2020 Runoffs @ Road America
The 2020 Runoffs have been scheduled Oct. 5-11 at Road America. The first full week of October in Central Wisconsin, what could possible upset the apple cart? Weather maybe?
I seem to recall several 'miserable weather' Runoffs when they were held in October at Mid-Ohio, with Mid-Ohio being several hundred miles further South than Road America.
What could possibly go wrong!
Those that deny history are bound to repeat it!
All part of SCCA's grand plan to destroy Road RacingOriginally Posted by mmi16
Yes, what could possibly go wrong?
Bill Bonow
"Wait, which one is the gas pedal again?"
Hey, I went to the Summit Point Rain/Sleet/Snow drivers school in 2014. We'll drive in anything...
Drivers schools are not considered SCCA's PREMIERE event - the Runoff's are.
Guess I should have added - /snark
Mr. Bonow would understand
Bring a sweatshirt. You'll be fine.
Here is historical weather data for that week (click the arrow to the left after the links load to get to early October):
2017; https://www.timeanddate.com/weather/...h=10&year=2017
2016; https://www.timeanddate.com/weather/...h=10&year=2016
2015; https://www.timeanddate.com/weather/...h=10&year=2015
2014; https://www.timeanddate.com/weather/...h=10&year=2014
Being unlucky enough to be in a group that runs before noon will be interesting. Better invest in a set of tire warmers.
I understand Summit Point and horrible weather Drivers Schools - I participated in one.
The weather was never show-stopping in the last RA Runoffs stint, and most or all of them were in October. I do remember overnights when we were worried about radiators freezing (but didn't happen). I'm just surprised that we've run out of other marquee tracks to bring The Show to already...?
Dale V.
Lake Effect Motorsports
FM
Spartan VP-2/Mazda
The dates were:
- Sept. 21-27, 2009
- Sept. 20-26, 2010
- Sept. 19-25, 2011
- Sept. 17-23, 2012
- Sept. 16-22, 2013
Oh.
Well I'm sure we'll be fine. Maybe. Usually there's no snow yet.
Dale V.
Lake Effect Motorsports
FM
Spartan VP-2/Mazda
Two week difference in the North Woods can be significant. Most of the early mornings with the September dates were already in the upper 30's and low 40's.
Well seeing as how I live here. It always rains and we jokingly call it MudAmerica. I'ts a joke having it here as it's miserable that time of year.
Lets stop playing titleywinks and get back to what worked; Road Atlanta! (ok Doc lets put the dip back in) Ever since we left that's what we are trying to duplicate, and you can't because there's only on place for the Runoffs!
bill gillespie, BLS, E1pix, kea, M.Sauce
Honestly the weather could be perfectly fine. Last year later in the month we had 80 and 90s at the race at blackhawk farms not to far away.
Sadly they had to go with a date this late to not conflict with the Ryder Cup which will be at Kohler I believe. With that going on the chances of being able to get hotel rooms and other accommodations in the area was going to be extremely difficult and very very expensive.
I am excited that the RunOffs are coming back to Road America, yet this happening has completely screwed up my whole plan for being behind the wheel and racing. I have been building a Gen 2 SRF as people have been giving away the engines and I was given a frame for free. We still had a good size field of Gen 2 in Cendiv and I did pretty good with a car that was loaned to me for drivers school and another race day. Now with this news the question has been how many are we losing that will convert to Gen 3, I already know of a few.
I had no desire or plan to run RunOffs in the future as it just seemed out of reach. Now with it being at my home track, a track that I grew up at and the place where the majority of my dads ashes are, I think I am going to see if I can give it a shot!
Chris Buccola track brat since 1986.
Chicago Region- Corner Worker
Spec Racer Ford Gen 2 #38
Road America 2020 Runoffs
Really into October is not so good. I for one will spend 80% annual budget going to the Runoffs but maybe not if it is in October.I have been there many times in September and the weather was inconsistent. When you move 2 weeks closer to winter you are asking for bad weather for racing. I may change have to reconsider.
when and where?
I love Road America,......but.....
IT IS TO COLD IN OCTOBER TO RACE AT ROAD AMERICA! Early to mid September is usually ok......but this opens up my primary concerns about the runoffs.
Moving the runoffs every year only works till we run out of "bucket list tracks".....and I think we have reached that point.
The only way for the runoffs to become a major event again (yes it once was) is to leave it in one place long enough for the local population and news people to realize it is there......then after awhile the word will spread.
If you had the Indy 500.....or the 24 hours of Daytona.......or the Daytona 500 at a different track every year , they would not be the major events that they are. The runoffs is no different.
My first runoffs as a driver was 1969 at Daytona. At that time it was alternating between Daytona and Riverside. IT DID NOT WORK........not many made the trip to the opposite coast....so it was moved to Atlanta......where it stayed for (I think) 19 years. The first couple years it was not a big event......but after 5 or 6 years the locals stated coming out to spectate.....and the local news media started to pay attention. After about 10 years the national news people actually started to pay attention. At year 15 every news guy in the country knew what it was......and it was a big deal! We actually got national news coverage! Everyone seemed to know about it.
These days, no one outside our small circle has a clue what the Runoffs is. People and businesses around the actual runoffs event don't even know there is a race going on. It was very obvious at Daytona in 15 and Laguna in 14. Mid ohio was a bit better.in 16....cause the locals are a bit more tuned in to their track......but even there it was a far cry from the Atlanta days.
Like Mid Ohio, the locals around Road America pay a bit more attention to their track...so it will get some spectators and some local press.....but not what it would be it it was at the same track for years.
For years, I have said we should have the runoffs in southern Texas. It is equidistant from either coast.....and quite a drive from the upper mid west.......so pretty fair in that respect.
Being that far south, we could have the runoffs in November ......which would allow us to extend our race season. Currently, we have to stop in August. That seems dumb to me.
The so called "home track advantage" that some people seem to worry about goes away after a couple of years.....so I don't buy that argument.
Jerry Hodges
JDR Race Cars
Scca member since 1966
So, does anyone have "fan" attendance figures? Maybe I'm wrong but I think the idea of local population attending races and that it has any bearing and comparing the runoffs to the Indy 500 is delusionary. Only friends and family attend.
The idea that the runoffs will ever become a major event again is directly dependent on participation in amateur racing, not the event location. Don't worry about the runoffs, get more people driving regionally.
Bucket list tracks is also only part of the moving runoffs. Geographic participation is a big reason. Some people get the opportunity every 4 years. Between cost and time they just do not have the option to spend 2 weeks on the road.
Maybe the solution is to NOT have the runoffs every year. Maybe every 4 like the Olympics.
Geographic location, based on equidistant travel is an ideal that is not relevant to any business logic. Using the latest US Census data, just nine states — California, Texas, Illinois, Michigan, Ohio, Pennsylvania, New York, Georgia and Florida — account for half of the entire US population. By having the Runoffs on the West coast every three years, you are disenfranchising half of your total market. For Sonoma, most classes have less than 20% of entries from east of the Rockies. A track in Ohio or SE Pennsylvania or West Virginia will keep the largest population within a day's drive of the track. Virgina, Georgia, Indiana, and Illinois would be next best. This is assuming that you want it to be anything more than a festival event that virtually anybody can attend with token participation.
The Runoffs, like SCCA in general, has so many problems that it cannot be fixed without blowing it up, and starting over. As long as people keep spending gobs of money attending while receiving minimal value, nothing will change. Much like membership income to the club, entry fee income to the Runoffs, is the only number that matters to the people making the decisions.
Last edited by problemchild; 10.03.18 at 4:43 PM.
Greg Rice, RICERACEPREP.com
F1600 Arrive-N-Drive for FRP and SCCA, FC SCCA also. Including Runoffs
2020 & 2022 F1600 Champion, 2020 SCCA FF Champion, 2021 SCCA FC Champion,
2016 F2000 Champion, Follow RiceRacePrep on Instagram.
Before they consider which track to have the event at they need to consider getting rid of that outdated format they are using. I can understand it back in the days when they had television.
These days it makes no sense to require people to commit to being there an entire week......most of it just sitting around in wasted downtime.... It's just dumb. Jamming everyone in the venue at the same time is what leads to overcrowding, lack of parking, lack of access, pit bull security enforcement......people get pushy, people get bossy, etc...and all of it completely unnecessary if they only structured it right.
Stagger the event. Half the groups qualify and race in Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, the latter half Thursday, Friday, Saturday. After the first half have left the track there's plenty of room for the second half to move into those empty paddock areas without the pushing and shoving that goes on when they try and cram everyone in a confined space at one time. They could even extend the event an extra day if they need to add new classes (rather than try and eliminate existing classes to make room for those new classes).
It just doesn't seem, to me anyway, like it's that hard of a thing to implement.
They should also consider a 3 year run at Indy. Even though I think the track layout itself is boring the place has status.
Why are they so reluctant to change the format?
Firman F1000
While I agree with a lot of what you say, it's out West every 4 years (not 3), and to get half the entries of last year so far out west where nobody races (or matters because more people race in the east) is actually pretty good. And 20% participation from people east of the Rockies is really good. Western participation the other 3 years is very low because most people can't do it every year.
I find it really funny how much the eastern 1/3 of this country complains when it's out west (or even in this case planned for RA 'cause that so far west!) and what a burden and how screwed up everything is because it's not in your backyard.
So much so that you create alternate series because SCCA abandoned you. And the only suggestion ever made is to make the location more convenient for you! Uggh. It gets old.
The reality is geography is going to always be a problem. With that in mind, we should split the country into 3 or 4 sections and each do their own thing. Drivers can participate where ever they want. As many have said the runoffs is no longer a true national championship anyway. But it'll never be agreed on.
If profit from the runoffs was the only consideration they'd be held in 1 location, somewhere cheap.
"Only friends and family attend."
Can't say what the attendance would be if the event were held in the same place every year, now. But when it was in Atlanta, most of the attendance were fans from surrounding states. Lot's of fans went to Road Atlanta for the runoffs.
Thomas Copeland,
i agree and have been saying this for years. Since it is a national championship, i’m ok with 4 days. 1/2 the group is there Saturday, Sunday, Monday and Tuesday. Wednesday is move in day. The second group there Thursday thru Sunday. Cut hotel expenses in 1/2, less time away from work, less crowded, get rid of the on track once a day nonsense. I think more people will come. As for location, there are still a few tracks on most people bucket list. Watkins Glen, COTA for sure. Travel distances can’t be helped, it’s a big country.
One problem with this idea is staffing. A lot of people can't make it till later in the week these days. One of the great things about RunOffs is the worker count. Part of the reason they are able to be run the way they are is just having the numbers. Sadly these days we don't have the numbers like we used to.
Just thinking of positions at a Flag station alone, Captain, communicator, yellow flagger, blue flagger. This is also not counting positions you will have in the rotation for safety, far safety , hopefully someone gets a break each session etc. For normal weekends you can get away with 3 people, but it isn't ideal. That is also including the Captain in the rotation.
I am trying to remember what year it was for RunOffs at Road America, I was communicator for the Formula Vee race, and we had a good coming together of many cars at Canada Corner. One car ended up on its top and many others were tangled up in the line. We were able to get that all cleared off the track surface before the cars came by on the next lap. We were able to get this done a large part due to our numbers we had on station.
I know you guys don't want to be behind a pace/safety car for large portions of your race. You spend a lot of money and want to race. We also want to see racing. Races are ramped up to a different level of intensity just because they are races. I wouldn't want some of them to have lower numbers. I know there is no easy solution, I am just stating a factor maybe some haven't thought about. I would love to be able to attend the full length of RunOffs, and I know a week can wear you out, trust me on turns.....it is a long week.
Doing my drivers school this year and with the announcement I do have the crazy idea of trying to make it to the RunOffs in 2020. You can be though on days that I am not driving I will prob be flagging or on a rescue truck.
Chris Buccola track brat since 1986.
Chicago Region- Corner Worker
Spec Racer Ford Gen 2 #38
I am trying to remember what year it was for RunOffs at Road America, I was communicator for the Formula Vee race, and we had a good coming together of many cars at Canada Corner. One car ended up on its top and many others were tangled up in the line.
That was 2009. It was Dennis Andrade on his head.
Here's a link https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0JXx2Ne6YvU
Yep that was it. thanks for finding it, I knew there was a clip out there somewhere. Btw Graham it was a pleasure sharing the track with you for drivers school this year....now you just don't be recreating the video.
Here's a link [URL
Chris Buccola track brat since 1986.
Chicago Region- Corner Worker
Spec Racer Ford Gen 2 #38
Yes it was! It will be my goal not to!!
snow?
Had a message today (10/18) from a friend at RdAmer that they had snow flurries this morning :-)
But this is the end of the THIRD week of October...so no worries for 2020...
Glenn
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
