Pinto Building - Pan and Windage

[BeerBudgetRacing]

So, as I'm rebuilding my motor I'm addressing every thing I can.
In addition to sending my pump in for a rebuild, I sent the following picture to Doug at TDC asking if there are any updates to the pan or windage tray.

This is the way it was when I pulled it off the motor:

Attachment 86921

First thing Doug said was that I at least needed to add washers under the windage tray so that the oil in the bottom of the pan under the crank can fall into the sump.
I won't include what I said to myself at that point. Of course he's right. I can imaging the crank pounding against a puddle of oil that simple can't drain off.

This is exactly why I asked and also why I'm posting this. I assume the previous owner/last builder of the motor made certain assumptions when assembling the tray.

At first look, and I'd have assumed as well, it looks like the windage tray fits into the groove/step that is there. Done. That's what it looks like.

Attachment 86922

Lesson: No assembly is a given. Question everything.

So, if I add a few washers under, it creates a gap for the oil to fall into the sump. This is the fix. I don't know if newer versions of the pan are different.

Attachment 86923

So, that is an option. And it made me start thinking about the life of oil in that pan/sump.

Oil is being flung up and over the tray and down to the sump. If I use the washers the oil is also being flung through the gap and colliding with the oil splashing up the wall of the sump. That creates a turbulent area where the scavange ports are trying to get the oil out..

It made me think that perhaps the windage tray I have is not original. Perhaps there were slots in it. Oil could drain but would still collide with oil splashing up the wall.
Would cutting slots or making flaps allow the oil to settle better?

Attachment 86924

Or perhaps adding a flat(ish) piece under the washers. This allows the oil draining from the bottom to meet the oil falling down the back side and combine as it falls into the sump. The flat piece would also prevent oil from splashing up. Maybe better?

I tried to draw a section of the sump to illustrate what I'm thinking.

Attachment 86925

Is this overthinking? Am I over estimating the activity of the oil? I've heard that its moving at 300+mph in the pan.

Thoughts? Any other suggestions? Or just add washer and close it up ?

[jrh3]

Always nice to have another variable . Do you have a crankshaft scraper?

[BeerBudgetRacing]

Always nice to have another variable . Do you have a crankshaft scraper?

Yep - so that drops the oil onto the windage tray downward, while other oil is trying to climb the tray to get over the edge and fall into the sump.

Its a hurricane in there!

[Rick Kirchner]

Art Smith did some really elaborate windage and scraper designs for a similar pan.

Was this the motor in the car? I've never seen an aluminum pan that clears the rear frame step in the 90-96 Van Diemens. I have an aluminum pan but it needs to be modified in a number of ways to fit.

[jrh3]

I bet if Art built it the bolts would be safety wired. Tremendous attention to detail.

[Art Smith]

the first attached picture shows the last 2-liter Pinto pan I made; the 1600 Kent pans are a little further along. the windage management component is made from expanded stainless steel mesh material (ie: one way) secured on both sides and the bottom with stainless "spacer" washers, stainless fasteners, sealing washers, and stainless nylock nuts. depending on which rods you're using AND how thick your "spacers" are, you might have to relief the windage management component locally for dynamic radial rod clearance. the inside of the dry sump pan was coated with a petrophobic coating to accelerate oil migration. among other things, the windage management screen in the latest 1600 Kent pan was also coated.......

the second picture shows a three element scraper set for a 1600 Kent. with the pan upgraded, the next logical place to invest TLC (aka: sweat equity) for improved windage management is in the scraper or scrapers, plural. 0.020" or 0.030" stainless steel should be adequate. access to a pneumatic nibbler and threaded center transfer points is extremely helpful ! you're looking for tight clearance holes for the pan fasteners; NO wiggle or slop; deterministic installation that yields the required clearances without diddling!! fore/aft clearance is your expected end of life (EOL) fore/aft thrust bearing clearance plus 0.005" to 0.010". radial clearance should be in the neighborhood of 0.060" to accommodate rod stretch at top end and/or missed shifts. surface finish, no notches, AND NO sharp corners are a HUGE deal when it comes to the fabrication of your scraper(s). fatigue is the number one enemy of scrapers and the last thing you need in my view is extra bits of stainless steel circulating in your lubrication system!! first time out, expect to make two or three scrapers before you have one that meats your fancy............... note the use of all metal jet nuts to secure the inboard scrapers to the ARP studs above/below the ARP high strength nuts that secure the mains; the mains wouldn't last long with "soft" stainless in the load path..



Art
artesmith@earthlink.net

[CGOffroad]

Does anyone have a part number, or location to purchase the coiled wire that should go inside the hose on scavenge lines to pump, and suction line to pump from tank?

[Art Smith]

Does anyone have a part number, or location to purchase the coiled wire that should go inside the hose on scavenge lines to pump, and suction line to pump from tank?

XRP

Art
artesmith@earthlink.net

[BeerBudgetRacing]

Does anyone have a part number, or location to purchase the coiled wire that should go inside the hose on scavenge lines to pump, and suction line to pump from tank?

Take yer pick:
https://www.summitracing.com/search/...upport-springs

Oh, and the blue reinforced hose is really good for suction. I bought a box and just replace them every time I remove one for any reason - new hose.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/a...1020/overview/

[BeerBudgetRacing]

Art Smith did some really elaborate windage and scraper designs for a similar pan.

Was this the motor in the car? I've never seen an aluminum pan that clears the rear frame step in the 90-96 Van Diemens. I have an aluminum pan but it needs to be modified in a number of ways to fit.

Yep - motor in the car. The back of my frame as a cut-out - which seems to be for my other engine/pan combo.

But this one (TDC) clears fine.

[marshall9]

Does anyone have a part number, or location to purchase the coiled wire that should go inside the hose on scavenge lines to pump, and suction line to pump from tank?

Yes, text me

[Rick Iverson]

I've never seen an aluminum pan that clears the rear frame step in the 90-96 Van Diemens. I have an aluminum pan but it needs to be modified in a number of ways to fit.

Rick, I have aTDC pan, but need to check a few things. There is the factory aft notch in the casting, but need to be sure on this before installing. Firstly, what mods are needed, and secondly, what is the length of the sump from the front to the rear notch out?

V/r

Iverson