Newbie question

[AirSix]

Hi, folks!

I'm hoping to graduate from tin tops to real race cars, but been away from SCCA for ten years, and I assume the economics have changed. So the question:

Once the car is bought, is there a significant cost difference between running CF and FF at the regional level? I know you can spend anything you want on FF nationally, but does the relatively easy availability of newer FF parts offset the fact that CF parts aren't all made of unobtanium?

Thanks much!

jj

[John Merriman]

There are usually a variety of points of view on questions like this so here's just one! If, in general, you are referring to suspension parts, it would be true that parts for a fairly new car might be readily available - off the shelf. But for older cars, there are sources for parts off the shelf too or they can be made. The Crossle entrants seem to be able to get parts most readily - from Porter Racing and others. For Lolas, Zinks and various other chassis, there are fabricators here and there who have jigs for parts - Pat Prince would be one example. In other cases, parts can be duplicated by a good number of reputable race prep or fab shops. Ric Racing in New Hampshire and Snapdragon Motorsports in Massachusetts can make up any part you might need - fabicated parts - by jigging off a good part of the same type. Obviously cast uprights are an issue and in some cases if you whack the wall big time and lose an upright, you're out of commission! Another factor to consider is that the uncompetitive FF cars are, in some cases, cheaper than a highly competitive Club Ford. By the way, if you've been away from SCCA for a while, you might be interested to know that the long standing tradition of trashing half a dozen Formula Fords per Regional race is a thing of the past! Maybe you won't be needing a ton of replacement suspension parts after all!

[RoadHazard]

Air-

I'm only slightly ahead of you, so don't take this as gospel, but...

In our region one of the differences between FF and CF is tires. The FF guys can (and do) spend anything they want on tires, while the CF guys are limited to a cheaper and more durable spec tire. To be really competitive in FF you'll spend a lot on tires, and the longer you race the more that adds up.

[AirSix]

These are excellent posts -- thanks so much! You may have helped keep me from getting my head turned by an older Swift instead of a CF to be named later. I know I won't be running at the front right away, but at least in CF I might be able to someday!

Cheers,

jj

[HazelNut]

as i recall there were a few swift db1 at the runnofs and doign pretty decently. SO its not liek an older swift is an uncompetative car.

[Bob Spreen]

To my mind, the biggest budget line item difference between FF and CF is tires. To be at the pointy end of the grid in FF can require super sticky Goodyears at about $600/set, and for that you get a 45 minute tire. To use but one set per weekend you have to really restrict your track time, or your tires go away during your Sunday race. Contrast that with a $400 set of American Racers (required in Northwest CF) which will go several weekends, running as much as you want.

I'd rather drive more. Other than that, costs are very similar, unless you hit things.

Bob Spreen

[AJWALKER]

Couple of thoughts.
What is being run in your race area. Being the only car is your class means you will always win but you have no one to improve against.
Tires compounds are a choice, you can run harder compounds (longer lasting)until they effect your lap times.
As you're climbing the steep learning curve of car set-up and driving better lap times, invest money in test days and not tires for every race weekend.
Club Fords are very sturdy cars, they don't fold up under light contact.
AJW

[bob scheib]

For What It's Worth - I ran my '95 V-D FC ['04 SCCA Region 96 points leader]for two double race weekends [3 reg'l, 1 nat'l], and one practice session of a 4th reg'l race weekend - on 1 1/2 sets of Hoosier tires. Two more "sticker" tires added into the mix would have easily seen us through a total of 6 races [car was sold during practice at race #5!] Using a "tire management" system [thanks ICP Seminar!!] will get more miles out of a race tire than most people realise; good record keeping of the "rotation" / use cycles for each tire is definitely worth the time and effort. Proper alignment and setup is of course a must.

[Smallville]

All the above is good advice. I run a Crossle 32F after having had a formula ford and another CF. What brought me to SF or CF (most regions) was the fact that the older cars are less expensive. The less expensive class is attractive to a larger number of drivers, and often (because of expense) experienced and fast drivers. Also, the performance differences from car to car seem less extreme. This is largely due to the spec tires. I'm lucky to run in the SF region where there are quite a few SF/CFs. The racing is very competitive. BTW you really can't go wrong, in my opinion, with a Crossle 30/32/35/45 series of car in these classes. They are a great, forgiving, and fast race car, with readily available parts and support.

Mike Wells

[triumph_tech]

For my money,(and there isn't a lot of that in my wallet) the club Ford class is the way to go racing. There are quite a few affordable cars around that will give you a good start in open wheel racing. The difference in running club class is the tire savings. This year( my rookie season) I ran an 8 race season with the FRCCA here in the Northeast. I started with new Hoosier R60 spec tires in the spring and got the entire season out of those tires, that included 2 oval races that were extremely tough on the left side tires. I run a Zink Z10-C and I have found the parts support for my 30 year old car to be quite good. Larry Oliver stocks most of the suspension parts along with most other supplies you will need. As long as you stick with a more popular car like a Zink, Van Diemen , Crossle you can't go wrong. You can always use the club ford class as a stepping stone if you decide to go further, but it the right place to start. If you would like you can contact me offline and discuss racing in the N.E. with the FRCCA ( this club has a great rookie racing program) along with the trials and tribulations of a rookie formula car racer.

[Robert J. Alder]

Don't discount vintage. Damn good FF racing in many vintage clubs. Again, a spec tire (Dunlop). Cars a bit more expensive, but good FF racing all over the country at some nice events. More competition and bigger grids than SCCA CF and you don't have to dodge the FF guys. Probably fewer incidents and good competition throughout the grids (often 20-25 cars).

[J.D. King]

I think you'll find that older race cars are made relatively simple, and most parts can be had by a local fabricator, or making your own. The only parts I know of to be "scarce" are some of the casted uprights for some models.

I own a Zink Z10 and have had good luck with it, mechanically speaking. Most parts are readily available at a reasonable cost, look to ICP or Larry Oliver. But because the car is simple, I call it the tractor, most of the parts can be made at home or locally.

As far as racing goes, once you get bitten by the open wheel bug you'll never look at tin tops the same. Find a class with some numbers, be it SCCA, SVRA, VSCCA, whatever. You'll be surrounding yourself with mostly gentlemanly racers that truely care about good, clean, competitive driving.