E-track on trailer walls & other suggestions?

[TedV]

The Promaster van was a disastrous failure so I am back to a Suburban tow vehicle and trailer. I’m looking at 6x10 to 7x12 sloped V-nose trailer. Whichever cable hook to the door width will let a CFF roll in. The smaller the better for aero drag and MPG. For a few dollars more I can special order one how I want it compared to the local lot trailers that have no bells and whistles.

So, what details would be nice to have? Most are about 6’ to 6’3” floor to ceiling with more cost for more head room along with more aero drag and less MPG. Lead time is 10-14 days for trailer with most basic items. Electrical, A/C, windows, non-standard doors, etc. can take up to 4-5 weeks.

E-track: They weld the E-track to the frame tubing and the plywood then is flush. I like that better than screwing it to the plywood as an afterthought. I’m thinking 2 runs in the floor just inside the car wheel width to tie down car or kart. Debating 2 runs on each wall but not sure on exact heights to request. Low to tie off items on the floor, high for shelf and hanging a hammock. I probably will be camping in it at some events.

What do y’all think on the wall track height? 18” to 24” from the floor for the lower track? 24” down from ceiling to 48” up from the floor for the upper? Upper might be nice for tire racks, shelving, hammock hanging. Although, hammock might be better higher up. Tire racks and usable storage shelving is more important than hammock.

Any other suggestions on what is nice to have and worth getting put on when manufactured? Most recommend extended tongue on a V-nose for tighter turning ability. I also see the con of more distance for air to come back in and hit the trailer=more drag and worse MPG. Part of me would like a low roof for the economy but usability suffers at events. Price is a concern from cost to purchase to cost of use.

Single 5200 lb axle is tempting but two 3500 axles give more tire blow out peace of mind. decision, decisions...

I’m used to making do with junk other folks have thrown away. Custom order is a new experience. Brand new Promaster was great on paper, great when it worked, but electrical and mechanical failure by 10K miles. I don’t want a repeat failure.

[TimH]

My limited experience is that two axles give a much more stable and comfortable tow.

[rwoelfle]

I have had E-track on the walls of my last 2 trailers, wouldn't have a trailer built without it. I always have it put high enough to clear at least the front of the car so some cross bars can be added to make a tire rack. Also have an easy up, table and ladder strapped to the wall tracks. 30 to 36 inches has worked well for me. Have never used the wall track to tie the car down, but did see a SRF prep shop do that this past summer, something it appeared he had been doing for many years. I would consider having the floor track placed so its under the center of your tires and then use wheel bonnets or a single strap over the tire instead of tying off to suspension or chassis.
If you plan on installing a winch have the factory put a winch plate in.
If you plan to sleep in it opt for an RV style door and as much ventilation as possible. Have enough outlets in it to run a fan and any thing else you need to run.
Good luck
Rob

[Jamesbe]

Yes as Rob said. I have etrack on floor and tie car over tires. Tire rack across the car.

Also can put hooks on it for hoses, power cables etc. Also I wrapped some material around one side of my tire rack to make a hammock sort of thing. I could sleep in it but I don't... I do store my chairs and umbrellas and other light items.

Also I'd like to note I absolutely love securing the car this way. It takes me less than 2 mins to secure it. Before it was always a struggle finding a good way and being sure not to snag anything fragile. I hang the straps as I take them off they go back where they were and barely need adjustment. Rear straps can even stay on the floor.

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[Earley Motorsports]

Sent you a PM. Also I think you will want a 7ft wide. The 6ft are just a bit narrow going through the door. Remember the door opening is not 6ft, the body width is. A7ft wide trailer door is around 75” wide.

[10rmotor]

Beaver tail rear floor.

I assume you will get torsen axles. Nice thing about those is you can lower the ride height of the trailer by reclocking the swing arms up. My trailer was setup to go off road which I wasn't going to do, so I dropped it down a bit this way and that made loading a lot easier.

[Bob L.]

Etrack on floor welded to frame, then plywood butts to the sides? How do they seal the seams between the two, prevent water coming up seams or thru the track? Those concerns should be covered.

Think best to mount the track on top, with major bolting thru wood where both cross the supporting members in frame... under wood, use back up angles down the length of track if worried about intermediate attachment points...pull out.... or better yet...have 2 angles down length of track (or formed channels from 16ga or heavier, legs down) welded to frame to seal and provide multiple attachments down each track... E track is pretty whimpy between each attachment...long spans bad...

Just an observation from info posted...

Bob L.

[TedV]

Tim, Agreed the dual axles are more relaxing to tow and can limp it to the shoulder or next exit if need be. I most likely won’t be swayed by the light weight side and go for peace of mind and security. Lol

Rob & James, Thanks! The largest tire I think I will ever run would be in the 23” range. A couple more inches for clearance to get them in a rack could be good. Last summer after the Prodisaster went back to Chrysler, I rented a box truck with no floor tie downs, only wall E-track. 2 karts and electric lift secured by the wall. Looked like a spider web but hauled without issues. Will do some more thinking on the tire straps. Bias ply tires that hold air are defective as they are made with too much rubber. lol Ever have issues with deflated tires and movement? Hopefully all 4 don’t go flat. Then there is the discussion of shock movement and said discussion turns into a thread like “what’s your favorite oil”, or making motorcycle engines and 2 strokes equally competitive in the same class. That discussion could get ugly… I may end up hauling the local FSAE teams kart to events for their drivers to get seat time. Need to make more measurements. The top and bottom wall tracks might be getting closer together.

Graham, Replied to PM. Understand about the door opening. Friend got a 5’ wide trailer for his kart only to find the door was narrower than 55” and he has to take wheels off to make it fit. 6’ wide door has cables 60”ish apart. 7’ wide has them 72”ish apart. Lost my notes on the CFF dimensions so I have to go back out and measure it. 62” comes to mind though.

10r, Not sure if any 12’ has beaver available without a long lead time. Torsion axles are on the build list. They ride smoother and are lower profile. As they age they may result in camber wear on the inside of the tires. I’m wise enough to look at the inside edge before heading down the road, so I can live with that.

Bob, supposedly for the floor they weld the track to a wider metal plate and then that gets welded to the frame. The wall has the skin to seal it so wall track is welded to the wall studs. Should make for an overall stronger trailer.

Other details on the list are:
12” on center floor studs instead of the 16” floor and wall. All studs are square or rectangle tubing not bent channel.
Heavier duty rear door along with that heavier load rating floor as I might haul my compact lawn tractor.
One piece roof as I hate roof leaks like the Prodisaster had.
At least .030 skin. Not sure if it’s needed to go thicker or to go semi screwless.
Most come with RV side door. I would like to add bar lock on the side door. Our local club trailer was victim of pry-in and they stole everything that could get sold at pawn shop or flea market.

Thanks y'all

[Jamesbe]

I run radials so not an issue holding air. But I suppose just check them if it's a long haul. I also only typically haul 40 mins to the local track. But picked up my PFM 8 hours away didn't move

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[10rmotor]

Not sure how a torsen axle trailer would have camber problems, doesn't seem possible. If it did you have major problems.

And yeah, the trailer would need to be custom made I suppose, I haven't looked at designs on 12' enclosed trailers!

[TedV]

I thought they looked like radials. I have some short tows but then I also have some closer to 950 mile tows. A lot can happen in 14 hours.

I'm not sure why so many torsion axles seem to do that. Could be they all lead an abused life. A question best answered by a trailer expert. I wonder if Peter Calhoun remembers anything from his previous gig?

[DanW]

I have E-track on the walls of my Featherlite trailer 24" above the floor. They are only as good as the wall they are attached. The aluminum ribs are 24" on centers and of limited holding capacity. I had secured a load with straps to the e-track near the side door and had a difficult time opening the door due to the flex of the walls.

Regards,
Dan

[Daryl DeArman]

I'd encourage you to spring for 6'6" roof height, minimum.

The difference in MPG behind a suburban will be minimal. Later on when you decide to resell it, most of your potential customers will be able to stand up inside and won't have to duck to go in the rear or side doors.

[10rmotor]

I'm not sure why so many torsion axles seem to do that. Could be they all lead an abused life. A question best answered by a trailer expert. I wonder if Peter Calhoun remembers anything from his previous gig?

I've not seen camber problems on trailer tires, but I don't check that aspect of tire condition. By the time I get to it its already blown! I do check pressure before every trip. I think they're just old. This is on dual and triple axle trailers.

[lowside67]

Other details on the list are:
12” on center floor studs instead of the 16” floor and wall. All studs are square or rectangle tubing not bent channel.
Heavier duty rear door along with that heavier load rating floor as I might haul my compact lawn tractor.
One piece roof as I hate roof leaks like the Prodisaster had.
At least .030 skin. Not sure if it’s needed to go thicker or to go semi screwless.
Most come with RV side door. I would like to add bar lock on the side door. Our local club trailer was victim of pry-in and they stole everything that could get sold at pawn shop or flea market.

12” OC floor studs is totally overkill. Budget car haulers (8.5x20) typically come with 24” OC on the floor while premium models often upgrade to 16”. For a small trailer like 6x12, the spans are even shorter and the loads much lighter - I would happily have a 24” OC floor for your use. If you truly want to overbuild, can upgrade to 16”.

I note a standard 6x12 ATC raven is 24” OC for floor, walls, and roof.

-Mark

[PCalhoun]

Ted had reached out to me, based on my previous life as an FF owner while working at Pace American. Though I am now at Michelin and motorsport manager of BFGoodrich.

As a general rule of thumb (there are exceptions) you get what you pay for and yes prices all all over the place. From low-cost factory direct options in south Georgia to recognized names based most often in northern Indiana. Some brands can be highly regional.

From a construction stand-point it starts w/ the frame. Is it I-beam or tube, are the wall posts z-post or tube, Is the tongue C-channel or tube? Then when you move inside what thickness is the plywood floor or is it composite board? Are the walls thin 1/4" Luann or 3/8 plywood, is the interior and exterior lighting incandescent or LED?

Are the axles Dexter spring or Torsion or an unknown axle, brake, and bearing assembly from China. Wheels and tires unfortunately are one of those key ares where they are all a saving money and few will pay a premium for a better quality tire, but they most often do have an option to get a Goodyear trailer tire for example.

Is the exterior skin .024 or .030 aluminum on 16" center wall posts?

Be careful of the v-nose in my opinion you are adding tongue weight and the aero improvement and thus the effect on fuel economy minimal. A much larger difference is going narrower so the trailer hides behind the truck, as the truck is punching the hole through the air; and side overhang of the trailer adds considerable drag. Then go 2' longer if you need the sq ft capacity.

For e-track or airline track (much cleaner) it is always fastened to the steel floor or wall posts, NEVER directly to plywood unless you want to experience a WTF moment when you stop for fuel someday and see your cargo loose like a pinball.

Then the big question, which goes back to my #1...what brand. The industry has charged a lot over the last 10 years post recession and it is an easy industry to enter, thus brands come and go. I can tell you that Bravo, ATC, and Intech are my top three for quality and features. Yes, they are not the cheapest and I am not sure if Intech is doing any steel frame or only aluminum, the other two do both.

Bravo is owned by my ex-Boss, longtime SCCA member and racer Mitch Bender based out of Bristol, IN, but they have dealers pretty much west of the Rockies. www.bravotrailers.com

Hope this is helpful to some of you as spring and race season approaches.

[Lotus7]

A much larger difference is going narrower so the trailer hides behind the truck, as the truck is punching the hole through the air; and side overhang of the trailer adds considerable drag.

I agree totally in context, but some narrower trailers have surprisingly narrow widths between wheel wells inside.
Won't matter if your car fits and you intend to drive the trailer into the ground, but it may reduce the size of the buying audience in the future if you need to sell.

[TedV]

Peter, thanks for the crash course in trailer details. The construction you list is how https://www.usacargotrailersales.com/ from south central GA say they build theirs with some points being optional upgrades. 16” on center tube is their standard build. I did not see if they specify Dexter axles. The bearings from the trailer stores selling Dexter parts all say made in China. I regrease and inspect my bearings between events in my yard. I fix my friends trailers at the event or on the side of the road.

Aero concern is why I was thinking the 6’ wide but after doublechecking measurements, I will have to get a 7’ wide. FF would fit in door of a 6-footer but will hit the cables with 60” distance between eyelets. Before they reworked their web page, they did list a 7’ wide trailer with the wheels boxed in using the axles from the 6’ wide trailer so they did not stick out giving less drag. I don’t see that option listed now. I think that’s what Lotus7 is eluding to. Most all the 6-7’ cargo trailers I’m finding now have exterior wheels and fenders.

The huge square hole creating a vacuum behind the trailer is where most drag comes from. Standard height of 6’3” has a door height of 5’9”. Would cost $180 for a 6’6” roof with a 6’ door height giving less headaches adds 1.75 square foot of frontal area. Suburban is basically 6’x6’. Trailer 7’wide X 8.5’tall.

Wanna play, gotta pay. Wanna be comfortable, gotta pay more.

[Earley Motorsports]

Having a trailer wide enough to just roll the car in after a long weekend of racing in the heat as we in the South quite often do is nice. Having to change the wheels to get the car in would be a pain when you are completely knackered but smiling. A lot of good pros and cons brought up.

[Jim Edmonds]

I've said this before. In my opinion almost all trailer manufacturers under-tire their trailers. My rule of thumb is to never load a trailer tire at over 70% of it's maximum rating. I'm a fan of dual axles and Dexter torsion axles but you need to be sensitive to tongue height. On both my 20' and 24' trailers, when I raise the tongue to disconnect from the hitch, I can raise the front axle off the ground. That puts all of the weight on the rear tires, so it is important to level the trailer after unhitching.

At the start of every trip of more than one day I stop at the local truck stop weigh the trailer with the rear axles split between two of the scale pads. I want about 500 pounds more on the front axle than the rear axle; still 70% or under the load ratings. After a while one learns the hitch height setting and air bag pressure that works. BTW, CAT Certified Automated Truck scales have 5 load cells per pad so they are still relatively accurate when loaded off center.

A few years ago a sedan friend told me of his return drive from COTA to Phoenix in the heat. 24' trailer with 15 inch tires (undersized for the load). He noticed on his TPS the front tires had a lot more temperature than the rears, so he used his in cab air bag control to raise the hitch height. Watched the front temps go down and the rears up. Said he "played" with the air bag pressures all the way back to keep the temps under control. The point is with torsion axles and approaching maximum tire loads, one might want to pay attention to setup.

Or start with bigger wheels that would allow higher load rating tires.

Sometimes when you buy a trailer there isn't clearance to go to bigger wheels and tires, so that is worth looking at when you spec the trailer.

Is this excessive? Yes, but I hate changing flats in the desert when it is 115 degrees, Ha.

YMMV Have fun

Jim

[TedV]

How about tongue length? I've seen plenty of square front trailers that show dents from tight turns, V-nose has even less clearance. lots of places recommend extended tongue with V-nose. Closer is better MPG, farther means you can turn in a tight spot. I'm thinking pay the price, stretch it out and be able to turn.

Having a trailer wide enough to just roll the car in after a long weekend of racing in the heat as we in the South quite often do. Having to change the wheels to get the car in would be a pain when you are completely knackered but smiling. A lot of good pros and cons brought up.

Also nice when the sudden thunderstorm rolls in with 1"+ rain and hour, hail, and lightning. One time at Roebling years ago, we all were piled in the 24' tire trailer, yelling at a guy to get inside out of the standing water from the deluge. Lightning hit close and he got a bit zapped. We didn't feel anything other than the boom and the smell of ozone. Glad his kid listened and got in the trailer. Guy was dazed for a while after. Lucky it didn't hurt em bad or kill him.

Jim points out why I'm leaning back towards the dual 3500 axles at least. I like the less weight idea of a single but feel it might be too risky. CAT scales are a good tool. I've used them a bunch over the years. Coworkers even gave me heck for removing the tail gate off the dually so I could carry more fuel and stay under 26K pounds. Friend has the TPS on his new toyhauler and I do like the added info. I like the trick of balancing temps.

I could fill up another thread with all the crazy stuff I've seen over the years on trailer tires, bearings and travel trailers wrecked along the highway. Oh, and all the fun of maneuvering around travel centers that say they have RV fuel pumps.. yeah, extended tongue so the darn rig can turn tight.

[Rick Kirchner]

Goodyear makes an E rated 15" tire. You'll need rims rated for the higher pressure. I hope they keep making them, because it's the best trailer tire I've ever had.

On the issue of a long tongue - I increased mine by 18" and pushed the trailer out behind the air shadow of the motor home. As a result, pay 2x the drag penalty....

[mousecatcher]

I like L-track on the floor but then you have 2 different types of track.

I think knee height and hip height if you have just 2 rows? elbow height if 3.

[TedV]

Rick, good point about the tires. I converted my open trailer from 14" to 15" rims and have been happy. One detail lots of folks miss with the high pressure tires, must use proper valve stems. Metal or the high pressure rubber base, not the standard rubber stem as the standard rubber can eject = instant flat.

Do you find the longer tongue helps you maneuver the rig in tight spots and is worth the drag and fuel hit? I looked at some used trailers last night and all had short tongue with bumper dents in the rock plate. My Burb had a tweaked bumper when I got it and the guy only towed a bass boat.

I wanted the L-track in the Prodisaster build out as it's compact and clean, but thankfully the van proved to be unreliable before the money got spent. E-track seems so much more common with more attachment accessories.

[Rick Kirchner]

The longer tongue helps dramatically in tight spots. only trailer though, it makes it pretty unstable backing up. It's not an issue with the motor home, which has a huge lever arm from the back tires to the hitch. I barely move the steering wheel and the trailer responds NOW.

On my truck though, once the damn thing gets out of line there's no getting it back unless you have a lot of room, so backing involves a lot of iterations.

[Jayeff]

Be careful of the load capacity on stock tires. Often they come with Chinese tires and a max rating of 75 mph which at times is a problem. I bought new and then switched my tires over to Goodyear.

[Joe Henslee]

I believe all ST (trailer designation) tires are rated for max speed of 65 mph(not 75), regardless of load range (ply X) of manufacturer...it's just the spec requirement. Not sure what speed everyone else tows, but simply take a look along the shoulder of any interstate and you will notice many RV / trailers with blown tires, not to mention the collateral damage. While the newer Goodyear Endurance series seems to be a significant improvement in design and quality of it predecessor and an extreme improvement over the Chinese variations, all of my trailers are upgraded to LT(Light Truck) versions and increased to 16" rims rated for load appropriate. Like Ted V said, proper hi pressure valves (which most trailer suppliers / vendors don't use). Passenger rubber stems (i.e. 412/413...) are rated to 50 psi, not the 65 & 80 needed for D & E range tires. With the LT upgrades on all my trailers, I have never had a heat / load failure. BTW, have you ever looked very close at any new "ST" tire supplied with most trailers? I would compare them to temp spares in your trunk rated for 50 mi / 50 mph. I like to refer to both as "tireless tubes" . (Spent my early career as a heavy truck industry applications / final manufacturer certification engineer and dealt with TRA and FMVSS) .
Regarding torsions vs leaf springs w/ rockers on multi axle, the torsions are much more critical on " leveling the trailer" to evenly distribute loads on all axle positions, where leaf springs w/ rockers maintain even distribution over a significant hi/lo tongue to tail height variation.

[Daryl DeArman]

I believe all ST (trailer designation) tires are rated for max speed of 65 mph(not 75), regardless of load range (ply X) of manufacturer...it's just the spec requirement.

True until 2015.

From then on the tires also carry a speed rating:

M - 81 mph
L - 75 mph
J - 62 mph

[Purple Frog]

I've had one trailer for 17 years. (can't even come close to how long DaveW has had his, 40+ ?)
It was one of the inexpensive rigs built by one of dozens of fly-by-night companies in South Georgia.
At the time I was towing with a Ford Expedition, and was concerned about drag. Got the V nose. 20'. Went with only 7' wide.
The 6' roof takes a little getting used to.
No failure in 17 years with the glue on sides.
I immediately painted the inside, and put heavy duty tile on the floor. before i ever used it.
I installed "D" rings into the floor with reinforcement plates underneath tied into steel cross beams.
I put "E" channel on the wall at two levels, but only where it was needed. (serious budget issues)
When I was seriously driving 70+ all over the country I tossed the tires every 3 years. I've done Goodyear, and China. Have never had a failure.
I personally think beaver tails are a waste of time for low formula cars. And a PIA when you use the trailer for other uses.
That said, I was anal about getting the correct tongue weight, And, the trailer never exceeded 7,000# with two 3500 Dexter axles.
I tried to keep the trailer flat so weight was fairly even on both axles.
Changed it out to LED lights.
Never used or needed load lever bars. Only use one cheap friction anti-sway bar.
Would go to California with it tomorrow.

OBTW. The current motorhome does not even know the trailer is behind.

[John Robinson II]

Per Dave W, light truck tires only way to go. Outside of that replace trailer rated tires every 2 years. I whole heartedly agree after losing 4 tires before getting out of Florida on trip to the ARRC. Bought all new ones in Valdosta. In 2years will replace them with lt rated.

John

[Garey Guzman]

Per Dave W, light truck tires only way to go. Outside of that replace trailer rated tires every 2 years. I whole heartedly agree after losing 4 tires before getting out of Florida on trip to the ARRC. Bought all new ones in Valdosta. In 2years will replace them with lt rated.

John

Once again, you beat me. Going to RRR last Feb, I lost 3 tires getting there, the 4th died on the way back. But they were all 4 years old.

[Josh R.]

I've shared this here a few times I think, but I got these for the front wheels of the FM in my trailer:

https://www.etrailer.com/Ratchet-Str...n/EM09160.html

As I'm by myself most of the time when loading/unloading the trailer these work GREAT for helping me make sure I got the car in the right spot, make sure it doesn't roll out of the trailer and easy-peasy strap the front wheels down. I couldn't be happier with how these thing have worked out. ONE problem is that sticky race rubber will pull off flakes of powdercoat if it's compromised (like by a rock). At some point I'll pull them out and use bedliner or something on them. For the back tires I have recessed D-rings.

FWIW, I have a 7x12 slant v-nose single axle trailer and I love it. I had a longer double axle trailer before so backing this one into tight spots is kind of a pain in comparison. A good thing about a single axle that I didn't see mentioned here is that in tight, slow-speed turns you're not always dragging 2 tires at an angle like with a double axle. Not sure if this applies to you where you live or not. For me to get out of town and to the highway there are MANY such turns and it quickly showed itself on the tires of my double axle trailer.

[TedV]

Garey, are you sure you weren't running JR2's used trailer tires?? Don't be tempted.

Most I ever lost in one trip was 3 on the 48' gooseneck. Had coworker preflight the rig, specifically the trailer tires and bearings "all is good" Down at Homestead, found all trailer tires bald or corded on the inside, looked great on outside edge. Flipped the bald, replaced the corded with spares on trailer leaving me with no spare for trailer. Blew one more on Fl Turnpike, Dug out tire machine, mounted truck spare on trailer rim. Back at warehouse Rodney had us mount 6 chinese trailer tires. First trip back from FL center axle tire belt broke, expanded and was rubbing on both front and rear tires. Swapped it for spare in Valdosta. Back at warehouse Rodney cussed and threw things for an hour and we put 6 new LT tires on trailer. Yup, I agree on the LT tires with a suitable load rating. Maybe all the trailer manufacture places are in S.GA because everyone breaks down around there?

Adjustable height hitch was already on the upgrade list. I always have some of these wheel chocks. https://www.northerntool.com/shop/to...4358_200594358 Work great for small cars but not really easy to drive over.