1984 Van Dieman - Why So Bad???

[billtebbutt]

The poster looking for a 1981-1983 VD got me to thinking. The aborted (after 1 year) RF 84 VD was replaced by a DB1 clone (I had an RF 85, it was a great car!). What, exactly, made the RF84 such a poor car that people loved to hate it (and many still do), and why did the factory kill off the design after a single season?

I always wondered if the car got its due. By definition, anything that came off the drawing board post the intro of the DB1 took a shellacking.

I always loved the look of it, and remain dangerously intrigued every time I see one. Did anyone have later success with these?

cheers,
BT

[LeeR]

Hi Bill,

Like you, I always liked the looks of these cars. My first real race car was an RF84. Owned three over the years (two of which actually ran...). But they aren't really very good compared to some of their contemporaries. There was one year in Quebec Regionals where we ran Hankooks, and the fronts seemed to really transform the turn-in compared to the BFGs or Firestones. Never tried one on Dunlops or slicks. YMMV...

Cheers,
Lee

[jrh3]

The poster looking for a 1981-1983 VD got me to thinking. The aborted (after 1 year) RF 84 VD was replaced by a DB1 clone (I had an RF 85, it was a great car!). What, exactly, made the RF84 such a poor car that people loved to hate it (and many still do), and why did the factory kill off the design after a single season?

I always wondered if the car got its due. By definition, anything that came off the drawing board post the intro of the DB1 took a shellacking.

I always loved the look of it, and remain dangerously intrigued every time I see one. Did anyone have later success with these?

cheers,
BT

Nice looking cars. I just don't want my feet to be first to the scene of the accident.

[CM/FFdriver]

Well I have an 84 VD and to me the car/FF is great, yes I only autocross the car but to me aero means nothing to me but base on the dimensions I love it.

I had a lot of help from Pat Prince when I bought the car and other years has made the car have no push and great 4 wheel drift. I'm like you Billtebbutt why had the car only one year except for your feet in front of the front tires, so the development of the car was done after they made it so maybe the car didn't have the time as the 85VD and I also don't think it lend itself to a big person, I'm 5' 10" 185 lbs and fit in the car absolutely perfect someone 6'2" may fit but if your over 200 lbs would not be fun FMPOV.

I run the car on bias ply slick tires but you could run on radial tires like the Hoosiers,

Hankooks,

Dunlops are taller so you would have to run the GB rear up right's. The 84 VD is really easy to work on, I would love to find someone on the west coast road racing an 84 VD to help out and learn more about this car.

Ben

PS. 2015 3rd, 2016 3rd, 2017 3rd fastest lap both days, 2018 1st, 2019 2nd fastest lap on day one

[Joefisherff]

I had one for a number of years and with the correct setup on it I had good success. As mentioned above, having the feet forward of the front wheel centerline was outlawed so the design stopped in 84, not to mention they had to respond to the success of the Swift. There are a number of them that are very successful autocrossing including my old car. The key is to eliminate the tendency to push and be willing to toss it around to be fast.

[John Green]

I had an RF84 FC. I made a few changes to it and ended up with a really good car, I always had a cooling issue with it so I converted it to side radiators from a 84/86 Reynard. The side pods fit perfect. Moved the center of gravity lower and forward. Cooling way better.
I renamed it a VanNard.

[John Green]

Correction, the radiators and side pods were maybe 1983 Reynard....not sure....memory failing

[David Clubine]

I always thought they were a good looking car with wings. It seemed to make it look more finished to me than the 1600 version.

[Rick Kirchner]

I have one that I hope to start restoration on next year. It needs a lot of frame work, both rear uprights, perhaps lower a-arms in the back, and the bodywork is a mess. I've been thinking about cooling and the entire packaging issue with the fuel tank and oil tank. There's really not enough room under the seat for much. Thought about enlarging the radiator and tilting it as much as possible as well as a fan and pulling air from under the car since the side ducts and required sealing seem sort of overly complicated.

There was a guy in texas about six years ago that wanted to pull a mold off of my bodywork but unfortunately when packaged enough to avoid damage it would no longer fir well in a truck and the shipping cost was pretty prohibitive.

Don't believe pennon had anything but noses.

There was a gorgeous pink/purple one sold here a few years back. Don't know where it went but would be nice to run it down. Best looking one I've ever seen, and they re-designed the nose and it looked really nice.

Despite a lot of searches I have been unable to find it.

[ekielts]

I raced one of these in CenDiv in 1984. The RF84 really wasn't that bad... just not as good as the Swift DB-1 and Reynard of 1984. Its main problem was the execution of the central radiator design. It generated a lot of drag so the car's straight line speed was a bit off the competition. They also tended to understeer; an attribute that I was never successful in fully tuning out. That said, they did win several SCCA Nationals that year when 30+ car fields were the norm and if my memory is correct, four of us made it the Runoffs in them.

Jrh3 is correct. The driving position is very far forward... think knees even with the front wheels centerline. Although this looks dangerous, the risk of injury can be minimized by not hitting anything.

[problemchild]

I always thought they were neat-looking, more so as F2000.

The British cars went through a tough time in the mid-80s. Designer arrogance prevented them from copying a Swift, but they were heavily influenced by it. Generally, they missed what the Swifts did best, and had poor execution of the concepts. Also worth noting, that the British officials were not a pushover for the rule stretching as SCCA had been. When they took the DB3 over in 85, the officials had them modify it for 2 weeks to make it compliant, at which point, it was no faster than the Reynards. Also, the British tracks were not as well suited to the Swift strengths as the big American tracks.

I would imagine now, that there would be little difference between different cars that are 35 years old. Condition and level of preparation are more important than the technical merit of the car itself.

[racerjon]

I raced one of these in CenDiv in 1984. The RF84 really wasn't that bad... just not as good as the Swift DB-1 and Reynard of 1984. Its main problem was the execution of the central radiator design. It generated a lot of drag so the car's straight line speed was a bit off the competition. They also tended to understeer; an attribute that I was never successful in fully tuning out. That said, they did win several SCCA Nationals that year when 30+ car fields were the norm and if my memory is correct, four of us made it the Runoffs in them.

Jrh3 is correct. The driving position is very far forward... think knees even with the front wheels centerline. Although this looks dangerous, the risk of injury can be minimized by not hitting anything.

Every time I see one of these for sale I think back to when you were running one Eric....always at, or near the front of the field!

[kea]

Eric (ekielts) had a 82 Van Dieman before, which was a nice, basic car. But he had to work really hard to get the 84 to be competitive (which he was).
We did find a cooling issue on his friends (R. Kelly) identical car, where the air was trying to come in both the inlet and exit, with little flow through the radiator.

[CM/FFdriver]

We did find a cooling issue on his friends (R. Kelly) identical car, where the air was trying to come in both the inlet and exit, with little flow through the radiator.

So About the 84 VD unless you've own one you wouldn't put the time into the develop of the 84 VD and make great handling car, I've had my 84 for 5 years now and was able to win to 2018 solo National's and now that I've put in another 2 years develop in my book the 84 is a great handling car.

Part of the problem back in 1984 is they went out and made the 85 VD which aero wise is a much better car, I'm sure you can find some other great FF cars that had some problems and because of the Swift they was shown the door.

About the an over heating problems, I ran the air scoop with out enclosing the weber carb, the air going into the engine area had the air pressurized the area behind the radiator and after the first lap I was over heating. Lesson learned.

Ben

[ekielts]

Eric (ekielts) had a 82 Van Dieman before, which was a nice, basic car. But he had to work really hard to get the 84 to be competitive (which he was).
We did find a cooling issue on his friends (R. Kelly) identical car, where the air was trying to come in both the inlet and exit, with little flow through the radiator.

With regards to the cooling issue, we found the same thing Keith. The car came with a funky looking gearbox cover as part of the bodywork. We quickly discovered that removing this helped evacuate air from the backside of the central radiator and dropped water temps by 5°C. That piece was both aerodynamically ineffective and ugly, but the car's handling was pretty docile at the limit so you could really hustle it through the corners.