limit to my concentration and focus, and to how long I can drive on the absolute edge. In real life, I try to save that for when it really counts, in the game I push myself every single lap until I can barely make two corners in a row.

All physics and feedback problems aside, it's a lot harder to drive around in a sim than a real car - it's harder to focus and easier to get distracted, there's no seat of the pants feel, no tactile feedback (well.. not with my budget, anyway). So, personally, the biggest value in racing sims is exactly how hard they are. Most of my real life club races are 20-30 mins long and I have plenty to keep me busy and nothing to distract me. On iRacing, I've done hour long races with my phone ringing on the table, the dog begging me for food, the girlfriend coming home from work, while trying to see which way the track goes on a single 20" monitor. You're damn right it's easy to spin a car on iRacing! Try driving one around in really life, while keeping up with the pace of the leaders, drinking coffee and eating crackers!

Anyway - iRacing has helped my focus a LOT. I'm a very easily distracted person - I crashed on my second real life race cause I was waving at the flag station and missed my braking point. I credit iRacing for changing that for me and keeping me sharp and focused for a whole session.

PS: The only reason I use iRacing over the other sims is I don't need to mess around with settings or plugins or mods or whatever. Tried rFactor for a while, the stock setup was horrible. Found all the links for the realfeel mods, and the car mods, and the better tracks.. Meh, I'd rather pay the 7 bucks a month, click "GO" and be driving! iRacing worked perfectly with both my old Momo wheel and the newer Logitech, when I decided to build my load cell pedals, I plugged them in and they worked right away. The physics aren't perfect, but they're pretty damn good for what it is - a tool, not a replacement!

[racinray]

I think as "real" race car drivers, expecting a sim, ANY sim to be a realistic training tool is.. Well, unrealistic.

I drove on iRacing for hours upon hours before I bought my vee and I really feel like it helped me tremendously in getting up to speed much faster in the real world. But expecting it to match your real world driving, braking points, shift points, etc will definitely disappoint you.

Firstly, speaking for myself, I'm a lot braver in the sim than in real life. I'm not babying my FV around the track, but I do leave some self preservation margins here and there. On iRacing, every lap is an 11/10ths qualifying lap. I have lots of spins and make silly mistakes on iRacing that I wouldn't do in real life, but that's not really their fault! There's a limit to my concentration and focus, and to how long I can drive on the absolute edge. In real life, I try to save that for when it really counts, in the game I push myself every single lap until I can barely make two corners in a row.

All physics and feedback problems aside, it's a lot harder to drive around in a sim than a real car - it's harder to focus and easier to get distracted, there's no seat of the pants feel, no tactile feedback (well.. not with my budget, anyway). So, personally, the biggest value in racing sims is exactly how hard they are. Most of my real life club races are 20-30 mins long and I have plenty to keep me busy and nothing to distract me. On iRacing, I've done hour long races with my phone ringing on the table, the dog begging me for food, the girlfriend coming home from work, while trying to see which way the track goes on a single 20" monitor. You're damn right it's easy to spin a car on iRacing! Try driving one around in really life, while keeping up with the pace of the leaders, drinking coffee and eating crackers!

Anyway - iRacing has helped my focus a LOT. I'm a very easily distracted person - I crashed on my second real life race cause I was waving at the flag station and missed my braking point. I credit iRacing for changing that for me and keeping me sharp and focused for a whole session.

PS: The only reason I use iRacing over the other sims is I don't need to mess around with settings or plugins or mods or whatever. Tried rFactor for a while, the stock setup was horrible. Found all the links for the realfeel mods, and the car mods, and the better tracks.. Meh, I'd rather pay the 7 bucks a month, click "GO" and be driving! iRacing worked perfectly with both my old Momo wheel and the newer Logitech, when I decided to build my load cell pedals, I plugged them in and they worked right away. The physics aren't perfect, but they're pretty damn good for what it is - a tool, not a replacement!

Well said Tiago, couldn't agree more. I have also gone a step further with iRacing and have been able to use Motec software to perform data analysis. Believe it or not, I have gotten the cars to handle better using the data as well. At the very least, using the Motec software on iRacing data has at gotten me to be able to analyze the data more quickly when I'm at a real race track.

Ray