It has been suggested to me that I switch to an electric pump. Any preferences? Anyone have model numbers, sources, prices?
Were to you mount it?
Carter was suggested.
It has been suggested to me that I switch to an electric pump. Any preferences? Anyone have model numbers, sources, prices?
Were to you mount it?
Carter was suggested.
Brad
Happy to offer you a NEW baby facet, think I still have it. Can't see why you'd want it really but if so it's yours.
Talk of electric pumps reminds me of what I've been meaning to get around to and that is a roll over switch. Porter says no but I've been in a FF that was on fire and the idea of being upside down with pump running does not thrill me.
Any opinions?
I had a Facet pump fail on me after just 30-40 minutes of running time. It was hard to locate it as the problem because it was erratic. I used rubber to shock mount it originally but it may still have been too stiff. I replaced it with another Facet in order to make a race and added additional rubber to isolate it. I still have not decided if I am going to continue to use it.
Tim Dunn
I use an in-the-tank pump. It measures about 1" around and about 4" long, not sure what it's original purpose in life was, some honda I think. In the line, still in the tank, I also have a 3.5# pressure relief valve that deposits the extra pressure back in front of the pump. The whole idea of putting wires in the fuel was a little scary, but they do it all the time in street cars. I used a teflon coated wire and then put a couple of layers of good heat shrink just for good measure, and I use a copper tube in the pick-up to keep it aimed/positioned where I want it. I have had this in the tank for about 3 years and just checked it for the first time, and everything looked like the day it went in, no rotten wires, no gooey heat shrink (remember ERC gas from a couple of years ago!) I went this route after a couple of vibration related filters on the facet pumps, plus it cleans up the engine area quite a bit.
oops, that should say "vibration related FAILURES"
The in tank systems (street cars) is an interesting one for the FF. But most of these pumps are much, no MUCH higher pressure than what the FF needs. They are designed for feeding a fuel rail and require a return line to blow off pressure. They do not have to be place in tank however, mine is on the frame (hose clamped of course) and it works just as well there, but this is an injected motor with the proper return line.
The idea of putting it in the tank also requires some real thought on the wiring as stated above. A good job it sounds, but not everyone is as thorough. At the very least you'll be adding holes to the top plate and need to place the pump in the cell. Not everyone wants to do that, and if you have propblem you can't get to it easily.
I'd really like to see some honest hp numbers if this is the reason for the change. I just don't think it's all that much of a difference. Anyone care to share hard data?
I did a little homework. The pump I use is out of a VW, engine spec was 1.8liter for a couple of different model cars. They rate the psi at 4.1-8.5, and rate it at 50-60 gallons per hour. I remember that flow rate was kind of important. A lot of the new cars need 40-50psi, yes, but there are quite a few that rate down at what we need. After I found the psi and flow rate, I looked for the appropriate size and plumbing to fit the application. The pressure relief valve is an earls piece ordered from TMR in California, you just spec out what you want and they fiddle with the insides of the valve. I used a small bulkhead fitting filled with fuel resistant silicone to get the wires out of the tank. In my car, the top of the tank is covered by another plate that the filler neck goes thru, so the wires, heavily protected, are not exposed to the "environment". Like I said, 3+ years and no "issues" with the fuel pump.
The reason for the change is reliability, not HP. I had a problem with my engine last Sunday and was WAY down on HP. During the only lap of qualifying, it cut out like it was out of gas. We cleaned the fuel filter and it sounded better in the pits but the problem was still there during the race.
I was told the little filter in the fuel pump can get clogged and cause the problem I had described. A Carter pump was suggested.
Brad
In my 20+ years experience (scary now that I think of it)working with FF's I have never had a mechanical pump failure. I have seen several electrical failures. A fuel filter is a fuel filter and any can get stopped up. When I worked tech at the National Championship and Jay Ivey won his first title, the engine had a mechanical pump on it. Jay has repeatedly told me that the electrical pumps is not worth the trouble. Just learn how to drive the car, that will make you a lot faster.
I agree with Roland. The symptoms sound similar to those I have experienced from a loose ignition switch terminal and a failing master switch. Lots of other possibilities, too! I suggest more diagnostics.
- Frank C
2006
2007
I would suggest staying away from an electric fuel pump. A mechanical pump does not over-pressurize the line and it stops when the engine stops. I do not want to have fuel being pumped on a hot engine when I have stalled after a spin etc. or if a hose breaks etc.
another advantage is not having another current draw on the battery and all the associated electrical connections that may fail as well.
I use a steel an-6 compression fitting on both sides of the mechanical pump so that the fuel lines can be aeroquip -6 in order to eliminate rubber hoses that can melt and no hose clamps to come loose. the infamous fuel sample port is on the supply side (before the pump) not on the pressure side to the carb and also uses -6 fittings. i can send pics if you want.
Jay Ivey suggested the Carter pump to me in the first place so I assume his thinking has changed. I haven't yet had time to completely diagnose the problem but I did change carbs before the event. Jay suggested cleaning the original one and putting it back on. Perhaps that's the problem. I hope to be able to test it before the next race but I'll check electrical system thoroughly first.
Brad
Well Garey, you didn't tell us THAT until now. The pump is only as good as the FILTERED fuel going into it. The old pumps used to have a filter that could be cleaned, soon Ford was better off selling you a new pump and it disappeared, but the root of the problem may well lie in the bottome of the cell. Fit a new hose and a Fuel Safe sock on the end of it.
After talking to Jay, I think his comment was something like "The mechanical pump works fine, If you have to put an electric pump on I recommend the Carter"
Ford Pinto 1600. May take some time as most of the kids working the counter wouldn't have been around then!
So I guess roll-over switches are not interesting to those with electric pumps?
Street cars have been mandated to have them for quite a while I believe.
I've never taken the time to do it but I'm not sure there should not be a rule.
BTW, DB6's have to have electric unless you want to notch the frame
OK, I don't really need to have an electric fuel pump but if I wanted to have a spare mechanical unit, what's the application?
Everytime I try to get parts around here, they ask me what kind of car it's on. If I say Ford Cortina, they look at me with blank stares and can't find anything.
Brad
You know Rich you bring up a very interesting point. Cars fitted with an electric pump should have some sort of cut off. In most street cars this is done with an inertia switch which breaks contact upon impact. I never really thougt of it, but I'm going to mention it to MoTech if they do the progaming for the new FM. In fact the more I think about it, all cars that have an electronic system should be required to have this....hmmm. Wonder if Ent has thought of this?
Yeah, I had the same thoughts when Rick Johnson mentioned it above. I wasn't trying to get that extra .2598748 HP to be gained by removing the mechanical unit, just trying to figure out why my engine was stuttering, then seemed to be so far down on power. Could be fuel delivery (it improved after cleaning the fuel filter) but it also could be electrical.
Dependability and safety are key for me at the level I'm at. Later, I'll look for the .04 seconds I'm loosing each lap due to these types of inefficiencies.
Brad
I'll give you another reason to stay mechanical. My wife's 1600 sports racer, identical engine, ignition, etc. as my Titan FF but she had an electric fuel pump (legacy of a prior bigger motor). For a couple of years we couldn't figure out why keeping her battery charged over the weekend was such an incredible pain. Replaced batteries, etc. Duh! Went back to mechanical. Everything fine.
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