New Pedal Assembly Feedback

[Janko]

Below is a link to an early concept of a Formula car pedal assembly which will be available from www.phillymotorsports.com and www.baranidesign.com early next spring.

We are in prototype stage and would like race driver feedback as to which features are most important to them. (if possible, also tell us why)

The following is a link to a 3D Rendering of the pedal assembly.
http://www.baranidesign.com/f1000/Br...Elipse%201.htm

Please email comments or suggestions to info@baranidesign.com

Thank you to all that give us constructive feedback.
:-)

[Fatoldman7]

Maybe you could just post a picture of it in this post, none of my browser's seem to work with your link.....

[iamuwere]

Not just you, the link just appears to be broken.

[Janko]

Not just you, the link just appears to be broken.

I believe you have to use Internet Explorer and enable axtiveX content (a yellow bar at the top of the page should pop up to enable it) for the 3D rendering to work. It will then install a Solidworks eDrawings plugin.

Please let me know if thats not correct.
Best regards,
Jan

[RobLav]

Some quick comments:

- Everybody is different and can have varying preferences. Some adjustability would be good
- Perhaps allow for the throttle pad to be adjustable left to right. People heel and toe differently and have different sized feet
- Fore and aft adjustable is a requirement without the fulcrum going over center.
- Which side does the brake bias cable go? You need to allow for that to prevent any potential interference with it and any pedal mechanism. I find the best way is for the bias cable to go on the right side. This usually requires a curved throttle pedal.
- I also like a friction surface on only the brake pedal and the throttle and clutch pedals to slide.
- You need to figure out which master cylinders you will use. There are some more modern ones that are better than the old Girling units.
- Allow for adjustable throttle cable heights. The motorcycle engines require it a lot lower than street engines.
- Allow for an adjustable height throttle return spring

I went through all this while installing a Lola Indycar set of pedals in my new Citation...

[JohnPaul]

Here's a suggestion: I have big ass feet and because I left foot brake it makes for a tight situation. I'd love to swap the brake and clutch peddles. I don't use the clutch other than starting so I can get used to it easy enough. If you can set that up I'll take a set, and I bet a bunch of other people would also.

[edschubert]

Here is an example of how to do the gas pedal to leave room for the brake bias cable. The left foot brake option would be nice. If you "spaced" the master cylinder mounts the same distance as required for your barke pedal this shouldn't be a difficult thing to do.

[Fatoldman7]

Are there drivers out there in F1000, C-D Sports, that are running brake pedals far left, and the clutch in the middle?

[Ty_Handke_83]

Are there drivers out there in F1000, C-D Sports, that are running brake pedals far left, and the clutch in the middle?

I've thought about it in the past, and wondered why it wasn't used. On the other hand, why not just take the clutch pedal out of the equation completely. Use a hand operated clutch like the bike engine was designed for. (wheel mounted if paddle shift, or off the shifter / linkage if the old fashioned way) Would give more room for drivers with larger feet. (or narrower foot boxes)

[VehDyn]

I've thought about it in the past, and wondered why it wasn't used. On the other hand, why not just take the clutch pedal out of the equation completely. Use a hand operated clutch like the bike engine was designed for. (wheel mounted if paddle shift, or off the shifter / linkage if the old fashioned way) Would give more room for drivers with larger feet. (or narrower foot boxes)

Remember that McDonald's liveried Stohr F1000? That was built with a 2 pedal system and a hand clutch. That is the way the driver ordered it.

[Ty_Handke_83]

Remember that McDonald's liveried Stohr F1000? That was built with a 2 pedal system and a hand clutch. That is the way the driver ordered it.

Yeah, I remember it, I was pretty sure there were a couple cars out there built like that, but didn't want to say anything in case I was wrong. I thought more cars would have been built like that by now. But I guess tradition lives.

[lmpdesigner]

looks okay.

What is cost?

What features does it have that isn't out there on current packages?

[JohnPaul]

What features does it have that isn't out there on current packages?

exactly what I was thinking

[SCOTTY81]

Tilton makes a real nice 90 degree coupler for the brake bias cable. It will get the cable out from under your foot, We sell a bunch of them

http://www.taylor-race.com/part.cfm?id=4137&popup=1

[nulrich]

Those 90 degree couplers are the little yellow boxes in the drawing above.

Nathan

[SCOTTY81]

Ahhh...now I see em...I had to put the glasses on.
But you will only need one.

[edschubert]

At about $90.00 I would think designing a unit w/o this need would help keep the cost down. You also need to be careful about the clearance between the pedal. It get very close when you put on one of these and then set your bias.

[Brian]

If I was designing a pedal box it would be for those new master cylinders that pivot at the far end and have a solid connection to the pedal. I'd like to see a more innovative balance bar assembly too. I can't quite figure out why there is a need for a new old-style pedal box.

Brian

[Janko]

Thank you all for the good feedback so far. keep it coming.

Brian, have you looked at the cost of the new rear pivoting master cylinders? :-) Basically, We are aiming to get the new pedal assembly center of gravity and weight down as close to their levels as possible without sacrificing pedal feel and rigidity and at a price point that is within reach of the weekend racer.
Best regards,
Jan

If I was designing a pedal box it would be for those new master cylinders that pivot at the far end and have a solid connection to the pedal. I'd like to see a more innovative balance bar assembly too. I can't quite figure out why there is a need for a new old-style pedal box.

Brian

[rickb99]

Remember that McDonald's liveried Stohr F1000? That was built with a 2 pedal system and a hand clutch....

Yes, but he took it out for some reason:

http://www.apexspeed.com/forums/show...ight=mcdonalds

When purchased, the car had a push-pull paddle shifter and a paddle actuated clutch. I replaced that setup with the more typical foot operated hydraulic clutch and double paddle shifter...

Might want to find out why?

[Dick R.]

How do either the proposed system or the Tilton system handle significant driver leg length differences assuming the driver location behind the steering wheel has to be essentially the same for long leg and short leg drivers? Changing the pedal static location in the "arc" changes the motion ratio compared to the near 90 location shown (i.e. rising or falling rate depending where on the arc). Does the whole assembly need to be relocated on the floor and new holes drilled? Is the floor pan strong enough or is a frame tube needed also?

Here are pics of my 85 VD pedals with fabricated "pedal" extenders to deal with a short legged driver. The assembly attaches to frame side rails and the floor and is braced at one end against a front frame rail. I'm just curious since obviously the current Tilton, etc. stuff must work well.

FYI the relative fore/aft pedal locations work well for me, even in the extremely frantic gas/brake/clutch environment of an autox with a driver who always uses the clutch. I'd love to have footbox video of a busy run.


Dick

CM 85
85VD

[Rennie Clayton]

Dick,

The master cylinders are mounted to the pedal assembly - so adjustment for driver leg length is done by moving the entire pedal assembly fore + aft.

Regarding this particular assembly, other than to reduce in-house cost basis for a bespoke design, I don't see any reason to reinvent the wheel - especially when this particular wheel is redesigned by companies which specialize in braking technology on a semi-regular basis.


Cheers,
Rennie

[edschubert]

Here is an example of an adjustable pedal asssembly used in a Micro Sprint. A variation of this would work in a Formula Car.

[ffrgtm]

I've thought about it in the past, and wondered why it wasn't used. On the other hand, why not just take the clutch pedal out of the equation completely. Use a hand operated clutch like the bike engine was designed for. (wheel mounted if paddle shift, or off the shifter / linkage if the old fashioned way) Would give more room for drivers with larger feet. (or narrower foot boxes)

I'm seriously considering doing this. This is exactly how my schools fsae cars have been set up for the past few years. The hand clutch is integrated into the shifter so that when you push forward to downshift the clutch is engaged in the process. I've been looking for pedal box's that only have a dual cylinder brake pedal and a throttle pedal but no luck so far.

[Janko]

All,
Thank you for the good feedback. I think from all the emails we can see that there are enough people interested in something different that is more tailored toward the Motorcycle engine powered cars than is currently available.

We will attempt to address as many features as practical, while keeping the pedal assembly light, simple to install and its cost down.

Main points I am taking away from this discussion are:

1. Good pedal feel (fulcrum positions)
2. Easy fore/aft adjustability...not at the expense of mounting stiffness.
3. Left Right Pedal adjustability for foot width
4. Pedal Height adjustability for Large and Small feet
5. Smooth gas pedal, gripy clutch and brake
6. Ability to substitute a dead pedal instead of a cluch
7. If I missed any, please feel free to comment

Best regards,
Jan

[ffrgtm]

If subbing the dead pedal for the clutch hopefully it will be possible to move the brake and bias system all the way to the clutch pedal. No reason to crowd things

[Northwind]

How about a forked brake pedal that will allow for right or left foot braking and still give room for steering shafts. The master cylinder and bias bar would remain somewhat centered. It seems with the driving techniques being about split between right foot and left foot braking that something like this would be the wave of the future. My 2 cents!