Van Diemen RF77/RF78

[triumph76]

Considering stepping up to Formula Ford, so please excuse some of my ignorance.

Among the makes I've checked into, Van Diemen looks to be at the top for driveability for a newcomer, support, parts, etc...At the 50th at Road America, all of the Van Diemens were the RF81 model, which I understand is the one to have. But why only the RF81?

Anyone car to share opinions on the RF77 or 78? A bit of info I've read on the RF77 was that they were a little weak at the rear and the RF78 had some additional frame work to solve the issue. How do you tell if a RF77 had the update done? The RF79 went away from a side radiator to front radiator. Stay away from a side radiator car?

Would appreciate any insight. ApexSpeed folks have always been great with any help I needed.

Thanks in advance!
Andy

[swiftdrivr]

I drove a 78, and there is nothing wrong with that car as far as I know. It handled well, was faster than I was, and as you said, support remains a plus. Just for consideration, Adrian Aveni is nearly giving away a Swift DB-1, and there are a ton of DB-1s still out there. Support shouldn't be an issue there either. Just depends on what you are looking for.

[TimH]

DB-1s for some reason are a glut on the market the last few months. The only question is whether you can fit in one. As for whether they're competitive, don't forget one finished third at the Runoffs just a few years ago.

[triumph76]

I should probably clarify that I'm looking at racing in Club Formula Ford.
Thanks for the advice so far!

[Roland V. Johnson]

The Crossle 32 - 35 series cars are plentiful, fast, easy to drive and a great parts supply also, By the way, one of the cars that gave
Treadway a run at both Indy and Road America was a 1970 Titan Mk-6........and no the engine was not illegal, just a fresh Ivey.

[TimH]

The Crossle 32 - 35 series cars are plentiful, fast, easy to drive and a great parts supply also, By the way, one of the cars that gave
Treadway a run at both Indy and Road America was a 1970 Titan Mk-6........and no the engine was not illegal, just a fresh Ivey.

..with a pretty fair driver...

IIRC there was a Lotus 59 that wasn't exactly slow.

[AVR_Shane]

The Crossle 32 - 35 series cars are plentiful, fast, easy to drive and a great parts supply also, By the way, one of the cars that gave
Treadway a run at both Indy and Road America was a 1970 Titan Mk-6........and no the engine was not illegal, just a fresh Ivey.

Are you trying to imply that it has to do with prep work and the nut behind the wheel rather than the actual car itself?! Impossible!

IMO, there are a couple ways to go about it. You can go for something that's "cool" and "different" but still a proven car either currently or in its day. The problem with that is it can be a huge pain to get replacement parts if anything goes wrong, which it will. The other way to go about it is to get a Van Diemen or a Crossle. There are tons of them running around here with full support on parts.

I've always been a sucker for something different, and I absolutely love having a car that you don't see very often, but is still able to be at the pointy end of the field...there's definitely something to be said about having a common car though...

[provamo]

both Tom Davey and Michael Strawbridge (?) were pretty fast as they blew by me at Watkins Glen.........................great looking cars


or maybe the second driver was Peter Kuhn lol

[E1pix]

If you mean Davey's teammate, Yes, that was Kuhn.

[marty7]

Hi Andy,

I'd go for a RF79 or RF80 over a RF81/82 any day. At club level the car makes very little difference. Back in the day the RF80 was still competitive in 1981. The RF81 is a RF80 with inboard front suspension and different one piece main bodywork.
. The
I've owned a couple of RF80's. An outboard suspension car is quicker and easier to set up for a novice/amateur . Being outboard the suspension is very easy to set up and eay to replace should you need to. The chassis is strong and stiff. Being out board front end there is more foot room. The rear end was carried over to the RF81. So with that in mind you have a very simple rear end. The engine mounting is good and robust. Lastly out board suspension is easier to wide track. You can gain an inch easily by winding gout the rod ends. 1979 to 1982 were a good cars - it helped the works drives were rapid. Lastly URS in the UK can supply most parts.

Considering stepping up to Formula Ford, so please excuse some of my ignorance.

Among the makes I've checked into, Van Diemen looks to be at the top for driveability for a newcomer, support, parts, etc...At the 50th at Road America, all of the Van Diemens were the RF81 model, which I understand is the one to have. But why only the RF81?

Anyone car to share opinions on the RF77 or 78? A bit of info I've read on the RF77 was that they were a little weak at the rear and the RF78 had some additional frame work to solve the issue. How do you tell if a RF77 had the update done? The RF79 went away from a side radiator to front radiator. Stay away from a side radiator car?

Would appreciate any insight. ApexSpeed folks have always been great with any help I needed.

Thanks in advance!
Andy

[marty7]

I meant to add - looking at the RF79 and RF80 Van diemens at the FF 50th none were set up right. Wrong spacer set up on the front, rear radius rods bolted to the wrong point on the chassis mounts. It broke my heart to see that. Cars had USA slick set up on the European taller Avon or Hoosier type tyre.

[billtebbutt]

Hi Andy,

I'd go for a RF79 or RF80 over a RF81/82 any day. At club level the car makes very little difference. Back in the day the RF80 was still competitive in 1981. The RF81 is a RF80 with inboard front suspension and different one piece main bodywork.
. The
I've owned a couple of RF80's. An outboard suspension car is quicker and easier to set up for a novice/amateur . Being outboard the suspension is very easy to set up and eay to replace should you need to. The chassis is strong and stiff. Being out board front end there is more foot room. The rear end was carried over to the RF81. So with that in mind you have a very simple rear end. The engine mounting is good and robust. Lastly out board suspension is easier to wide track. You can gain an inch easily by winding gout the rod ends. 1979 to 1982 were a good cars - it helped the works drives were rapid. Lastly URS in the UK can supply most parts.

I concur on URS. A pleasure to deal with on my 82. Really smart folks! Ask for Simon!

best
bt

[marty7]

Yes - Simon is a top guy and very knowledgeable.

I concur on URS. A pleasure to deal with on my 82. Really smart folks! Ask for Simon!

best
bt

[marty7]

Photos of Vd's. Blue/white is a RF79. White car is a NZ built copy RF80 with 81 type bodywork. The last one is a RF80.

Mod note, massive clean up required.
Please review your posts/photo links

Yes - Simon is a top guy and very knowledgeable.

[stonebridge20]

That was a LONG read !

[Keith Robinson]

Considering stepping up to Formula Ford, so please excuse some of my ignorance.

Among the makes I've checked into, Van Diemen looks to be at the top for driveability for a newcomer, support, parts, etc...At the 50th at Road America, all of the Van Diemens were the RF81 model, which I understand is the one to have. But why only the RF81?

Anyone car to share opinions on the RF77 or 78? A bit of info I've read on the RF77 was that they were a little weak at the rear and the RF78 had some additional frame work to solve the issue. How do you tell if a RF77 had the update done? The RF79 went away from a side radiator to front radiator. Stay away from a side radiator car?

Would appreciate any insight. ApexSpeed folks have always been great with any help I needed.

Thanks in advance!
Andy

I've owned RF79 and 80 Van Diemens; loved the cars, simple to work on, parts available and easy to drive; perfect starter car.
Once you have learned how to drive FF just add $$$$$ (new tires every race, fresh Ivey engine every 6 hours!) and you can be a winner!

[marty7]

Sorry I stuffed up trying to load photos.

[Keith Robinson]

Nice looking cars, some original ideas on the '79'. The oil cooler mounting is interesting, which exhaust manifold worked best; you have what looks like an original in one photo and a custom made 'low hanger' in another?
The original mirrors looked very aerodynamic but I could never see out of them very well!

[Roland V. Johnson]

Keith, if you are needing to rebuild an Ivey engine every 6 hours you are doing something seriously wrong!

[swiftdrivr]

I have Rollin go through the motor every 2 years [12 weekends, typically], And I am getting over 20 heat cycles with the spec radials. Not sure about club tires, but not many people are buying a new set every weekend, I'd be willing to bet.

[Keith Robinson]

Gentlemen I was exaggerating but my point was you will need to spend money to get to the front (even if you have the talent).
Personally I'm a happy mid-pack fun/vintage racer kinda guy. I maintain my own engines and gearboxes and mostly use the front runners cast-off tires!! I have been known to buy new tires, but not very often. Bye the way, I love the VFF Hoosier vintage tires they last a season and aren't too bad in the rain.

Returning to the original post; Formula Fords, at club level, are easy to learn to drive and are cheaper to maintain than most sedans or sports cars. They are definitely more fun and higher on the adrenaline scale!

[swiftdrivr]

Gentlemen I was exaggerating

Returning to the original post; Formula Fords, at club level, are easy to learn to drive and are cheaper to maintain than most sedans or sports cars. They are definitely more fun and higher on the adrenaline scale!

Glad to know it was an exaggeration. I just didn't want to scare off a new racer, who might have taken it seriously.

[triumph76]

Too late...I've focused on a new hobby and bought an underwater basket weaving starter kit. It's Cyber Monday.

I caught the joke. I run a Vee and know a couple of guys who run FF. More speed + more $$$ = more fun.

I came into the world with no money, and it's my intent to go out that way!

Thanks everybody for the helpful input.

Andy

[Keith Robinson]

Too late...I've focused on a new hobby and bought an underwater basket weaving starter kit. It's Cyber Monday.

I caught the joke. I run a Vee and know a couple of guys who run FF. More speed + more $$$ = more fun.

I came into the world with no money, and it's my intent to go out that way!

Thanks everybody for the helpful input.

Andy

That's the spirit; 'never seen a U-Haul behind a hearse' as they say!
If you're a Vee driver you will love FF.
Local young Vee racer up here got in a FF for one practice session; got within half a second of the FF track record! He new the correct 'line' from all his Vee laps (he had that track record already!). Vee+more power+more rubber= fast!!

[marty7]

The key is to work out at what level will you be happy. My mantra is "I do this for fun'. Now I like running up near the front, but NZ is low key. I have requested to start off the back of the grid. man that's hard work, a heap of fun and by god it improves your race craft. Most think that the front runners have demon engines. This is not true in some cases. Race craft. FF cars are momentum cars. If you have a forgiving car that you trust then you will go quick. Get track time, sort the set up. Get the brakes working right, get the gearbox changing right. A good set up will work wonders. I did a set up for one guy, as we pushed the car to be teched he told me that he needed two people to load the car in the trailer, post set up he can do it himself !! Start with understeer, as you get faster start going neutral then mild oversteer. Brakes are subjective, you need to find what you like. You need the bias to be set right - that is as much on the back up until it bites you. Gear change - good joints no free play. You want ratios with excellent dogs and dog rings with minimal wear. A FF doesn't wear out ratios or dog rings if you use Hewland parts. No clutch necessary. Fit a low clamp pressure clutch cover. Don't fail to check the basics - ignition timing, valve clearances, fuel filters, throttle is giving full open. Simple stuff but easy to overlook.

Tyres - we run the Avon ACB9 . Great tyre. I try and get my moneys worth and run them till almost slick (in the dry). They don;t seem to loose a lot of performance over multiple heat cycles. my current tyres are 3 season old, and have done about 8 events - which on average is 4 runs per event - 24 heat cycles. I may get one more event. I have put the car on pole recently with these tyres.

So long as you don't damage the car running costs aren't too bad.

Too late...I've focused on a new hobby and bought an underwater basket weaving starter kit. It's Cyber Monday.

I caught the joke. I run a Vee and know a couple of guys who run FF. More speed + more $$$ = more fun.

I came into the world with no money, and it's my intent to go out that way!

Thanks everybody for the helpful input.

Andy

[marty7]

Hi Keith, the white car is a NZ built RF80 . It has a RF81 type body that the guy made a buck and took a mold from. It's all aout board suspension. The other is a RF80 that I bought as a crashed project. I was going to do a quick rebuild and flick it. Long story short a full bare chassis rebuild. new engine rebuilt trans. The list went on. The exhaust is a special I built to save money. I made it up as I went along. Used a merge collector, a venutri neck down piece post collector. Also my engine man recons 1 3/8" dia tube from port = approx 6" long then go to 1 1/2 on primaries. I finished the car, ran it twice then sold it as I had too many projects. The new owner went down a straight neck and neck with me. Dam it had a good engine.

Nice looking cars, some original ideas on the '79'. The oil cooler mounting is interesting, which exhaust manifold worked best; you have what looks like an original in one photo and a custom made 'low hanger' in another?
The original mirrors looked very aerodynamic but I could never see out of them very well!

[AlanVDW]

My basket case RF78 came with similar oil cooler mounts, but I think the oil cooler was mounted with the AN fittings on the bottom.

[BTennessen]

I meant to add - looking at the RF79 and RF80 Van diemens at the FF 50th none were set up right. Wrong spacer set up on the front, rear radius rods bolted to the wrong point on the chassis mounts. It broke my heart to see that. Cars had USA slick set up on the European taller Avon or Hoosier type tyre.

I'm setting up a RF78, am curious about this and if anyone has more info. Car is almost ready to go and came from Formula Haus so I should be in pretty good shape but it doesn't hurt to know more.

[AlanVDW]

I had saved this in case I needed it....

https://www.apexspeed.com/forums/sho...5-Formula-Ford

[BTennessen]

I had saved this in case I needed it....

https://www.apexspeed.com/forums/sho...5-Formula-Ford

Thank you

[marty7]

When running the Dunlop, Avon or Hoosier treaded tyre you want the front upright to have the factory VD spacer fitted to the bottom of the upright (weld on). Rear radius rods - the top front link is monted as shown - not under the bracket as I have seen on some cars.

[BTennessen]

Thanks for the details. My rear radius rods are good, I'll have to verify the spacer as the car was previously running slicks.

When running the Dunlop, Avon or Hoosier treaded tyre you want the front upright to have the factory VD spacer fitted to the bottom of the upright (weld on). Rear radius rods - the top front link is monted as shown - not under the bracket as I have seen on some cars.