The Scott Tucker saga continues...

[marshall9]

What did they do that was illegal?

Problem with some people's thinking is that everything bad that happens to them is someone else's fault. No one forced people to buy houses they couldn't afford or take out extremely high interest payday loans.
I would advocate for mandatory education of some kind before allowing mortgages or any loan, at least a video or something. Then a waiver that the borrowers understand what they are getting into. Of course, the lender will still be blamed upon default, poor borrower shouldn't be given a loan. In this day and age, even then , some would expect a bailout, and it's not just individuals i.e. Chrysler Corpiration 2008. The very ones that despise too big to fail, embrace too small to fail. (Themselves). How far are we away from participation trophies in racing? No one wins. The track shouldn't have put that wall there, and I wouldn't have crashed my car, instead of I made an error while driving.

[mmi16]

Not everybody was delinquent pay day loan borrowers.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/pers...ykx?li=BBnbfcN

[Daryl DeArman]

Problem with some people's thinking is that everything bad that happens to them is someone else's fault. No one forced people to buy houses they couldn't afford or take out extremely high interest payday loans.
I would advocate for mandatory education of some kind before allowing mortgages or any loan, at least a video or something. Then a waiver that the borrowers understand what they are getting into. Of course, the lender will still be blamed upon default, poor borrower shouldn't be given a loan. In this day and age, even then , some would expect a bailout, and it's not just individuals i.e. Chrysler Corpiration 2008. The very ones that despise too big to fail, embrace too small to fail. (Themselves). How far are we away from participation trophies in racing? No one wins. The track shouldn't have put that wall there, and I wouldn't have crashed my car, instead of I made an error while driving.

That about sums it up.

It's as though all the EBT money, section 8 housing, reduced utilities, free healthcare, and the free bus passes are going to the middle class. Forty-five million people live below the poverty level in the USA, 52.2 million are getting one or more forms of "means-tested government assistance". Yet, I say a "poor person is likely to receive. . ." and I'm the troll who generalizes. I didn't say they all get, or even the vast majority get all these benefits. All someone has to do is look up the definition of likely and have some basic math knowledge to know. Then again, maybe we just have a different definition of the word poor.

[Daryl DeArman]

Not everybody was delinquent pay day loan borrowers.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/pers...ykx?li=BBnbfcN

Of course not. I never said they were. I said the type of folks who would go get a payday loan have an established pattern of defaulting. If they didn't, they wouldn't resort to borrowing money at such an exorbitant interest rate. They would have other, much better, options.

[BeerBudgetRacing]

Problem with some people's thinking is that everything bad that happens to them is someone else's fault. No one forced people to buy houses they couldn't afford or take out extremely high interest payday loans.
I would advocate for mandatory education of some kind before allowing mortgages or any loan, at least a video or something. Then a waiver that the borrowers understand what they are getting into. Of course, the lender will still be blamed upon default, poor borrower shouldn't be given a loan.

In the 1990's I had a mortgage brokerage business. Did very well. We made 'hard money' loans as well - equity secured loans where you do not qualify the borrower. Short term, interest only type. They do have a purpose and I learned a lot about borrowers. Some people do get themselves into situations where they are forced to borrower.

In 93 and 94 housing started to 'decline' a bit. Federal first time buyer programs (105% LTV) had a whole set of rules and education requirements. Lenders had to hold seminars to educate buyers. There were even tests. That lasted less than a year.
It was determined to be discriminatory and the industry wasn't getting people in homes fast enough.
They kept the 105% LTV, dumped the education, and used alternative means to qualify buyers.
This was the beginning of the funny loans, funny paper, greedy borrowers, lenders and bankers.
Derivative mortgage securities had always been around, they just became over valued.
This is what became the housing crisis 12 years later.

[mmi16]

Of course not. I never said they were. I said the type of folks who would go get a payday loan have an established pattern of defaulting. If they didn't, they wouldn't resort to borrowing money at such an exorbitant interest rate. They would have other, much better, options.

Get your name on the wrong internet 'phishing list' and the next thing you know Scott and/or his cronies are trying to knock down your door form payment for a loan you never took out.

[mmi16]

In the 1990's I had a mortgage brokerage business. Did very well. We made 'hard money' loans as well - equity secured loans where you do not qualify the borrower. Short term, interest only type. They do have a purpose and I learned a lot about borrowers. Some people do get themselves into situations where they are forced to borrower.

In 93 and 94 housing started to 'decline' a bit. Federal first time buyer programs (105% LTV) had a whole set of rules and education requirements. Lenders had to hold seminars to educate buyers. There were even tests. That lasted less than a year.
It was determined to be discriminatory and the industry wasn't getting people in homes fast enough.
They kept the 105% LTV, dumped the education, and used alternative means to qualify buyers.
This was the beginning of the funny loans, funny paper, greedy borrowers, lenders and bankers.
Derivative mortgage securities had always been around, they just became over valued.
This is what became the housing crisis 12 years later.

Nothing quite like gilt edge securities backed by defaulting mortgage loans to trick the best and brightest out of Billion$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.

[BeerBudgetRacing]

Nothing quite like gilt edge securities backed by defaulting mortgage loans to trick the best and brightest out of Billion$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.

They don't have to trick the best and brightest.

The 401k is what keeps working folks poor. Corporate MBAs decided in the 70s that providing retirement to employees was too costly. So now, instead of experts managing a corporate retirement plan, we have every guy with a paycheck sending their money to wallstreet every couple of weeks.

The experts are now figuring out ways to get it away from us and collect fees churning investments.
We don't have the time to manage investments expertly.

If you look at the history of the dow, for the first 50 years it never reach 2000. In less than 40 years (since the intro of the 401k) it has ballooned more than 20k. It's because we're all grappling for returns with very few secure investment places. Everything is over valued because of demand.

When it hits the fan again, we'll be the ones tarred and feathered. The experts will have cashed out and flipped the switch on us.

[Jon Jeffords]

The experts will have cashed out and flipped the switch on us.

The greed on Wall Street is infinite. Its not enough for them to make money while blowing the bubble; they will short the situation (or bring Hank Paulson out of retirement) so that they make even more money on the way down.

[Daryl DeArman]

The greed on Wall Street is infinite. Its not enough for them to make money while blowing the bubble; they will short the situation (or bring Hank Paulson out of retirement) so that they make even more money on the way down.

Who's this us/them? Why can't we make money while the bubble is being blown and short our own stocks? Is there some rule I am unaware of keeping us from doing the same?

[marshall9]

Who's this us/them? Why can't we make money while the bubble is being blown and short our own stocks? Is there some rule I am unaware of keeping us from doing the same?

None that I am aware of. Why do we need to protect people from themselves financially?

If you post an FA for sale, and I buy it, not knowing that it likely takes the purchase price and then some to run it annually, after a season, am I entitled to return it for a refund plus operating costs?

[BeerBudgetRacing]

Who's this us/them? Why can't we make money while the bubble is being blown and short our own stocks? Is there some rule I am unaware of keeping us from doing the same?

Them are those that control the information. 90% of the advice you hear as an investor is already worthless. 'Them' have already acted on it and are now getting you to substantiate what they have already done. They will make big money for a client here and there so the client will follow their advice.

Do you study the market 10-15 hours a day? 'Them' do.

I forget who said it but it was something like 'It's easier to take a dollar from a million investors than take a million dollars from one investor'. The million investors don't notice and are powerless. The one investor notices and is powerful.

[Jon Jeffords]

Who's this us/them? Why can't we make money while the bubble is being blown and short our own stocks? Is there some rule I am unaware of keeping us from doing the same?

Sorry Daryl. To quote George Carlin: "It's a big club, and you ain't in it!".

Here's some mandatory viewing to get you started: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i5dBZDSSky0

After that, read the works of Matt Taibbi and Karl Denninger (The Market Ticker), and check in daily at zerohedge.com.

Wall Street truly is too big to fail. 'Rule of Law' no longer applies to them. If they are caught in a fraudulent act that profited them $10 million dollars, they are fined $1 million, and nobody goes to jail.

My favorite t-shirts reads: "When the poop hits the fan, I will be inviting Wall Street employees to my house for dinner. Not to join me for dinner, but to BE dinner."

[Daryl DeArman]

None that I am aware of. Why do we need to protect people from themselves financially?

We don't. My post was tongue-in-cheek.

If you post an FA for sale, and I buy it, not knowing that it likely takes the purchase price and then some to run it annually, after a season, am I entitled to return it for a refund plus operating costs?

Certainly. My bad for not making you sign and have notarized a 120 page contract with all types of disclosures.

[Daryl DeArman]

Do you study the market 10-15 hours a day? 'Them' do.

Which is why I don't try to beat the market, and just invest in funds with an established history of good returns and low expense ratios. Let those who study the market 10-15 hours a day decide how best to apportion the funds' funds.

[Daryl DeArman]

Sorry Daryl. To quote George Carlin: "It's a big club, and you ain't in it!".

You're right, but we are probably thinking of two different clubs. I've never belonged to either the "I am the victim" nor the "rich are greedy evil bastards" club.

[R. Pare]

And now he has been indicted on tax fraud as well:

http://www.kansascity.com/news/busin...190856279.html

[David Locke]

And now he has been indicted on tax fraud as well:

http://www.kansascity.com/news/busin...190856279.html

And the hits just keep on comin'.

This guy is going away for a long time, even taking into account the 85 percent rule. Depending on his health, he may never leave Club Fed.

[marc sproule]

And now he has been indicted on tax fraud as well:

http://www.kansascity.com/news/busin...190856279.html

i tail to see what the big deal is.

he only failed to report $75m in income.

chump change

[John Nesbitt]

http://www.kansascity.com/news/busin...193241289.html

[Eric Little]

http://www.kansascity.com/news/busin...193241289.html

Welllll.... at least he seems appropriately repentant:

“Although I saw myself as being an entrepreneur, a jobs provider, and a contributor to the American economy, I’ve learned that others view me through a different lens,” Tucker wrote. “I am very sorry that our leaders castigate me as a villain, or some type of predator.”

See, he is sorry. Sure it is sorry that others view him poorly but... well... he did say he was sorry.

Plus, maybe he can consult with Bernie Madoff while he is locked up and then just wait to see what he can accomplish in 16 years and 8 months.

Eric Little

[LenFC11]

On Netflix is a documentary series called Dirty Money.. Scott Tucker story is episode 2 ... Real nice guy...

[marchsv]

After watching Dirty Money episode, posting here on Apex, dinner with a driver interviews. I think there is no punishment suitable for the harm he has caused!

[LenFC11]

Agree..
I found it particularly upsetting how he played the victim.. complaining how he was treated unfairly and taken advantage of.. how his life was ruined... Never once showed any symphony for the those he took advantage of.. standing behind his online forms where industry standard.. he created the industry.. the confusing forms which helped him steel from people..

then came to our sport with his dirty money..

[BorkRacing]

http://www.kansascity.com/news/busin...193241289.html

With good behavior, drug rehab participation, halfway house program and a few other programs he may serve half the 16 years.

[David Locke]

With good behavior, drug rehab participation, halfway house program and a few other programs he may serve half the 16 years.

In federal prison, an inmate can earn only about 47 days per year for good behavior after the first year of incarceration, and, in practice, the most time any inmate can get in a halfway house is 12 months.

[David Locke]

It's a long way from Aspen to Englewood . . .

[Lynn]

The new place is much larger and has better security.

[David Locke]

The new place is much larger and has better security.

but it's lacking in egress.

[mmi16]

Tuckers 'enterprise' has US Bank being fined for money laundering

https://www.usatoday.com/story/money...ols/340632002/

[Jon Jeffords]

"The settlement with federal prosecutors includes a two-year non-prosecution agreement on two felony violations of the U.S. Bank Secrecy Act. If the bank satisfactorily completes efforts to strengthen its anti-money laundering oversight, the federal government will seek dismissal of the charges."

So effing tired of banks getting miniscule fines for felony violations, and no one goes to jail.

[Lynn]

The fine is slightly more than 10% of USBank's 2016 net profit. I doubt they think the fine is miniscule.

[Jon Jeffords]

"U.S. Bancorp, with 74,000 employees and $462 billion in assets as of Dec. 31, 2017, is the parent company of U.S. Bank, the fifth-largest bank in the United States." http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix....cle&ID=2332792

I don't know about you Lynn, but I have absolutely no faith in bank accounting (aka "mark to fantasy"), but one calculation is as follows:

613 million dollar fine divided by 462 billion dollars in assets x 100 = 0.13%. I call this "miniscule", while bankers call it "cost of doing business."

[EACIII]

You are confusing Assets vs Profits. Two totally different things. Would you like the bank to turn over all the money people have in savings accounts over to the Feds? Or maybe your house they hold the morgage on? That is what assets is, nothing to do with profits

[Jon Jeffords]

No confusion on my part; as I said its just one calculation. Knowing how intentionally cooked the banker's books are, I only committed thirty seconds of my time to google and a calculator.

[T-Tom]

That's still the issue. They make all the rules (Lobbing our lawmakers?) and set policy but aren't responsible? Someone(s) need to put in some hard time.

[Jon Jeffords]

Someone(s) need to put in some hard time.

Never gonna happen. Best book title ever:

“The Chickensh*t Club: Why the Justice Department Fails to Prosecute Executives” (Simon & Schuster) by Jesse Eisinger.

Good read: https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/07/31/why-corrupt-bankers-avoid-jail

[mmi16]

Never gonna happen. Best book title ever:

“The Chickensh*t Club: Why the Justice Department Fails to Prosecute Executives” (Simon & Schuster) by Jesse Eisinger.

Good read: https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/07/31/why-corrupt-bankers-avoid-jail

Is it possible Mueller and his investigation might bag a few?

[R. Pare]

And Tucker's 1.3 billion payback fine has been upheld by the court:

https://www.foxnews.com/auto/racecar...yday-loan-suit

Couldn't have happened to a nicer guy....................................

[reidhazelton]

Check out Netflix's 'Dirty Money' series to see what an out of touch, predatory narcissist this guy is. I hope he is is jail a good long time.