Buying a car in Canada to the US

[David Irwin]

I am purchasing a project car from Canada and need to go get it in a couple of days.

Has anyone else done this, who could provide me with some advise on bringing it back across the border into the US?

Anything I need to know about entering Canada?

Does it help that this car was bought in the US 27 years ago and now is coming back?

Please email me direct to discuss this. Thanks in Advance. David Irwin at irwin_eng(at)hotmail(dot)com or 303-653-5550

[nomis]

Really good question and I think this would be good information for a lot of Apexers
can we have some pubic responses

Thanks

[djones]

Brought over a DSR/P2 this summer. No problem whatsoever and did it by the book. First thing g you need to do is email John Lacroix at the EPA. Lacroix.john@epa.gov. He is the person who handles race car importation. You will need an EPA exemption letter. Mr Lacroix will email you everything you need to complete it . There are a couple others forms to complete. I will email you everything I have. You do need a passport or passport card to enter Canada. If you take more that 10k cash you will have to declare it.I
Easy peasy and cost nothing!

[Jamesbe]

I've sold 2 cars to us residents. Both transported over the border themselves.

Biggest issue is the EPA form. For a radical the new owner simply got a letter from a us dealer stating it was an off road use vehicle only.

For the sedan I believe he had to prove it couldn't go on the road, once they saw it away the border the agent just let him go. So your mileage may vary in that case.

Both buyers were very worried because of all the red tape and scary words online, but in the end the agents realize it's a race car.

I'll see if I can dig up the specific emails I had about this, was about 3 years ago.

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[Jamesbe]

Brought over a DSR/P2 this summer. No problem whatsoever and did it by the book. First thing g you need to do is email John Lacroix at the EPA. Lacroix.john@epa.gov. He is the person who handles race car importation. You will need an EPA exemption letter. Mr Lacroix will email you everything you need to complete it . There are a couple others forms to complete. I will email you everything I have. You do need a passport or passport card to enter Canada. If you take more that 10k cash you will have to declare it.I
Easy peasy and cost nothing!

Love the costs nothing.

Coming the other way we pay 20% on top of the value,

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[problemchild]

if the project has no engine, then the EPA exemption is not necessary.

[David Irwin]

Wow, thanks for all the helpful information. David

[Dee]

If you have paperwork stating it was a US car you are home free.
Dee

[Stan Clayton]

If the manufacturer (e.g., Stohr) is still in business we can provide you with a certificate of origin showing the car was manufactured in the US, thereby avoiding import duties. Get the EPA letter, too, of course.

[David Irwin]

Stohr called me today. The best thing is for the seller to write a letter stating such, plus the SCCA US logbooks should help.

Thanks.

[BorkRacing]

Race cars cross the border all the time. I have never needed EPA papers to re-enter the US nor been asked to pay duty going into Canada. Same goes for boats that cross the border every day. Why would your car be an exception? You are not importing it, you are returning it to the US.

[djones]

I now have a PDF file of the papers i used to get my car from Canada. Glad to share with anyone going through the process.

[john f]

Race cars cross the border all the time. I have never needed EPA papers to re-enter the US nor been asked to pay duty going into Canada. Same goes for boats that cross the border every day. Why would your car be an exception? You are not importing it, you are returning it to the US.

Maybe because it's the right thing to do? Just my $0.02.

john f

[BorkRacing]

Maybe because it's the right thing to do? Just my $0.02.

john f

I've crossed with race cars and boats for decades with no request ever for paperwork. If it is yours, its personal property. If you are bringing it in as a business to sell that is a different story. What is the purpose of bringing the car from Canada to the US?

Do you register your clothes when you go over? No, they are yours. So is your boat or race car.

[problemchild]

Robby is correct that you can choose not to declare what you purchased in Canada and are bringing back to the states. You can also undervalue it while declaring it. If you declare your purchase, and it has an engine included, you will require EPA exemption or compliance. No exceptions. USA origin does not matter.

In terms of duties and taxes, the USA origin, does matter, but at this point, any taxes and duties are trivial, and they likely won't bother.

Should you not declare, or undervalue, US customs is very good at using google and will find ads on Apexspeed on the first page of their search. They will also probably find this thread and the names of people posting on it.

[Stan Clayton]

I've crossed with race cars and boats for decades with no request ever for paperwork. If it is yours, its personal property. If you are bringing it in as a business to sell that is a different story. What is the purpose of bringing the car from Canada to the US?

Do you register your clothes when you go over? No, they are yours. So is your boat or race car.

The OP states that he is purchasing the (British made) car in Canada to import to the US, so your comments about crossing the border with stuff you already own don't really apply. Sure, you can lie if asked about it by Customs, but you're taking the chance they will confiscate the car, and you are subject to additional penalties if caught. DON'T DO IT!

If the car has an SCCA or other US sanctioning body logbook and a history of racing here, that is proof the car was imported at one time and any duties paid. Match the logbook to the data plate and roll bar stampings to the satisfaction of the inspector and they will likely wave you right through, but DO NOT LIE to the inspector. They are US Federal Law Enforcement officers, and the penalties for lying are way out of proportion to any slight delay or duties you may owe. Get the EPA form and any other documentation to help clear your way across the border. There's plenty of good suggestions here...use them.

I too have crossed the Canadian (and Mexican) borders with race cars without hassle because I had my paperwork in order, and I was friendly and polite.

[alangbaker]

Race cars cross the border all the time. I have never needed EPA papers to re-enter the US nor been asked to pay duty going into Canada. Same goes for boats that cross the border every day. Why would your car be an exception? You are not importing it, you are returning it to the US.

Robby, the process is not consistent from crossing to crossing.

[BorkRacing]

Do I think it is a good idea to have all your paperwork before crossing, sure. Do I think you are waiving a huge red flag by showing them without being asked for them, hell yes.

[BorkRacing]

Robby is correct that you can choose not to declare what you purchased in Canada and are bringing back to the states. You can also undervalue it while declaring it. If you declare your purchase, and it has an engine included, you will require EPA exemption or compliance. No exceptions. USA origin does not matter.

In terms of duties and taxes, the USA origin, does matter, but at this point, any taxes and duties are trivial, and they likely won't bother.

Should you not declare, or undervalue, US customs is very good at using google and will find ads on Apexspeed on the first page of their search. They will also probably find this thread and the names of people posting on it.

I never said do not declare what you purchased. I said it is not normally an issue to bring your personal property from Canada to the US unless you make it one.

[BorkRacing]

Can someone explain how you get an EPA certificate for a formula car or sports racer that was never registered or intended for street use? My US based race cars certainly don't have that certificate.

[alangbaker]

Brought over a DSR/P2 this summer. No problem whatsoever and did it by the book. First thing g you need to do is email John Lacroix at the EPA. Lacroix.john@epa.gov. He is the person who handles race car importation. You will need an EPA exemption letter. Mr Lacroix will email you everything you need to complete it . There are a couple others forms to complete. I will email you everything I have. You do need a passport or passport card to enter Canada. If you take more that 10k cash you will have to declare it.I
Easy peasy and cost nothing!

Can someone explain how you get an EPA certificate for a formula car or sports racer that was never registered or intended for street use? My US based race cars certainly don't have that certificate.

It was already mentioned in this thread. I've quoted it above.

To make it even more bizarre, you need the forms (at least in theory) even if you're EXPORTING the car.

[problemchild]

Can someone explain how you get an EPA certificate for a formula car or sports racer that was never registered or intended for street use? My US based race cars certainly don't have that certificate.

It is not a certificate. It is an exemption letter. It is not for the car. It is for the engine. See post #3.

[GreginCanada]

I brought a U.S. car back home to Canada last week. Definately a bit of an ordeal even using a broker for both the export from the U.S. { manditory} and the import to Canada. {in theroy at least optional} . The U.S. Customs vehicle export agent was VERY picky, absulutely every document and detail specified on documentation scrutinised. A mistake was discovered in how the broker filled out some information. I had to store the car for 3 days on the U.S. side while the error was corrected and the export application was re- processed. A nice enough guy but talk about a fine tooth comb. It's done now but at least a few extra gray hairs and a good bump up on the anxiety index until a definite "approved" status was registered.

Greg

[petawawarace]

I brought a U.S. car back home to Canada last week. Definately a bit of an ordeal even using a broker for both the export from the U.S. { manditory} and the import to Canada. {in theroy at least optional} . The U.S. Customs vehicle export agent was VERY picky, absulutely every document and detail specified on documentation scrutinised. A mistake was discovered in how the broker filled out some information. I had to store the car for 3 days on the U.S. side while the error was corrected and the export application was re- processed. A nice enough guy but talk about a fine tooth comb. It's done now but at least a few extra gray hairs and a good bump up on the anxiety index until a definite "approved" status was registered.

Greg

This post is about racecars. I’m assuming your talking about a street car?
All you need to bring a racecar into Canada from the US is a letter saying it’s for closed course use only (the letter can be from pretty much any sanctioning body/tech official/flagman etc) abc you need to pay the tax. Bringing it into Canada, all they really care about is getting their tax dollars.

[GreginCanada]

No, definately a race car , 1972 Elden that was advertised here on Apex. Canada is no problem . As you say all Canada is interested in is collecting the tax.
It is the export process and gaining "approved for export" status with U.S. customs that is the potential minefield.The racing use only letter made it possible to export from the U.S. without a title however still a very formal and exacting documentation process.

Greg

[Jamesbe]

Oh when I imported my car I didn't stop in the US. Because I didn't need the transport Canada stamp to register for the road. Just came to Canada and paid my taxes.

They asked if I stopped in the US i said no. They said I perhaps should have but they can't make me.

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[GreginCanada]

All well and good......if you don't get caught. Read the pertinant U.S. Customs vehicle export regulations. I can't afford to take that sort of risk. The transaction has to be as specified by the authorities or I can't be part of it. I travel to the U.S. too frequently to take a serious chance with running afoul of U.S. customs. Their law has real teeth and they are very happy to enforce it.

Greg

[Lotus7]

All well and good......if you don't get caught. Read the pertinant U.S. Customs vehicle export regulations. I can't afford to take that sort of risk. The transaction has to be as specified by the authorities or I can't be part of it. I travel to the U.S. too frequently to take a serious chance with running afoul of U.S. customs. Their law has real teeth and they are very happy to enforce it.

Greg

A sensible outlook. People are generally unaware that (long before Trump) the US Border Security can declare ANY non-US-citizen persona-non-grata for any reason they deem fit, and ban them from the country for 5 years with no appeal .... google old stories about Canadian CEO's of companies with offices in both countries who found out the hard way. The wrong words at the border can change your life.

[Jayeff]

A sensible outlook. People are generally unaware that (long before Trump) the US Border Security can declare ANY non-US-citizen persona-non-grata for any reason they deem fit, and ban them from the country for 5 years with no appeal .... google old stories about Canadian CEO's of companies with offices in both countries who found out the hard way. The wrong words at the border can change your life.

TOTALLY TRUE. You cannot be too careful and you can't afford to be cavalier about it.

[Jamesbe]

At the time of my export (perhaps it has changed) it was very clear the reason for US export documentation was two fold.

1) verify the vehicle was not stolen via the title.
2) provide documentation and stamp of approval for registration of the vehicle in Canada.

Without 2 you can never register for the road.

Without 1 there is a risk that the vehicle is stolen and after import you could be liable to return the vehicle for forfeit.

Since neither case was a possibility for me as I purchased from a reputable dealer with paperwork thr US customs told me there was nothing they could do for me.

Canadian customs confirmed that stopping on return would protect me.

As always your situation may be different.

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[GreginCanada]

If you bought your race car a few years ago there was no need to go through the export process . The regulations changed 2 or 3 years ago and now any motorized, self propelled machine is considered a "motor vehicle" and subject to compliance with the regulations.
The U.S. customs website lays it all out . I am not really sure what they were trying to accomplish with such all encompassing law. But it is definitely an extra hurdle for anyone buying a race car in the U.S. and taking it to another country. The extra cost really is not that great , brokerage fees $200.00 or so. { as long as your broker fills out all the forms correctly} But it is a further bureaucratic hurdle that must be cleared.

[John Nesbitt]

See: https://help.cbp.gov/app/answers/det...-motorcycle%29


And: http://www.affiliatedcb.com/document...iance_Ends.pdf


On edit: As others have pointed out, it is a huge, expensive mistake to try to slip something past any customs authority. They have vast discretionary powers and, if you get caught cheating, can mess you up no end.

I have dealt with customs in Canada, the US, France, and Switzerland, entering, leaving, and transiting with goods and/or cars. The universal rule is to have your paperwork ducks in a row. A customs broker will make sure that you have the correct forms, filled out correctly.

[Jamesbe]

If you bought your race car a few years ago there was no need to go through the export process . The regulations changed 2 or 3 years ago and now any motorized, self propelled machine is considered a "motor vehicle" and subject to compliance with the regulations.
The U.S. customs website lays it all out . I am not really sure what they were trying to accomplish with such all encompassing law. But it is definitely an extra hurdle for anyone buying a race car in the U.S. and taking it to another country. The extra cost really is not that great , brokerage fees $200.00 or so. { as long as your broker fills out all the forms correctly} But it is a further bureaucratic hurdle that must be cleared.

That makes more sense it was 4 years ago.

Agreed the new rules sound ridiculous.

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[BorkRacing]

After reading and participating in this thread I did some research.

Yes, if you buy a car in Canada and bring it into the US you need EPA paperwork from John LeCroix.
If the RACE car originated in the US, call CPB at the bridge you will cross and tell them. They will determine if it is an import. CPB in Washington told me it should not, but check anyways.

If you take your race car into Canada and return with it unchanged Customs does not consider it an import and no EPA paperwork is required. You can fill out form 4455 and present it at US Customs, they may or may not require it.

People like Greg Rice, who are considered a professional race business may require other paperwork as they are not transporting their personal race car. However, it is still not considered an import if it left the US to race in Canada and is returning unmodified.

Race motors are treated the same, if they have been modified they may incur duty on the cost of modification.

I can provide the letter from EPA that says if customs does not consider it an import then no EPA paperwork is required.

Hope this help clear questions, Robby

[billtebbutt]

Brought over a DSR/P2 this summer. No problem whatsoever and did it by the book. First thing g you need to do is email John Lacroix at the EPA. Lacroix.john@epa.gov. He is the person who handles race car importation. You will need an EPA exemption letter. Mr Lacroix will email you everything you need to complete it . There are a couple others forms to complete. I will email you everything I have. You do need a passport or passport card to enter Canada. If you take more that 10k cash you will have to declare it.I
Easy peasy and cost nothing!

This should be made a sticky on this forum, if for no other reason than the contact deets!!!!

[Phil Creighton]

We bring in 10 -20 cars a year so here goes
John Lacroix at the EPA has now retired. His place has been taken by David Hurlin who is working remotely on engine and car imports. Its important to note that they are requiring pictures (front/side/rear/interior etc), where the vehicle is to be raced and a copy of the owners competition licence - the latter is a new requirement.
Mr Hurlin weas pretty good at responding to us and will ask for more detail if required rather than bounce the application. We brought in a 333SP recently with no aggro but a 458GT3 took some supplementary questions as it could be a street car. Takes pretty close to 14 days to get the approval so dont expect it quicker. If you use a commercial shipper via air or sea this has to be done before shipping - be warned the penalty is steep if they want to be..............
E Mails are imports@epa.gov or Hurlin.David@epa.gov. Imports address works fine.

Here is an example of what they want- modify to suit the vehicle and series.


Date
U.S. Environmental Protection Agency
Compliance & Innovative Strategies Division
Light Duty Vehicle Group
2000 Traverwood Drive
Ann Arbor, MI 48105
Attn: David Hurlin
Subject: Race car Exemption

Dear Mr. Hurlin
We respectfully request an EPA racing Exemption be granted for the following vehicle:
Make:
Model:
Year:
Chassis or VIN

Owner:

Current location of the vehicle:


Racing features included:
Carbon chassis with open cockpit
Full welded-in Roll Cage - no interior trim.
Internal fire extinguisher system
2 inch. Ground clearance
Racing exhaust system
Racing tyres
Racing seat and harness
Carbon fiber removeable body panels
Hewland race transmission.
Only runs on race fuel

Street Features not present:
No interior padding or molding
No radio
No Heater

See attached color photographs, front, back, sides and interior
Value:
This vehicle was manufactured to the requirements of the following sanctioning bodies:
SCCA, American Le Mans Series, United States Road Racing Championship, Grand-Am, World Sportscar Championship, FIA, ACO

Historic racing series currently: HSR, SVRA, Ferrari Corse Clienti

HSR Schedule 2021 (possible further changes due to COVID-19)
March 31st – April 2 Sebring International Raceway
April 21-25 Road Atlanta
May 20-23 Barber Motorsports Park
July 9-11 Watkins Glen
August 12-15 Laguna seca
September 17-19 Road America
September 23-26 Road Atlanta
October 27-31 Daytona International Speedway
December 1-5 Sebring International Raceway

SVRA Schedule 2021 (possible further changes due to COVID-19)
February 18-2 Sebring International Raceway
February 26-28 Homestead Miami Speedway
March 18-21 Charlotte Motor Speedway
March 25-28 Road Atlanta
April 23-25 Sonoma Raceway
April 28-May 2 Laguna Seca
May 13-16 Road America
May 28-31 Lime Rock Park
June 24-27 Mid-Ohio Sportscar Course
July 23-25 Portland International Raceway
September 9- 12 Watkins Glen International
September 23-26 Virginia International Raceway
October 7-10 Utah Motorsports Campus
October 22-24 Savannah Speed Festival
November 4-7 Circuit of The Americas


Respectfully submitted,

[Phil Creighton]

Remember this is for an Exemption from the EPA regulations as a non street vehicle and this procedure has been there for at least 5 years as far as I can tell.. BTW most customs brokers charge 599-750 to do this as its a nice little earner!
Phil

[t walgamuth]

I have crossed borders many times through the years. I have always been careful about what I say to the guards. They do have power to confiscate things that are not correct.

Once we went on an extended family outing in Canada near Peterboro. One of my brothers in law has a sort of wierd sense of humor. At the border he tried to make a joke with the guard and got his car and bags thoroughly searched for his effort.

When we cross we might be on vacation but they have a serious job to do and do not appreciate anything that is not helpful.

Once we were crossing with our travel trailer. The guard asked to see inside the trailer. I opened the door and there were five or six bikes stuffed in the trailer. The guard sort of took a step back and said to go ahead.

[billtebbutt]

Even though it was a long time ago, a university roommate of mine was a dual citizen who worked at the Niagara border in the summers - a great gig for him. The stories he told me were, well, pretty damned funny/hopeless.

It was basically a running bet that a US motorhome crossing into Canada would have a pistol within reach of the driver. Often, the guards would just ask about firearms, get the answer that there were none, and then they'd reach in through the window and reach above the sunvisor. Scooter would say that they'd find a pistol there surprisingly often. That was a LOT of years ago - their view on enforcing this policy has got a lot more harsh.

When you drive across the border, do you ever notice the dish microphones located strategically as you approach the border gates? I've never thought they were there for decoration. I would bet a surprising number of travelers say dumb things that could be interpreted incorrectly as they wait in the queue to cross because they are assuming they can't be heard. My own policy is radio off, no chatter in the car, passports open and ready, windows open on the guard's side of the car, sunglasses off. Its worked so far.

In the 90s when i was racing in NE Division, i would often be crossing on a Friday night on the way to (name your NE track). pickup truck, 28 foot enclosed trailer. About a third of the time, after all the question, the guard would want to see inside the trailer (and the cars would be lined up for a half mile behind me). Eventually, I realized that some of these folks just wanted to see what the race car looked like and spend 30 secs talking about it! They were bored to tears, and a race car was one way to break the monotony.

for the 50th, we crossed at Sarnia. I was driving my rig, we had 2 cars and 2 crew, The guard threw me off with a question I had never been asked before: "Has anyone in your truck ever been convicted of a crime?". One of the crew I didn't know all that well, but seemed like a great guy. The only answer I could think of was "Not to my knowledge, Sir". Good enough!

cheers,
BT

[Michael Katnich]

Was wondering if anyone has done this very recently, looking at a FV near Toronto that comes with an open trailer crossing near Buffalo. Has anything changed or more important what is now required? I am thinking the trailer would be the thing that would add more issues with crossing, I do not need or really want it, I have an enclosed trailer I can carry it in.
Thanks for any help anyone can provide.
Michael