My engine builder reports that the new upgrade pistons and connecting rods are delaying my rebuild. Looks like I'm going to miss my first event this year.
Does anyne know when this parts shortage is likely to clear up?
Pinto Upgrade Parts Shortage
My engine builder reports that the new upgrade pistons and connecting rods are delaying my rebuild. Looks like I'm going to miss my first event this year.
Does anyne know when this parts shortage is likely to clear up?
Looking at suppliers for the rods (off the shelf):Originally Posted by douglap1
no shipping until 3/29
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/CRO-SP93235B-4
https://www.crower.com/sportsman-cro...shed-6716.html
I believe you cannot buy the pistons direct from Wiseco.
Are the Crowers the only rods allowed?
Big markup from Crower to Summit.
I've been told I may have quoted the wrong part number.
I pulled it from this quote:
https://www.apexspeed.com/forums/sho...l=1#post559766
which indicates SP93235B-4
Yep. Specific rod and specific piston.
If you call summit and show them the price online somewhere else, they will match it.
Good to know!
So, I've been told (from good authority) that the P/Ns quoted in the GCR are WRONG and will be updated.
The piston, rings, pins and rods are only available through QS. All custom p/n. Nothing available via other suppliers.
Apply your own supply and demand logic as to the shortage.
2.0 upgrade
Any idea the cost of the kit pistons and rods?
I questioned Quicksilver on cost a little less than a year ago. The response:
I can provide the pistons rods rings and pins for $1250.00 plus shipping. Rod bearings (not fitted) will be another $100.00. I have 3 sets of pistons and rods on order due in in 4 weeks. They will be sold first come first serve and I will reorder when they are gone.
Typical SCCA BS. Take a good idea and screw it up with another sweetheart deal. It's not that the cost is way out of line, it's just that here's another unintended consequence of bad decision-making.
Thanks for the info guys. Now I'm even more anxious about when this can get resolved. I checked Summit, and they are now showing 4/1 for shipment date, so it looks like they are just sliding it out continuouusly for now. Perhaps my builder is buying from QS, but they have to service their own direct customers. Looks like I'm screwed...
That is crazy. I bought the Crower Rod, Wiseco Pistons (Not running in the FC class....so it isn't the
"spec" piston....but I bet its pretty close!), and Rings for 1K, and that was full retail. And there was no machining necessary!
How much are they making putting a shipping label on these?
Before or after the scca kickback?
SCCA receives no "kick back" or other compensation on sourced parts. The FSRAC and CRB have been alerted to a change in part numbers and an E&O should be forthcoming to update the GCR accordingly.
Best Regards,
John
Well whatever parts you bought are no longer going to be legal. Make sure you keep an old GCR with the parts you bought.
And the new part numbers will be exclusive, single source. This 'upgrade' that now requires custom parts, while an upgrade to the engine, is not going to have any improvement effect on the class.
I think there are others like me. We wanted an off the shelf 'upgrade'. Something like 'any rod/piston combination with a minimum weight'. Walsh, RaceEng, Burton, etc. can all supply these. We don't like to see single source because we know it costs more.
Reality check: The vendor isn't raking in big profits from this.
This situation sees a vendor, now obligated as a single source, trying to (understandably) minimize exposure by stocking no more than a few sets at a time (which raises manufacturing cost).
Again, what's broken is the process. Someone at the FSRAC or CRB didn't stand up and say "if we're going to approve this then logic dictates we should allow any rod up to 5.7in with a minimum piston/pin weight the same and a minimum total weight the same". No, they can't be logical. That is what makes their decisions appear to award monopoly deals.
I bought a Weber 38 (from the vendor of my choice) and sent it to be race prepped (by the shop of my choice) as soon as they were approved.
I have not bought the new piston/rod combo even though I had my bottom end apart last summer.
No one is resurrecting a car from storage over this rule.
The fact of the matter is that the FSRAC wasn't looking to write a new rule on this. As with most changes, this came at the request of the membership. As I recall the long rod and carb proposal was made by Quicksilver and the FSRAC reviewed and approved same based upon appropriate data after it was submitted. There is nothing that prevents you or anyone else from doing the same thing. You can certainly reach out to the FSRAC if you would like to discuss the matter further; David Locke is the Chairman. As you note, no one is getting rich on this stuff.
John
When you look at comparable quality parts the QS price for 4 rods, 4 pistons , 4 pins and 4 ring sets all race ready of $1250 is pretty darn cheap for what you are getting. Anyone price quality rod bearings lately another great price. Quit whining and either pony up for the long rods or keep what you have.
Try to beat those prices from other vendors.
They could have certainly used the opportunity to apply reasonable logic. They had numbers and specs and could reasonable deduce that a Pinto with long rods wasn't going to take over the world.
The rumor was that a racer already built a motor with long rods (and had been running it for years) and decided to document and submit during this rebuild to make it legal.
Let me put my broken record on the turntable.
As I've argued to the CRB in the past, most Pinto owners do not have the backing ($$) to experiment and throw $2500+ at parts and dyno testing for consideration. They aren't happy with past CRB responses and do not expect a positive experience.
There is NO dilution of building Zetec beaters with these old cars. We're looking to reduce cost (increased life) and options to source parts. But in this case we've done the narrow focus, tunnel vision, spec part, single source thing - again.
First, this thread started because they an unobtainium right now. Someone isn't racing because they can't get the parts.
I never said they we're over priced. In fact I said QS isn't making a bunch of money off it.
I'd argue that the spec parts, only available though QS puts an overhead/management burden on them because they now have to deal with every other builder and their customers. Then there is the overhead of dealing with Crower and Wiseco to spec and supply the parts.
I'll keep what I have until they need to be replaced.
Pinto Engine
How does SCCA work do the Licensed drivers has any say (vote) when it comes to rule changes in SCCA or is it only the ones connected to the Executive that are able to make changes. We just seen this happen with the Honda getting 10 over bore pushed threw totally blind siding everyone. Maybe it's time for drivers to step up and demand a fear process or be boycott. The long rod kit is a prime example of how floored the rules are single suppler who doesn't stock the parts and the worst part a STD bore making you have to resleeve. Why wouldn't they have included the 5 over bore it wouldn't add anymore HP what it has done has made it a very expensive update $2500-3000 just in parts and machining for the kit to be installed not icluding the actual rebuild cost when you could have achieved a performance improvement by allowing the exact same flywheel the Z-Tec runs for around $4-500.
I just want a long running reliable motor.
Back to my original question: Does anyone know when the new spec parts will be available again?
If it takes too long, I may have to buy a spare motor that is available. I understand the heated opinions, but this is not a political question.
Thanks for any info.
Pinto Engine
If you want an answer you should be calling Quicksilver he is the only one that can answer you question because he is the sole supplier. If he doesn't already have a order in to the manufacturers you can count on 4-6 weeks is what said to me.
Understood - thanks for the clarity.
Same thing is happening with Formula Ford pistons/parts. Egregious pricing for pistons and many other related parts. It's hard to justify paying a single source vendor $168.50 for one piston (reported manufacturer's cost $82.00) when by comparison you can buy eight forged JE pistons for a small block Chevy retail for $566.00 from Jegs. It's time for racers to reject cartel like deals that are probably a violation of the Sherman Anti Trust Act.
Chevy Ford and Mopar V8 parts are always cheap because there is a huge market for them compared to our obsolete ( At least to those who don't race them) engines.
Think about how many local drag and circle track racers and street hot rodders buy them. Then think about ow many guys buy Pinto or Kent pistons.
Our stuff is almost special run to the manufacturers.
Sorry for the old thread revival (not really old compared to some)
So, in section 9.1.1.15 (f) the GCR quotes Wiseco WD07253 and Crower SP93221.
It still quotes the WRONG numbers in 9.1.1.15 (h) (Wiseco WD06526 and Crower SP93235)
Since I can't find any info on the (f) pistons and rods, does anyone know if it is B(ushed) or PF PressFit ?
And the PIN size on those?
Does the choice affect availability? I'd assume (maybe incorrectly) that the piston can do either.
SP 93235B are available Crower online. Bushed, std size pin.
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