Great race!
Great coverage by Cambern's (ex FF) staff.
2012 Runoffs FF race
Great race!
Great coverage by Cambern's (ex FF) staff.
What a horrible call not to safety car! I can't believe it!
I like hot pickups, especially on a 4 mile track.
With the added bonus of not quite knowing what's over the blind crest lap after lap!
I'd say Hondas and Kents are pretty darn close. Kent a little stronger on the uphill.
Congrats to Tim and Paul. A lot of work over the last year to get that checker.
Congrads Tim!
Great race! Sounded like Tim missed a shift coming into the last corner...
Chris Pruett
Swift DB1
Congrats to Russ on a great podium finish!!!
That had to feel pretty good!
Congrats to old friend Russ and his fine 3rd place run!
Damn, damn I miss FF.
Great race. Great live coverage! Congrats!!
Cool coverage
It actually sounded like they knew about FF racing.
Very cool stuff.
Sean
I believe Dorsey came up thru FF.
A lot of "reworking" went on with that Piper at Don Sievenpiper's shop in Gainesville Georgia last winter. I couldn't see if Don was on pit wall.
Tim's massive workout program payed dividends in weight loss and strength. They could move that weight lower in the car.
Cool that Steve Knapp was first to congratulate Tim, while Tim was still in car.
I posted this in the thread I started, Doug maybe you can delete that one:
Great race, congrats to Tim, Lew and Russ and to the whole field, you all did the FF class proud.
Big fat Black Flag for SCCA and the stewards.Not going full course yellow with Wes' car sitting in the middle of the track between 1 and 2 in a blind spot was ridiculous and then putting a safety truck in the middle of the track was even worse. They are lucky someone wasnt hurt by their stupidity.
My heart was in my throat until everyone got through but you could see some of the drivers had no idea he was there and took some violent steering action to avoid a collision. The corner worker wasnt exactly emphatic with his yellow flag waving either.
Other than that, thanks for a great show!
Dorsey ran HP in a Fiat 850 and went straight a a Brabham FB car. Maybe a BT18? Who knows, it was like 1974. I was 9.
Don't think he ever raced FF although he may have tested one or three back in the day.
I'm with you Tom, crazy officiating. Frankly, its been all over the map.
A oh s--t moment for sure
Unsetttling!
I was watching the race at my in-laws' place and found it very hard to explain to them why on earth there wasn't a pace car..!!
Might even have made the last few laps a bit more 'interesting'
Awesome race though, very fun to watch other than the silly flag stuff!
I got to watch about 65% of the race from T3, where my throttle linkage broke, and have to say that Tim, Lewis, Russ, and Ethan were phenomenal. Really, really excellent racing. Congratulations to Tim and Paul and to all the leaders, you guys are so fast.
Originally Posted by bryancohnracing
Dorsey ran HP in a Fiat 850 and went straight a a Brabham FB car. Maybe a BT18? Who knows, it was like 1974. I was 9.
Don't think he ever raced FF although he may have tested one or three back in the day.
I'm with you Tom, crazy officiating. Frankly, its been all over the map.
Dorsey started in a HP FIAT 850 then Formula Vee (Gomots?) - then the ex Nick Craw Brabham BT35 FB - as I recall.
Mark Silverberg - SE Michigan
Lynx B FV & Royale RP3 FF
240Z Vintage Production Car
PCR, Kosmic CRG & Birel karts
I would like to add good job Reid Hazelton as well.
Where can I find full results
Andrew, try here http://www.scca.com/events/results.cfm?eid=4516
Thanks allen. SCCA website can be a battle to find what you want sometimes........
Is Russ still using Williams engines?Congrats to Russ on a great podium finish!!!
That had to feel pretty good!
Tires
Any comments from drivers who ran the Pro Series and then used small rears here? How many switched?
- Frank C
Sounds like I missed another great race! Congrats to Tim, Paul and Don! If you have never seen this car you need to. The craftsmanship, prep and engineering is second to none! All their efforts put Tim where they planned at the beginning of the season! Great drive Tim! Great to see Russ drive his car to a 3rd place podium finish. Great guy that engineers and prep his own car! Congrats to all the drivers that made the effort and took their car to the Big Dance!
I have some hard work to acknowledge...
Ditto most of the above. Most of us in the field were resigned to racing for the last spot on the podium. Tim and Lew really seperated themselves all week. Can't wait to watch their race.
Froggie, I'm with you on the hot pull concept, but as good a job as the RA folks did clearing up the 2 incidents, these 2 both stretched the limits of safety. Once we had all gone thru the incidents I understood not pulling out the pace car, but that first time thru......man I don't know. The truck in T1 was blind and over the hill and I just did have enough time to avoid, but the truck at the exit of the kink (for Livingston) was equally blind and once you commit to going flat there you don't lift. I lifted because I figured that with truck in T1 and a waving yellow in the kink (both trucks appeared on the same lap) that we would surely go pace car. If I had not lifted in the kink, that truck would probably have come into play as you could not see it on entry. There were waving yellow in both corners, but no corner workers waving us away from the truck.
As for my week, big thanks are in order to both Jim Little of Drivers Services and Angelo Zarra of Anze Suspension. In Q1 on Tues morning I got 4 tires on the gator strips exiting T1 and hooked the l/r wheel in the dirt on exit and tank slapped my way over to the concrete on drivers right, ripping the right side corners off,cracking some bodywork and tweaking the frame hard enough to pop the bellypan off all the way back to the fuel cell. A further inspectioni of the frame revealed some cracks in the paint, but not the frame (a good reason not to powdercoat a frame). We had bend some frame rails to get the pan to line up enough to re-rivet (100 of them). Honestly, I thought I'd be heading home, but Jim and Angelo were both sure that the car would be safe, and it was. I trust both of their opinions, which are backed up with many years of experience. We just did make Q3 on Wed where we discovered there was a broken rear shock (internally, a shim stack collapsed). That fixed I had a much better car for the race and had a lot of fun and clean racing with Townes, Acock and for a while with Bartz and Wheatcroft early before their dnf's.
Thanks again to Jim and Ang, that was as good an at track recovery as I've had.
Here it is....
at least as I saw it.
First off, a big hats off to Tim and Co.c and Lew and Polstar. They were dead nuts fast out of the box. Tim drove the crap out of that car, that (to me) looked like it had a left front shock go soft on the second lap or so. Looked like the front skimmed over bumps, much like mine. I'll let him speak on that, but that is kinda what it looked like to me. One time going into the kink as we were nose to tail I saw, what looked like, Lew's car turn into that 6-wheeled Tyrell thing as it grew two extra wheels which was actually Tim's car sideways.
Lew, he was just too smooth. Reminded me of Tony Coello in his VD.
BUT...(and not to take anything away from anyone) if Scotty would not have had his mechanical I would bet a hefty sum that he would was ran away with it. He told me going into T3 his gearbox jumped out of gear. By the time Lew/Tim/and myself got tho T5 Scotty was a little dot in my mirror. On the next lap into T8 Scott had already caught back up, and was around me. He chased us down by himself in less than a lap and a half. I really think he would have taken it.
When Wes crashed in T1, and was dead in the water, it was a very dangerous situation. You could not see him until you crested the hill. Not like T1 is that fast or anything....At the same time Livingston was off int he Kink. Why there was not full course caution I will never know, but a really bad call if you ask me. The safety workers were in a very scary place in T1 with 60% track blockage. Kudos to the workers who dealt with that, from the corner workers to the safety workers. They handled that effed up situation very well.
As for me....the week started as bad as I think it could have. The first session the car was a bag of crap. Almost as bad as it ever had been. Same set up from last year, and basically the same I have had all year. I knew after that first session I was going to have my work cut out for me. That is the thing with this car, it seems to have such a small window of where it actually works that if conditions change it all goes to crap. It was very cold, so that was the main thing. Typically, I am slow the first session while I find out what the car needs and can get it close for the second session and dead on for the race. But, being that far off I knew I was screwed. It got better by the 3rd Q session, but was still not happy. For the race, it was close but definitely not what it was last year. Big thanks to LMI, Bruce, and Nic for letting me monopolize their platform every day for about 5 hours a crack. I managed to get 3rd fastest in the last qual session so I felt better about that. It still was not great.
For the race I got a great start as Lew and Scotty timed it perfectly. It was easy for me to just tag along. One cold tires I was right with them, but once things heated up I could tell I was having to work a lot harder for it than Tim and Lew. I also knew I could not drive it as it was, at that speed for 13 laps, 8 maybe, but it would not last. There was no way I could stay in front of them on the front straight, and Tim definitely had the most straight line speed. The aero on that thing is better than just about anything - Vestel-like. Anyway, on lap 5 or whatever the radio bracket broke and got stuck between my elbow and the frame, so I did a lazy spin in T5. Working the car as I was, I remember my elbow hitting it a few times, so that must have broke it.
Congrats to Russ, from the look of his and Ethan's car, they had a close, close race.
Not the way I thought it would go, but with how bad it started it was about as good as I could have hoped for.
I forgot something...so I will post later when I remember it.
Just got home from the 2day drive back to Austin, I have to say that the reason I have always been in love with FF racing was restated this last week. Everyone was helping everyone and it really seemed real.
Congrats to all the racers and the crews (who we really know does all the work anyway)
Scotty Segers
Re. Scott Rubenzer. Inside wheel nut worked loose and lost almost a lap in pits. Got back on just in front of Kautz and Cooper and stayed clear running solo laps as fast as the lead duo. Before the stop most of us in turn 5 were putting money on Scott running them down for a second championship.
Sorry I missed Don. If you are logged in, I still remember the day you stepped into our flooded shop in Minn. to pick up RF86 which became the prototype Piper (sort of).
Congrats to all for a fine and from what I saw clean close race.
Congrats to all for a great race! The duel at the front was a real chess match
2012 FF
What is it with Scott's car loosening wheel nuts. Same issue as last year !
Great race but so dangerous
The cream certainly came to the top. Congrats to both. But, I am very disappointed with the management of the race. It appears that there was an ongoing discussion about whether to throw the double yellow, meanwhile the safety of every driver out there was seriously compromised. The starter had the double in his hand, but was apparently told to not throw it. Even the PA realized how dangerous the situation was. I can only say that having my son out there was difficultt and we all were very lucky something serious didn't happen. These are the best there are in this class, and fortunately they were able to take care of themselves even when the race administrators were not. I expect better from this club!
No double yellow
I want to address some of what has been said about not going full yellow. I cannot speak much to the situation in 1 but I certainly can about the Livingston deal in the kink, because I was there. We were damned if we did and damned if we didn't. First, it is initially race control's call to go full course or not. The only time Safety will call for full course is when drivers don't respect the incident scene. I will cite some of the complete idiots in the FA/FB group after Chaz Duncan became high centered in 8.
On to the situation in the Kink. Scanlan...when is the last time you read what a waving yellow actually means?? WAVED -- Great Danger, Slow Down, be prepared to stop -- NO PASSING FROM THE FLAG until past emergency area. There were a great many of you that came in to the Kink as if the flag condition was green. When we got Livingston's car loaded and went on our way, we came out of 13 and were nearly ran in to from behind. I won't name the driver, but I am sure he had quite a load to deal with after the race. I will put a very small portion of responsibility on the corner workers for not advising a particular side of the track to go to, but everyone had been through the scene at least once and knew we were out there.
Tom Valet...I don't know where exactly the car was but our responsibility as the safety guys on track is the safety of the driver who is stranded....in this case Wes. We position our vehicle such that the disabled vehicle cannot be hit and that the workers on the ground have some protection. As has been stated in another post....there was a waving yellow. I wont debate the position of that truck as I don't wasn't there. I will say though....the crew on that truck is plenty experienced. Again...waving yellow was there, respect the flag condition.
Full course yellows are not popular by drivers. Plenty of bitching about them, especially on a track that large. We work quickly on a scene when we are there and do what we can to take care of things under a local so you all can have as much green time and space as is possible. Damned if we do, damned if we don't.
Before you all go thinking I am picking on the FF guys, I am not. There was plenty of driver dumbassery to go around. One of my fellow crew and I came within about 10 feet of being wiped out by a GT3 car while hooking up a disabled car that was 5 feet or better OFF the track. In my experience, drivers aren't so good at respecting the flag conditions.
Currently Without Car
Congrat's
I just wanted to publicly congratulate Tim and crew on a great season. I must admit it is a beautiful car from all angles, trust me I got a very close view of all sides. While I would have obviously liked a different result, its hard to imagine having anymore fun for 13 laps.
The flags were definitely being waived. It would have been much nicer to be getting a signal as to which side of the track was blocked, as both incidents were in blind spots. It was nice being the second guy through at that point. They did get the track cleared much quicker then I thought they would have, based on what I could see driving by, so the workers on both incidents need to be recognized for their quick work, no matter how you feel about full or local yellow, the people sent out to clean it up, did it very well and very quick.
Congrats again to Tim,
Lewis Cooper III
I also want to Thank Jim Griffith and the entire Polestar team; Pam, Steve, Constantine, Steve and Tonis, for another great year. You can't get much closer to a "super sweep" then that.
Brad, thanks for your comments, it is always helpful to get the perspective of those directly involved.
Please dont misunderstand my comments, I was not criticizing the safety truck workers for where they parked their truck...it was parked exactly where it should have been, as you point out, where it needs to be to protect the stranded car and driver. If I implied the truck should not have been there I didnt mean to.
My criticism was directed at race control. When you see the replay video of the race you will see that Wes' car was parked sideways across the track, blocking more than half the track, on the racing line after the crest of the hill down to Turn 3. When the safety truck parked itself on the track also after the crest of the hill, a full course yellow was essential. One of these cars hitting Wes' Ford would have been bad enough. One of these cars hitting a pick-up truck would have been fatal. Several years ago during an enduro at Lime Rock a Radical hit a Toyota street car that had crashed and blocked the track in a blind spot. The driver was killed instantly. We all hate to see FCYs but they are necessary in many cases including this race.
Take care.
Tom
PS, I went back and re-read my post, what I said was poorly worded and did seem directed at the safety workers on the truck. That wasnt my intention and I apologize if I offended anyone.
Has SCCA or anybody considered using racecievers? So when there is incidents race control can notify every driver on track? www.raceciever.com
Last edited by thunderracing91; 09.25.12 at 1:28 PM.
Choice
IMO. Sliding into a 6000 lb pick up or a 1100lb Ff I would choose thenff providing the driver was out of the car. If he/she was not within a lap or so a double yellow should have been placed. I checked up for the waived yellowed..... Fighting for 8 th was not important at that point.
I watched the FA, DB, fm qaulifying after the ff race. The fire and e people do no have a clue on how to "tire roll" a car to a safe zone. I saw this at the apex of t 1 and were telling them how to move a car. They have fancy uniforms and shiny equipment but some of the crew seemed uninformed with formula cars. I do not challenge their commitment but by the time they broke out the t bar for the roll hoop and connected it I and one other person could have moved the FA with a rear tire roll.
I checked up at the yellow and are damned glad I did.
Congrats to The top three!
Pudium
WoW! What a Race.. Awsome drive for the Podium..Great show from the whole field ...Very exciting to watch at the track and on SpeedcastTV.com..
Tom,
I took no offense to your comments at all. I'll go watch the video. My frustration lies in driver's not respecting the flag condition and the absolutely stupid direction corner workers are given where it's not a waving yellow unless there is at least one wheel on the track. 11 went yellow because we had one wheel of the safety truck on the racing surface and asked them to waive the flag when we drove by. That flag should be waving if there is something, or someone in an impact zone, regardless of how far off the racing surface the incident is. That car got there...another could also. Regardless of waving or not, it's still a yellow and you cannot pass so why not slow down?
Mike Kolthoff...I wasn't at the situation in 8 with the FA. I did hear over the radio he was high centered and also heard drivers were splitting the scene going both left and right. From first hand experience, that seems to be a group that doesn't have much respect for an incident scene. Were you the one that went and said something to the safety worker? As a driver of an open wheel car, I'd certainly rather take my chances against another car than the bumper of one of those trucks, but...those trucks arent going away, they will be parked to protect the disabled car, so I choose to slow down. If Duncan was indeed high centered at the Apex of 8, all those drivers had PLENTY of time to see what was going on. Lap ruined, slow down.
Currently Without Car
FF Runoffs
Tim- Congrats on a great drive.You were truly the guy who refused to loose.Lew congrats on a great effort.Your car is on rails everywhere.Great job.This race truly personified what a FF race should be all about.
The incident between 1 and 2 with Wes was scary.The operating Steward should have called for a double yellow.With 2/3 track blockage in an area where speeds are in excess of 100mph come on.I am glad there were no other colateral incidents.
Ok...I just watched. I will agree, that incident at T1 was scary. I did notice in the video that both the station at Alpha and 2 were waving yellow. I am VERY disappointed at the lack of flag waving effort on the part of the corner worker at 2. The flagger at Alpha was more animated than the one at 2. After seeing that, I am also surprised that they didnt go full course for that. Normally I would say that the Operating Steward must rely on the corner workers to paint a picture of an incident and sometimes those pictures look like a kindergarten finger painting....however...there is camera coverage all around RA so they should have seen that. That said, I am sure the response would be 2 waving yellows...respect the flag condition.
I was happy to see that the Road America Safety Team that responded to that incident moved the car and their truck. I was also happy to hear Greg and Dorsey being complimentary of how quickly the Central Division Safety Team cleaned up the incident in the kink.
I still stand by my initially feeling that drivers need to be more respectful of flag conditions, but will agree we should have gone FCY with where Wes' car was. If not FCY, at least a flagger who was more animated and someone "pulling" the cars to driver's right.
Currently Without Car
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