Newbie in Oregon looking for some advice/input on FM

[nweber911]

Hey guys and gals,

I have a very unique and probably insane idea, I am looking to get into a used Star Mazda or a Pro Formula Mazda to make street legal here in Oregon so I can drive to and from autocross, Hill climbs and track days as well as participate in local Mazda Club events. I have quite a few questions so I would rather find someone local who I can talk to in person. Does anyone know someone who is local to Pacific NW (Oregon/Washington) who might be willing to talk some sense into me and answer questions I have? Thank you in advance for any assistance you all can provide me!

[Purple Frog]

Yes,
For the record... you are insane.
First thing that comes to mind... the ride heights of a PFM are so low, it would make street driving impossible and damage the tub in the process. And to raise the car to accomadate the street would be a travesty.
But... what the hell. Do it, and make a youtube video, so we can all enjoy.

WTH... for the cost of trying to make it street legal you could buy an old ragged out landscape trailer and tow it with any street car to the track. Why ruin a nice machine?

The Purple Frog gray haired old timer Curmudgeon has typed his opinion.... again.

[nweber911]

Lmao, if I do in fact go though with it you have my word that I will take lots of video and share with all of you my inevitably painful experiences. I knew from the get go that ride height especially on Oregon's rough roads would present a challenge and it is one of the many reasons I want to sit down with someone local who has experience in these cars to walk me through the challenges I face even contemplating this idea. I have already done my homework in regards to making it street legal, equipment requirements and registration, now I need to look feasibility of the cars themselves. Originally I was looking into using an FV or Super Vee car but to my knowledge they lack an alternator and would be very difficult to run accessories such as lights, horn, etc... in addition to them being air cooled and notorious for overheating at a standstill.

Yes,
For the record... you are insane.
First thing that comes to mind... the ride heights of a PFM are so low, it would make street driving impossible and damage the tub in the process. And to raise the car to accomadate the street would be a travesty.
But... what the hell. Do it, and make a youtube video, so we can all enjoy.

[Jamesbe]

These cars are so low it's near impossible really unless you drive on transport wheels lol.

Like my car gets high centered entering my trailer such a pita.

[nweber911]

These cars are so low it's near impossible really unless you drive on transport wheels lol.

Like my car gets high centered entering my trailer such a pita.

Hmm.. okay I figured they were very low to ensure maximum effect of all that aero, I'm not looking to build a championship winning FM car and for autocross/hill climbs I will have to raise the car anyway. Honestly it has been a dream of mine to own a Formula car since I was a kid but I do not have the money or time to become a professional competitor. I have more than a decade racing Miatas and I am familiar with Rotary engines including the Renesis engines but I have no experience with open wheel cars. So I see this as a potential way to live my dream and continue doing AutoX, HPDE, and HillClimbs.

[Purple Frog]

Let's face it... it is fun being a sarcastic A-hole and squirt a firehose up your skirt.... But.

Realistically... how are you going to drive a car with a 70+ mph 1st gear on the street?
If you change the gear stack so it is reasonably streetable, then it will be a complete pig on the track.

Were you thinking about getting somebody like Hagerty to insure this thing for the street? I want to be there when you approach your State Farm agent. LOL

Tires... are you going to try to drive on race tires? Or were you going to put on DOT tires?
Then when you get to the track, were you going to stay on DOT tires. I see a nice meeting with a tire wall in your future if you try that. Then after you stick it in the wall... are you going to call Uber to get home?

Or, maybe you were going to pull a trailer behind the PFM with the spare gears and race tires....

Do you not have some street car? Like maybe an old Saab or a '84Toyota Corolla? Even a Prius will pull it.
Put a trailer hitch on it. Get a $1,000 open trailer and get on with the program.

Still a curmudgeon... but I speak from a wee bit of experience.

[Bob Posner]

Look at Woodstock Motorsports website. Portland's Jess Heitman is a Mazda hill climb and formula car shop

[nweber911]

Let's face it... it is fun being a sarcastic A-hole and squirt a firehose up your skirt.... But.

Realistically... how are you going to drive a car with a 70+ mph 1st gear on the street?
If you change the gear stack so it is reasonably streetable, then it will be a complete pig on the track.

Were you thinking about getting somebody like Hagerty to insure this thing for the street? I want to be there when you approach your State Farm agent. LOL

Tires... are you going to try to drive on race tires? Or were you going to put on DOT tires?
Then when you get to the track, were you going to stay on DOT tires. I see a nice meeting with a tire wall in your future if you try that. Then after you stick it in the wall... are you going to call Uber to get home?

Still a curmudgeon... but I speak from a wee bit of experience.

Lol, it's al good I enjoy some friendly banter and certainly expected far worse ridicule for my idea. I wasn't aware that the 6 speed Hewland had a 70mph 1st gear lol that could be a big problem as going 70 mph through my neighborhood might be frowned upon by my neighbors lol.

I would love to see the look on my Geico agents face if I asked them to insure an open wheel formula car, no I plan to use Grundy as Hagerty is a bunch of A-Holes.

I would run DOT legal performance tires on the street and have family or friends bring slicks/tools/spares for track days etc...

Lol, yes I do own several other cars of which I could tow a flat bed with or borrow a truck if need be, call me crazy but a big part of appeal for me is taking the car to club events, car shows, etc... I know that's probably a bit childish but like I said it's been a childhood dream of mine since I started wrenching on cars at 10 years old.

I truly appreciate your candor and giving me honest feedback based on your experience, you have already given me much to think about...

[nweber911]

Look at Woodstock Motorsports website. Portland's Jess Heitman is a Mazda hill climb and formula car shop

Awesome thank you very much, I will reach out to them, I've seen some of their work before but wasn't aware they were into FM.

[Pi_guy]

I know that's probably a bit childish but like I said it's been a childhood dream of mine since I started wrenching on cars at 10 years old.

I truly appreciate your candor and giving me honest feedback based on your experience, you have already given me much to think about...

Very wrong on a bunch of levels.

The only people on this site that will support you are looking for a laugh at your expense.

If you want a quick education why this is wrong, go out on a track with sedans on a open test day.

[nweber911]

I guess my next question for you would have to be is there a different open wheel platform you would suggest I look into for my pursuit of a street legal Formula car? I've looked into FF2000, FV, Super Vee, but I settled on FM or PFM because they are water cooled, can run electronic accessories, electric start, etc...

[LenFC11]

There is no suitable formula car for street use.. none.. nada.. niet..

These cars run about an inch or so of ride hight.. think about that... 1"
The crown of the road alone would cause the car damage..

then consider the overall hight of the car.. about 36" to the top of roll bar.. street cars would not even see you.. I was on track one time with street cars for a hardship practice.. scared me right off the track in a lap or two

This site is for serious racers.. I honestly don't believe you will find anyone to support this idea

Frog gave you the proper advice. If you want a formula car put it on an inexpensive open trailer and have at it

If you go through with this project you will essentially make the car worthless..

[xmazdatracy]

Worthless to some... $100K to one/two bored men.

http://www.race-cars.com/carsales/ot...73828061ss.htm

I would rather spend my money on your miata.

Try starting with a exocet.

[EricP]

As said above: you are insane!

Have you considered an Ariel Atom? Probably closest thing to a formula car for the street.

[Doug FST 5]

I eventually passed the Porsche but boy was I aware that he may not see me!
BTW - the VW idea is do-able if you put the fan and generator back on the motor. Not that I would recommend street driving a formula car for any distance.

I hope you find someone local to talk with. Attend a race or two with that team. Your opinion of all this might shift a bit.

Doug FST 5

[Jamesbe]

How about a radical SR3. Comes pretty much road legal with signals and headlights and such. Still would be a scary drive and feels horrible on any bumps. Drove mine around my block.

https://youtu.be/MtgPDh1Cbrk

[Purple Frog]

In the early 70's I had this private competition to see how fast one could get from Florida State University in Tallahassee to Miami Florida. It was private because I never told anyone else. I had done a 6:15 on one occasion. (Dorm mate's 65 six cylinder Mustang)
I had the world famous Cockroach I at the time. A mid engine home built Autocross formula special with a 1788cc VW powerplant.
I also had a collection of junk VWs which included micro buses (Kombis). I discovered that the Kombis had large capacity beautifully rectangular fuel tanks. With some measuring I realized I could strap one on each side of the single seater and be able to drive non-stop all the way to Miami.

These are the things Kummer and I would discuss long into the night drinking Boones Farm while camping in the infield at Road Atlanta for the Runoffs in the 70s.

In the light of day it was not the effort to make it street legal that killed the idea, it was the thought of the possible conflagration resulting from even the most minor of accidents. Something like 40 gallons of Sunoco surrounding me.

So... that said, I can relate to the desire to drive a formula car on the street just for the pure fun of it.

I would suggest you start with a FST or even an old FV. No need to stick to the engine rules. Fairly inexpensive to aquire. All the mechanicals, shifting, steering, etc are already worked out. You can get a pretty reliable 90 HP or more with a 900 lb car. (2100 cc) It has sexy enough big tires to look cool. And it has plenty of ground clearance as seen in the FST vs. Porsche picture above. Gearbox is full of streetable gears. Just don't use first. It would be easy to add a few wings. The front horns on the torsion bar tubes are a good place to install lights and turn signals. Led lights can be installed on the rear wing. In Florida at least, you don't need wipers if you don't have a windshield. You only are required to wear eye protection. Put an alternator and fan assembly on that VW engine and go have fun. With aftermarket wheel adapters you can easily install wizzy looking wheels.

Follow that plan and I'll cheer you on. Go for it! Plus it will be a lot of fun as an autocross car, or even track days.

[billtebbutt]

Hey guys and gals,

I have a very unique and probably insane idea, I am looking to get into a used Star Mazda or a Pro Formula Mazda to make street legal here in Oregon so I can drive to and from autocross, Hill climbs and track days as well as participate in local Mazda Club events. I have quite a few questions so I would rather find someone local who I can talk to in person. Does anyone know someone who is local to Pacific NW (Oregon/Washington) who might be willing to talk some sense into me and answer questions I have? Thank you in advance for any assistance you all can provide me!

My wife, the lawyer, uses a saying in business that applies here. It goes like this:

"The next best answer to a quick "yes" is a quick "no". So, "no". No, no, no. You are proposing to take good race car and turn it into a bad street car AND a bad race car. But I applaud you dreaming. I still dream that Frank Williams has me on speed dial. And the answer to that dream is also.......No. No no no......

BT

[Joules5]

You mention HPDE events, but you will find few that will allow an open wheel car, primarily for the same reasons to not run a formula car in street traffic.

The closest thing to a street legal formula car is a BAC Mono, a friend here locally had one and would not road register it for many of the same fears. Other cheaper (and significantly safer) options might be an Ariel Atom or a Caterham super seven.

[nweber911]

Thank you very much to those of you with constructive criticism and suggestions I greatly appreciate it, I knew from the get go that many people would ridicule me or laugh at me for even suggesting the idea lol. I have looked into several of the street legal "Open Wheel" cars like the Ariel Atom, Caterham, Lotus 7, BAC but I have found very few for sale and most are too rich for my paychecks but I will keep looking and see what I can find.

[nweber911]

In the early 70's I had this private competition to see how fast one could get from Florida State University in Tallahassee to Miami Florida. It was private because I never told anyone else. I had done a 6:15 on one occasion. (Dorm mate's 65 six cylinder Mustang)
I had the world famous Cockroach I at the time. A mid engine home built Autocross formula special with a 1788cc VW powerplant.
I also had a collection of junk VWs which included micro buses (Kombis). I discovered that the Kombis had large capacity beautifully rectangular fuel tanks. With some measuring I realized I could strap one on each side of the single seater and be able to drive non-stop all the way to Miami.

These are the things Kummer and I would discuss long into the night drinking Boones Farm while camping in the infield at Road Atlanta for the Runoffs in the 70s.

In the light of day it was not the effort to make it street legal that killed the idea, it was the thought of the possible conflagration resulting from even the most minor of accidents. Something like 40 gallons of Sunoco surrounding me.

So... that said, I can relate to the desire to drive a formula car on the street just for the pure fun of it.

I would suggest you start with a FST or even an old FV. No need to stick to the engine rules. Fairly inexpensive to aquire. All the mechanicals, shifting, steering, etc are already worked out. You can get a pretty reliable 90 HP or more with a 900 lb car. (2100 cc) It has sexy enough big tires to look cool. And it has plenty of ground clearance as seen in the FST vs. Porsche picture above. Gearbox is full of streetable gears. Just don't use first. It would be easy to add a few wings. The front horns on the torsion bar tubes are a good place to install lights and turn signals. Led lights can be installed on the rear wing. In Florida at least, you don't need wipers if you don't have a windshield. You only are required to wear eye protection. Put an alternator and fan assembly on that VW engine and go have fun. With aftermarket wheel adapters you can easily install wizzy looking wheels.

Follow that plan and I'll cheer you on. Go for it! Plus it will be a lot of fun as an autocross car, or even track days.

Thank you very much for the advice, I am going to meet with one of the local FV builders and team owners here in Portland tomorrow about what you suggested with a vintage FV. He had some of the same reservations many on here have expressed but he assured me it is possible if I am willing to do the work and put in the money. I looked online at some of the alternator conversion kits for the 1200 engines, would you suggest doing that or going with a 1600 instead? As far as a rear spoiler and front splitter I'm assuming all of those are fabricated since there are so many different FV body styles? As far as safety is concerned I plan to paint the car a nice bright color, use bright LED indicators and keep the car as ear shatteringly loud as legally possible in an attempt to avoid being used as a hood emblem on a Chevy Tahoe. I might even get one of those silly ATV flags for it when I know I'm going to be driving in more densely populated areas. I live in a small town in wine country with lot of twisty back roads (mainly where I plan to use the car) I have no intentions of driving this thing on Interstate 5 or into heavily congested areas, I cant imagine an FV would be fun in traffic and would guess that overheating even with the OE fan would become a concern.

I have read the countless threads about guys who autocross their old FVs and can't remove the ear to ear grin from their faces. If I do end up going through with this idea I will be sure to reach out to you and post up on here for everyone's enjoyment.