WTB a FF 1600 in Calif.

[CM/FFdriver]

Hi,

I'm a noobe here, so please forgive me if any of my questions.

I currenly autocross a XR4ti in the DSP class.

I'm looking for an inexpensive FF to use (mostly) in the CM autocross class. The car should be "ready to race", cost less than $15K. I'm just going to autocrossing it.

I'm in the San Jose area of CA. I saw a nice cars here on Apex.
I'd really like to find one here on the west coast.

My questions:

1) Am I being realistic in the above requirements?

2) Can anyone point me to a knowledgeable shop in my area for parts & maintenance?
(I can do a lot of basic maintenance myself, but I don't know enough about
suspension setup for example.)

3) Based upon my research here, so far, I'm considering:
a Van Diemen RF95 to 98 or
a Reynard 87/88 to 95
What other cars would you recommend? I'm most concerned with parts availability,
ease of maintenance and potential re-sale at a later date.

Thanks,

Ben

[Ken Rozeboom]

Call Neil Porter 209 722 7373. Best FF guy in our area.

Consider a Crossle 25 - 45. Best of the "club" Fords and always a market when you are ready for something else.

[BWC54]

Neil has a real nice Crossle 25F in your price range.

http://www.apexspeed.com/forums/showthread.php?t=40183

[Dick R.]

Ben,

For autox you probably will be better off with cars no newer than 1989. Look at the CM results from Nats and at the past winners in the back of the Solo Rules.

http://www.scca.com/popup/raceresult...5171&file=1098

Guys who have tried newer cars have not had much luck in autox with them.

I'm prejudiced but 85 - 89 Van Diemens are a good choice also in addition to Reynards and Swifts. Parts are available for all of these major brands. Most FF parts are "generic" in any case and are available from numerous vendors of your choice. Plus companies like Prince Racecar Engineering have the jigs to remake/repair lots of suspension stuff that is brand/model specific. I just learned that all my suspension parts are "in production" and available from Primus in Fl or even directly from England (85 VD). I'm sure this is true for several other brands and models.

Obviously this car is a long way from California but the pictures show you what a typical mid 80's car looks like under the bodywork.

http://www.apexspeed.com/forums/showthread.php?t=41764

FYI one of the codrivers of the 73 Dulon that placed well at Nationals just purchased a different 85 VD. The one that was advertised on Apex located in FL. (now in Indy area I think).

Suspension is easy for autox. We will tell you the basics when you ask. Just consider buying one to be a really good excuse for buying Carroll Smith's series of books. The books always frustrated me when I lived in Santa Clara and Milpitas because most of the info didn't apply to Stock and Street Prepared cars . . .

Maintenance is minimal also if you are used to doing your own stuff. Remember, it will NEVER be a commute car so how fast can you wear it out in autox's?

You could learn a LOT about the cars by volunteering to help Bay Area racers or other autox'rs with open wheel or similar Mod cars. They always need help of some sort.

Dick

85 RF-85 Van Diemen

CM 85 (stopped going to Nationals after 2001 . . . life changed but plan on returning in 2012 when it changes again).

Hi,

I'm a noobe here, so please forgive me if any of my questions.

I currenly autocross a XR4ti in the DSP class.

I'm looking for an inexpensive FF to use (mostly) in the CM autocross class. The car should be "ready to race", cost less than $15K. I'm just going to autocrossing it.

I'm in the San Jose area of CA. I saw a nice cars here on Apex.
I'd really like to find one here on the west coast.

My questions:

1) Am I being realistic in the above requirements?

2) Can anyone point me to a knowledgeable shop in my area for parts & maintenance?
(I can do a lot of basic maintenance myself, but I don't know enough about
suspension setup for example.)

3) Based upon my research here, so far, I'm considering:
a Van Diemen RF95 to 98 or
a Reynard 87/88 to 95
What other cars would you recommend? I'm most concerned with parts availability,
ease of maintenance and potential re-sale at a later date.

Thanks,

Ben

[Kazis31]

Check out My Ray FF 1600 on apex.

M.

[Bill Steele]

Hi,

I'm a noobe here, so please forgive me if any of my questions.

I currenly autocross a XR4ti in the DSP class.

I'm looking for an inexpensive FF to use (mostly) in the CM autocross class. The car should be "ready to race", cost less than $15K. I'm just going to autocrossing it.

I'm in the San Jose area of CA. I saw a nice cars here on Apex.
I'd really like to find one here on the west coast.

My questions:

1) Am I being realistic in the above requirements?

2) Can anyone point me to a knowledgeable shop in my area for parts & maintenance?
(I can do a lot of basic maintenance myself, but I don't know enough about
suspension setup for example.)

3) Based upon my research here, so far, I'm considering:
a Van Diemen RF95 to 98 or
a Reynard 87/88 to 95
What other cars would you recommend? I'm most concerned with parts availability,
ease of maintenance and potential re-sale at a later date.

Thanks,

Ben

Hey Ben,

First, you are not in the "unrealiztic" range with that budget. In fact, I think you can find something that will be race ready and excellent. I think Ken's idea of a call to Neil Porter is a great one.

If I were you, given your budget, I would lean towward a Crossle as all parts are a 1 day UPS ground shipment away, they are in reasonable demand as Club Fords in the SF Region (basically the only car to win a Club Ford race in the SF Region in many years is a Crossle) so resale for very close to what you have invested is a resonable expectation.

I would steer clear of Reynard's, Van Deimen's, etc., just because they are not in much demand here in the Bay Area, hence resale will be challenging. Being able to buy and sell the car locally is a big advantage over long range transactions.

Neil has a pristine Crossle 25 that probably would keep you happy for a good long time,

[CM/FFdriver]

Check out My Ray FF 1600 on apex.

M.

I called you and you said to call back Monday.

Ben

[CM/FFdriver]

Call Neil Porter 209 722 7373. Best FF guy in our area.

Consider a Crossle 25 - 45. Best of the "club" Fords and always a market when you are ready for something else.

Thank you Ken for this contact info great guy to talk to, we're looking into getting the one for me.

Ben

[ahowe]

Ben,

Come to the dark side. We need more CM drivers on the west coast. I bought my car this summer and will be running it in earnest starting next season.

Andy Howe
Oregon Region
82 Reynard

[CM/FFdriver]

Ben,

Come to the dark side. We need more CM drivers on the west coast. I bought my car this summer and will be running it in earnest starting next season.

Andy Howe
Oregon Region
82 Reynard

Well my plan is buying one in the month or 2 this is a big deal, so I want to take my time and make sure I pick the right FF. Do you know of any FF I should be looking at? and are you going to be at the National Tour in San Deigo in 2011?

Ben

[Dick R.]

Well my plan is buying one in the month or 2 this is a big deal, so I want to take my time and make sure I pick the right FF. Do you know of any FF I should be looking at? and are you going to be at the National Tour in San Deigo in 2011?

Ben

Ben,

When you find a car, if it isn't already set up for autox there are numerous threads/posts on Apex Speed about autox setup in case you haven't seen them. Anything else you have questions about that are either FF in general or autox specific you probably already know have been or quickly will be answered here. If you cannot find an answer or opinion, just ask. Private mail any of us if you wish. Of course, the current/recent top guys are your best sources but we old hasbeens have some info also.

Dick CM 85
85 RF-85 VD
Former Bay Area Autocrosser (Mostly at Pleasanton, Cal Expo, etc. in the 70 and early 80's)

[ahowe]

Well my plan is buying one in the month or 2 this is a big deal, so I want to take my time and make sure I pick the right FF. Do you know of any FF I should be looking at? and are you going to be at the National Tour in San Deigo in 2011?

Ben

Ben,

I don't know of any cars in particular, but anything that makes mechanical grip can win. Reynards have good autocross reputations (84, 88 specifically) and the Swifts are definitely good (but expensive!). As we have seen this year, even a almost 40 year old Dulon can get it done.

Aside from the obvious stuff, the biggest thing you should look for is a car where you can get good local support in the beginning. I'm happier having the assistance of the previous owner as I learn the car than I would have been if the car had come perfectly setup (it didn't). Each car has its own personality - that hands on help is priceless. A great car is worthless when it doesn't run because of some trick you didn't know.

San Diego... I dunno yet. It is not out of the realm of possibility, but that is a long way from home.

Andy

[CM/FFdriver]

Ben,

I don't know of any cars in particular, but anything that makes mechanical grip can win. Reynards have good autocross reputations (84, 88 specifically) and the Swifts are definitely good (but expensive!). As we have seen this year, even a almost 40 year old Dulon can get it done.

Aside from the obvious stuff, the biggest thing you should look for is a car where you can get good local support in the beginning. I'm happier having the assistance of the previous owner as I learn the car than I would have been if the car had come perfectly setup (it didn't). Each car has its own personality - that hands on help is priceless. A great car is worthless when it doesn't run because of some trick you didn't know.

San Diego... I dunno yet. It is not out of the realm of possibility, but that is a long way from home.

Andy

Well it could be a 22 to 24 hour drive to San Diego and I don't like Washington's National tour, about the same drive time.

What do you all think about an Anson As-7 or a 90's Ray both are in Calif. so easy to get but if there hard to set up, any info would be great.

Ben

[ahowe]

For us, San Diego is every bit of 18 hours on the road. California's towing speed limits make it much longer than it needs to be. I can get most of the way to Lincoln in the same time. But, if you have a car and Robert attends, that'd be three cars. Seems like a reason to go. (I miss Atwater.)

Packwood treats us great - but it is a 3 hour drive for me. So far, it has been a great litmus test for Lincoln. If your car works in Packwood, it'll work in Lincoln. I haven't had to tweak the setup at all at Nationals the last two years (E Stock) - not even the turn of a shock knob.

Andy

[Dick R.]

Guys,

Be sure to chase any Mod class drivers who are Nationally quick in your area. Also chase PAX. As needed factor "conditions" into your PAX "feel good or feel bad" but also pay close attention to the freshness of your tires versus the other Mod or prepared guys you compare to. Also, try to run fast paced events similar to Pro's if possible. The hardest thing about CM or any other Mod class is getting "to" the car's limits both "grip" and "response". But when you do . . .

Ben, once you get somewhat comfortable with the car I would recommend going to as many SoCal/San Diego events as you can since there are some RATHER GOOD Mod and Prepared cars down there. . . I haven't looked to see how NorCal is doing these days in those classes but I see Barry Spencer is bringing out his EMod Europa with a new engine and obviously CP is STRONG.

Dick
CM 85 - Who needs to follow my own advice but in the East.
85VD

[CM/FFdriver]

Guys,

Be sure to chase any Mod class drivers who are Nationally quick in your area. Also chase PAX. As needed factor "conditions" into your PAX "feel good or feel bad" but also pay close attention to the freshness of your tires versus the other Mod or prepared guys you compare to. Also, try to run fast paced events similar to Pro's if possible. The hardest thing about CM or any other Mod class is getting "to" the car's limits both "grip" and "response". But when you do . . .

Ben, once you get somewhat comfortable with the car I would recommend going to as many SoCal/San Diego events as you can since there are some RATHER GOOD Mod and Prepared cars down there. . . I haven't looked to see how NorCal is doing these days in those classes but I see Barry Spencer is bringing out his EMod Europa with a new engine and obviously CP is STRONG.

Dick
CM 85 - Who needs to follow my own advice but in the East.
85VD

Hey Dick,

The good thing is we have all concrete events here in NorCal and get 12 runs a day. We also have Barry Goldine that runs a BM so it will be fun to run up on him in the pax.

I have 4 FF I'm looking at Anson Sa-7, Mondiale 85 and a Dulon Mp21, Van diiemen but in different parts of the USA, the Anson is in my back yard but looks a little incomplete (needs work to run in autocross) I'm up in the air with all this, just a little unsure.

Ben

[Rick Kirchner]

I might be wrong here, but for auto-x don't you want a fairly narrow track and short wheelbase? Narrow track to minimize turning about the cones and short wheelbase for low polar moment and instability.

Newer cars are the opposite of this. What about a Lola 440?

[CM/FFdriver]

I might be wrong here, but for auto-x don't you want a fairly narrow track and short wheelbase? Narrow track to minimize turning about the cones and short wheelbase for low polar moment and instability.

Newer cars are the opposite of this. What about a Lola 440?

Do you have any Pic's? I would like to here some more info.

Ben

[Dick R.]

Rick,

"Full size" FF's such as DB-1's, Citations, and mid-80's Reynards and VD's have consistently done best at Nationals. SF Region's courses are the same size or bigger than Nationals courses unless things have changed since the 80's when I left.

Dick
CM85
85VD

[Dick R.]

Ben,

Barry Goldine's car is actually an AM I think (it was in 2009 at Nats). . . but not quite at the very top of the class anymore. I don't recall how it compares with National BM's given the state of their development in the last few years.

Dick

[CM/FFdriver]

Ben,

Barry Goldine's car is actually an AM I think (it was in 2009 at Nats). . . but not quite at the very top of the class anymore. I don't recall how it compares with National BM's given the state of their development in the last few years.

Dick

Well Dick,

I think it's going to hard to judge how well your doing at local events. How does CM do in pax against the F125 Karts, thing is are F125 driver has slowed down the last year or 2. My take on what I need to do is getting my driving up to what the car can do in the turns and over all feel, and then take it to the National's to see how I do against you all.

Ben

[Dick R.]

Ben,

Sounds like a plan. PAX for the karts is quicker than CM (i.e. theirs is tougher). I suspect, however, that it is harder to drive/ride a kart. In your area with the high level of competition you basically need to be the fastest car at every event as a start unless there are really quick Mod cars/drivers there. Then you need to be high in PAX. As you get going in the car, monitor the top CM guy's results at Tours to see how they PAX and what their actual times are relative to other classes.

FYI I'm so rusty that when I finally show up again at Nats I'll be trying to catch you even if you are not yet at the top.

Dick

Well Dick,

I think it's going to hard to judge how well your doing at local events. How does CM do in pax against the F125 Karts, thing is are F125 driver has slowed down the last year or 2. My take on what I need to do is getting my driving up to what the car can do in the turns and over all feel, and then take it to the National's to see how I do against you all.

Ben

[TommyT]

Hi Ben, guess I´m pretty late reading this. I´ve got a `79 Crossle 35 I´m not using, but I haven´t put it on the market yet. Ran it with HSR-W and VARA earlier this year, but now have a 2L DB-3 I´m running instead. It would fit your budget, so if you´re still looking, let me know and I can give you the details. I´m just N of S Diego.

Tom