Road America - Kink, increased run off area?

[fletch]

So because of all that is going on this summer, we pulled our entry for the July Road America WIC vintage race and did not compete this year.
Last year, the track added a section of "safer barrier", along the outside wall, exiting the kink.
While watching the IMSA highlights on YouTube from this past weekend's event, it seemed like the outside wall at the kink has now been moved outward by an additional 15 - 20 feet?
Does anybody know if this is the case?

Fletch
March 79V

[E1pix]

I don’t personally, but do know there’s a wetlands immediately beyond the rail— and that’s prevented an extension I recall first being discussed in the ‘70s.

Meaning, I’d be very surprised if anything’s been done without serious construction, and/or recent policy change.

The Kink is equal parts nostalgia in being original, a risk-reward design challenge, and sometimes a place of downright terror. Ms. Legge is so very lucky to be alive, for one.

[tstrong]

When we were there in June it had not changed. Todd

[reidhazelton]

I don’t personally, but do know there’s a wetlands immediately beyond the rail— and that’s prevented an extension I recall first being discussed in the ‘70s.

Meaning, I’d be very surprised if anything’s been done without serious construction, and/or recent policy change.

The Kink is equal parts nostalgia in being original, a risk-reward design challenge, and sometimes a place of downright terror. Ms. Legge is so very lucky to be alive, for one.

Yup. It can't change unless you can convince the railroad to move. I'd like to see them add a NASCAR safer barrier on both sides all the way down to Canada Corner.

[Roland V. Johnson]

I do believe the Safer Barrier came from IndyCar.

[pacratt]

Just curious if they also added Safer-Barrier to the inside-exit of the Kink ? (and a ways down-track)
Seems 50% of "offs" there end up sliding across track & smacking the concrete wall on track-right...as I did in 2015.

Glenn

[reidhazelton]

Just curious if they also added Safer-Barrier to the inside-exit of the Kink ? (and a ways down-track)
Seems 50% of "offs" there end up sliding across track & smacking the concrete wall on track-right...as I did in 2015.

Glenn

I think it's only on the outside. I could be wrong, I've never gotten close enough to take a look.

[bassracer]

Inside exit of 5 could use a run of tires further down the wall, too

[R. Pare]

I do believe the Safer Barrier came from IndyCar.

It was first installed at IMS, and the research was funded by Indycar.

Didn't take long for NASCAR to follow suit.

[Hardingfv32]

I would question the value of a Safer Barrier for most of the participant that use this forum. They are design to absorb energy levels that are much greater than our SCCA cars can generally generate. For most of us it is going seem no different than hitting a K barrier.

Am I wrong?

Brian

[R. Pare]

I would question the value of a Safer Barrier for most of the participant that use this forum. They are design to absorb energy levels that are much greater than our SCCA cars can generally generate. For most of us it is going seem no different than hitting a K barrier.

Am I wrong?

Brian

Yes.

If it gives AT ALL, then it has absorbed and dissipated energy that would have otherwise gone into the chassis.

Obviously, it won't make as big a difference to an 1100 pound car going 100 mph as it will to a 2500 pound car going 200 mph.

[jtaphorn]

I was at RA two weekends ago for the Weathertech Redman vintage event. I did not see any updates to the corner from the previous year.

First practice session Thursday morning and perhaps the first Green flag lap, Barry Blackmore passed me going uphill into turn 6 driving a Formula 5000. Seconds later I am yellow flagged at the Kink and there is Barry's chassis missing a front wheel alongside the inside wall after the turn. His bodywork is strewn across the track. As of last Sunday, I heard he was in a Milwaukee hospital and in a coma, on a ventilator with shattered legs. His condition was serious. I pray he is recovering and have heard no updates.

Folks told me RA makes an effort to contain info on accident occurrences as it is bad for business. Not spectator business, rather racer. The damaged Shadow was covered up and placed in a trailer out of view directly.

[fletch]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Ql16lfGmn9A
so check out the video at 13:22.
the announcers say it’s the kink, but it could be somewhere else, as it’s kind of hard with the rain.
that is what got me thinking it has new, additional runoff?
it just looks bigger than I remember from inside the car and I have been racing here since 1977.
Fletch
March 79V

[Hardingfv32]

If RA wanted to make the kink safer they could just straighten it out a little. If that makes things too fast then slow the exit of the Carousel. All this is within the tracks property boundaries.

I say the Pro racing groups are not that concerned at this point.

Brian

[E1pix]

I could be in err but think that's the normal runoff there — at least in the years since the chicane was added.

I've never raced there but imagine the distance from wall to course looks significantly tighter when on course and affected by KPF (Kink Pucker Factor).

[E1pix]

If RA wanted to make the kink safer they could just...

NOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!

Please, to whom may be reading, do not screw up one of like two remaining international tracks running in its original configuration.

What Panoz did to Road Atlanta was a hanging offense. Tilkedrome sanitization design group, same.

While road racing languishes before our eyes, it seems most do not recognize that when it's no longer exciting to watch live races, crowds go elsewhere. Racing needs more sex appeal again.

[Rick Kirchner]

<sub>Last time I was at RA it was for the 1985-ish CART event. I've never driven it, so I was just scoping it out on google earth. No way that RR track is active. At the crossroads heading into the track, the rails are rusty and the street view shows the tracks are asphalted in too much for a train to pass without derailing. They're concreted over in Plymouth south of the track and north of the track at Garton Rd.

Wonder if RA ever asked the RR for an easement?</sub>

[Keith Carter]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Ql16lfGmn9A
so check out the video at 13:22.
the announcers say it’s the kink, but it could be somewhere else, as it’s kind of hard with the rain.
that is what got me thinking it has new, additional runoff?
it just looks bigger than I remember from inside the car and I have been racing here since 1977.
Fletch
March 79V

Nope, that's how it has always been. It just looks like there isn't any room there as you're doing 120mph.

Just curious if they also added Safer-Barrier to the inside-exit of the Kink ? (and a ways down-track)
Seems 50% of "offs" there end up sliding across track & smacking the concrete wall on track-right...as I did in 2015.

Glenn

I don't really think it would be a place for a safer-barrier. At that point you've already changed directions and your velocity is significantly less from the dropping a tire and looping it around crash scenario. Safer-Barriers are to avoid the high impact into concrete disaster.

[fletch]

Keith,
I think you are right!
I dug up some of my in car from last year and the outside wall is in the same location.
It sure does look closer from in the car!
What has changed is they have added a strip of asphalt on the outside of the rumble strip, not that i would ever plan on using that!?!?
Fletch
March 79V

[john f]

I would question the value of a Safer Barrier for most of the participant that use this forum. They are design to absorb energy levels that are much greater than our SCCA cars can generally generate. For most of us it is going seem no different than hitting a K barrier.

Am I wrong?

Brian

They also remove about half of the inserted panels for indy car compared to nascar as there is a significant weight difference and if not removed lighter cars would think it was concrete.

john f

[swiftdrivr]

NOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!

Please, to whom may be reading, do not screw up one of like two remaining international tracks running in its original configuration.


While road racing languishes before our eyes, it seems most do not recognize that when it's no longer exciting to watch live races, crowds go elsewhere. Racing needs more sex appeal again.

I doubt Barry Blackmore is feeling very sexy right now. Some sections of track have a record of carnage that demands their modification [and I'm a traditionalist]

[DanW]

Unlikely they can increase runoff room. The left side of the kink is a railroad right of way and LaBudde Creek.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Ro...!4d-87.9868087

[Rick Kirchner]

But the RR is long out of action. RA should ask them for a long term lease. The creek and wetlands, well, that's another issue entirely.

[Max Power]

Unlikely they can increase runoff room. The left side of the kink is a railroad right of way and LaBudde Creek.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Ro...!4d-87.9868087

Zoom out a little and you can see how close the barrier comes to the RR track at the "Bend". Why couldn't the barrier be similar distance away from the tracks at the Kink, past the flag station? BTW, RA did tons of work clearing trees to make the new spectator path on the inside of the track all the way to Canada Corner.

[john f]

But the RR is long out of action. RA should ask them for a long term lease. The creek and wetlands, well, that's another issue entirely.

Wrong! Wisconsin and Southern Railway. Class 2 regional rail road that operates in southern Wisconsin. Rails are still in use.

john f

[Rick Kirchner]

Wrong! Wisconsin and Southern Railway. Class 2 regional rail road that operates in southern Wisconsin. Rails are still in use.

john f

Really? Because you can go on google earth and look at every crossing from Street View. Most are paved over. In towns on either side whole sections of track are missing. Looks like it hasn't been ballasted or had maintenance on the ties in many years.

[TrackBrat]

Ok I can answer the questions and put and end to the debate about what was done with the kink.

Updates were done before the 2019 season.

For starters the barriers were moved back a bit, including at the flag station. and additional row of tires was added.
I don't remember what the exact amount was but I would say it is in the area of under 10 feet maybe in 5 feet of additional runoff. Most of the runoff has been added if straight off impact. They had to make a poured concrete barrier for the SAFER barrier to be mounted on. Similar poured walls have been put up at various spots over the years replacing the jersey barriers.

In addition to the added runoff there was additional curbing installed beyond the painted exit curbs. There was extra curbing there before but now it is significantly wider than before.

You can see what it looks like with the updates from this picture last year.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D9mRiRIU...g&name=900x900

Go to 1:20 to see a comparison of 2018 visor cam to see the difference before barrier was added.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=diPUI54oRjs

You might notice during events there will be a truck with a trailer parked in "The Bend," aka motorcycle chicane. This equipment is for repairing the SAFER barrier. As for clearing more area for runoff, the issue isn't about clearing trees and such, it is the property line. The fence for the property is literally the back of the flag station at 11.

[RA4miles]

I found this site while looking for updates on Barry Blackmore's accident during the Weathertech weekend. I had met Barry back 2013. I was shooting at corner 8 and caught his entire 2012 accident. I was introduced to Barry to see if you wanted the images, which he did. I also met his wife and both are great. I had heard rumors about the accident at the track but was looking for facts. I hope Barry has a speedy recovery.

For the Kink, I think I am one of the few photographers who has shot at both 11 and 11b over the years. Yes, the RR tracks are very close to corner 11 and are a couple of feet or more lower then the track, if I recall correctly. After RA installed the new barrier, I dont think they would remove it and place it further from the track due the cost(my thought, RA installed it as close the RR tracks as possible). This is the first time I shot at 11 with the new Safer Barrier in place. It does seem to be a little further from the track but not much. I have not compared this years images with older ones. I think they could add the safer barrier on the outside until 12 but 11b and the inside of the track is a different story without a lot of expense to the track, there is not much room in places with the newer golf cart path and I think I would call it a drainage ditch(if I recall my history, the track had water issues during storms in years past with water running over the track) between the path and the track.

It is a tough call on what do you do with the Kink. Leave it as is, use the chicane or change the track in some other way. Having the track in its original configuration makes it unique in the world.

I tried to upload some images of 11 and 11b for the weekend but could not figure out how.

Dave

[E1pix]

I’m another photographer who’s shot there. Quite a thrill, first time I did I was 15 and watched closely by nervous corner workers.

I doubt Barry Blackmore is feeling very sexy right now.

Deliberately out of context again, I see.

With all respects and concern for Mr. Blackmore — in contrast to your using the poor guy in such a manner — racing can be dangerous and we all know that when doing it.

And as I’ve said, the same’s true with mountaineering, where some propose inroads to sanitize and reduce inherent dangers in that as well. The real danger is that at some point, we might as well stay in bed.

I do wish a full recovery to Mr. Blackmore. Brain damage can be an unending nightmare that he surely doesn’t deserve.