Skip Barber liquidation

[Chris_12]

Well, it is happening. As I am interested in getting into open wheel racing. Does anyone have any suggestions on this? https://www.proxibid.com/aspr/Skip-B...nCatalog=14077

There are also Pro Dodge cars. I am curious on everyone's thoughts on them. What class would they be?

Braselton: https://www.proxibid.com/asp/Catalog.asp?aid=134342
Gainesville: https://www.proxibid.com/asp/Catalog.asp?aid=134340

[holmberg]

I'm not familiar with these cars, but just looking at the photos in the first link, it appears to be Formula Ford-ish. That's a Hewland/Webster gearbox, and I'm pretty sure a Ford Kent engine.

Whether the engine properly conforms to SCCA rules, I wouldn't know.

Aerodynamically, these cars would not be competitive in FF. Possibly in the regional-only classes usually called "Club Ford". That is, if it meets FF build rules and the chassis is old enough. Usually 1981 and earlier. Similarly, it could be a Vintage FF. I think that's 1973 and earlier.

Also, those appear to be 15" wheels. You'd have to convert it to 13x5.5 wheels. This would probably require a redesign of the suspension.

In any case, it looks like it hasn't been touched in many years. It would take a lot of work to make it safe and functional again. And even then, might not be SCCA legal. I personally wouldn't pay more than $1000, and that's only if I could confirm that it could be raced with the SCCA or some vintage organization.

Greg

[charleswdaniels63]

That car is (or once was) a Formula Ford 1600 with Kent engine and Hewland gearbox. Barber used them for their schools in the late 80s and early 90s. Barber has not used them for many years. They would not be eligible for vintage FF or CF because they were all produced long after the 1981 cutoff date. This auction notice tells nothing of condition or contents. Without more information, buying it at any price is a huge gamble. If it has a salvageable motor or transmission, it may have value.

[alangbaker]

From chatting with folks at Skip Barber, my understanding is that they started out (or came around to) using Mondiale Formula Fords, so perhaps that's one from before they started modifying them more and more.

[Wes Allen]

Like all school cars these are abused by newbies. I don't where the Kent Mondiale came from. The ford engine cars were last used in 1994ish?? Soon after they replaced the ford engine with the Dodge Neon engine. It was more powerful and they changed the brake calipers to suit. After a lot of money they might make a good autocross car. But one could part them out and make some money? When I ran Skippy in the mid nineties the Hewland took some savage abuse, when they were trying to teach double clutch down shifting to the new drivers.

My thoughts you would be much better off finding a Crossle or Tiga ready to go.

[alangbaker]

New evidence from the photo of the rear upright shows at least that part to be a Crossle.

[TimH]

New evidence from the photo of the rear upright shows at least that part to be a Crossle.

Back of the chassis looks familiar, too. But boy is it rough...

[SEComposites]

I've had a look over this car as I live close by. I thought if I could get the engine and gearbox super cheap it's probably worth having. The bodywork and chassis are relatively clean but the engine/gearbox looked very rough and home to several generations of squirrel judging by the state of it. I couldn't actually get it into any gear either, but that may have been a rusted up shift linkage. Or bad things going on inside the 'box! I inquired about the price of the complete car before the auction and was told $14k. You can imagine what I thought about that, but politely declined!

[OneWayOut]

Also, those appear to be 15" wheels. You'd have to convert it to 13x5.5 wheels. This would probably require a redesign of the suspension. In any case, it looks like it hasn't been touched in many years. It would take a lot of work to make it safe and functional again.

Agreed. Solving the tire problem and going through the entire car would like a lot of time/effort/money.

All I see here is a bunch of parts cars. Tons of "reserve not met", so I don't think anyone is going to get a screaming deal.

[BWC54]

What are the 2 carbon fiber tub cars at Braselton?

[SEComposites]

What are the 2 carbon fiber tub cars at Braselton?

These two cars were built as a bids for a contract to supply the school with a more modern car in about 2006. One car is effectively the Elan Formula Mazda with a 4 cylinder motor. I remember this car being built at Elan when I ran the Model Shop there. The other car was Mygales’ offering for the contract. Obviously Barber never went through with the update. Both of these cars look fairly neglected as well unfortunately.

[FVRacer21]

Since I helped build these cars, I can fill everyone in. In the early 1980's we were running Crossle 35F and they were very close to regular FF of that era. As the chassis were getting old, management wanted to look for something more modern (this was the time of the early Reynard 84f and Swifts.

The several items we were trying to address was.
1. Get the radiator out of the front where it was prone to damage
2. Move the front shocks inboard to cut down on damage
3. Go to shear plates to reduce frame damage
4. Keep the Crossle rear suspension to keep the cars handling superb
5. Improve the driver cockpit and increase safety ( i don't remember if we stretched the WB a little)
6. Minor things like relocating the battery.
7. Change the body to look more like current fords

Now we had the Crossle 50 F which was a full inboard, center radiator car running in our Midwest Series. These were great cars but not as suited to the school atmosphere.

We were the Mondiale dealer at the time so we commissioned Leslie Drysdale (who worked at Crossle before striking out on his own) to design the chassis, body work and conversion parts. From the firewall back it was all Crossle. From the firewall forward it was all custom, hence the moniker SBR-1 which was shortened to B1 - (also like the bomber - as late and over budget...) Was one of the first cars to have high cockpit bars for driver protection.

But they were solid as school cars and ran from around 1985 - sometime in the 1990's when they started to become bastardized with Dodge parts.

The cars did originally run 13" wheels so converting back the geometry might be just changing the shear plates. The engine and transmission on this one were built in house and I am sure have not been touched in 20 years - if there are even parts inside - this might have been a show car - built with slightly bent and worn out parts (but a new body usually)

Most of the FF engines and Hewland/Webster Mk9 gearboxes disappeared with the Dodge engines and sequential gearboxes, so I doubt much spares are left.

We ran fuel cells but not full containers, so might not be legal today without work. No fire system or homoligation papers papers. So you can add that if you wanted to run in the SCCA.

If these cars were still up in CT, I might make a move to put together enough parts to make a roller, then stick a Honda in it, but you would have to be north of $15K at that point, maybe more.

The best would be to put it together and run vintage - Skip would fall over if this showed up at the Vintage Festival!

The other cars are a mixture of the Barber Dodge and maybe one Barber Saab car. These would only be good for track days and parts probably hard to come by. Looks like the two school prototypes are also there - but condition????

It is a shame that the later management treated the cars so poorly. We always new they were appliances, but they were special to us (the original team) and took great pride in putting a good product on the track.

Chris Z
SBRS 1982 - 1988

[str5010]

My father is actually buying one of the Mondiale Barber Dodges from this auction. It appears to be complete based on the pictures he was sent, but won't know for sure until he takes posession. He was mainly attracted to the car just for the sake of history as a Dodge motorsports fan, but has a secondary intention of at least having the car track day capable in the future.

Could anyone point us in the right direction in terms of servicing a car like this? While he owns an auto repair business and has been a drag racing/auto-x/track day participant for years now with production vehicles, this will be his first open wheel car. I have located a Hewland gearbox service manual for him and he is already squared away on the powerplant service, but would be at a loss in terms of servicing the chassis.

I've been trying to find a contact for someone that maintained these cars at Skip Barber.

Thank you

[Purple Frog]

You'll get plenty of help from this forum. Just post questions as they arise. Pictures help.
He should have no problem quickly understanding the brake system, etc. Pretty basic.

[str5010]

You'll get plenty of help from this forum. Just post questions as they arise. Pictures help.
He should have no problem quickly understanding the brake system, etc. Pretty basic.

Very well, thank you!

I will start and thread and post pictures when he gets the car. My concern for him will be verifying the chassis is safe and secure including the suspension components. If the car really is complete it will surely need a few things at a minimum like a fuel cell/bladder.

[SEComposites]

Having seen these cars up close during the auction period I would implore you to completely disassemble the car and check everything. The school cars were in terrible shape although the Barber Dodge cars did look a bit cleaner but they’ve probably sat for decades.

[str5010]

Having seen these cars up close during the auction period I would implore you to completely disassemble the car and check everything. The school cars were in terrible shape although the Barber Dodge cars did look a bit cleaner but they’ve probably sat for decades.

Thanks for the heads up! Will certainly do that but it will be a learning experience with no prior formula car experience.

[rdracr]

I bought one of these as a parts car for the parts that I knew would fit my Crossle 32. I really don't need the rest if someone wants them.

[EYERACE]

crack check the entire chassis

[BorkRacing]

I bought one of these as a parts car for the parts that I knew would fit my Crossle 32. I really don't need the rest if someone wants them.

Curious abou the cost and condition?

Robby

[str5010]

crack check the entire chassis

Would this be a dye penetrant inspection?

[BorkRacing]

Would this be a dye penetrant inspection?

Also check every welded/brazed joint before stripping paint or blasting. Look for rust as this is a tell tale sign of a failed connection.
You also need to determine if the chassis was Nickel brazed as you cannot MIG over that. Do a search and read the threads on frame repair.

Robby

[DanW]

Would this be a dye penetrant inspection?

Yes. You can find quite a bit with visual inspection, particularly with a good magnifying glass. Dye penetrant helps with confirmation of a crack or defect indication. It is not foolproof, but it does help. If you can find someone who can perform wet mag particle inspection, even better.

[SEComposites]

Also check every welded/brazed joint before stripping paint or blasting. Look for rust as this is a tell tale sign of a failed connection.
You also need to determine if the chassis was Nickel brazed as you cannot MIG over that. Do a search and read the threads on frame repair.

Robby

Agreed. You’d be amazed at what some people think is an acceptable repair. I had to part out an FF after I had the frame media blasted. Amountg other horrors there were so many bad MIG welds over the top of the original brazed joints. Needless to say they’d all cracked. What mess!

I would strip your Barber Dodge down to the bare frame regardless. It’ll be a great way to know every inch of the car!

[str5010]

Thanks all, I'll be able to get a better idea of the situation when the car is picked up in January.

I'm an engineer by day and knew this kind of preparation would be required to safely track such a car. I tried to pass this info on to my father before he decided to purchase. Hopefully he isn't dissuaded from tracking the car but I foresee him being a bit turned off by what he would perceive as a full restoration.

While I've performed dye pen, mag particle and ultrasonic inspections myself and have the equipment/ability to TIG, I don't consider myself nearly experienced enough in any area to qualify for chassis repairs.

[BorkRacing]

Thanks all, I'll be able to get a better idea of the situation when the car is picked up in January.

I'm an engineer by day and knew this kind of preparation would be required to safely track such a car. I tried to pass this info on to my father before he decided to purchase. Hopefully he isn't dissuaded from tracking the car but I foresee him being a bit turned off by what he would perceive as a full restoration.

While I've performed dye pen, mag particle and ultrasonic inspections myself and have the equipment/ability to TIG, I don't consider myself nearly experienced enough in any area to qualify for chassis repairs.

If you know whats bad then you can do whats right. It's the people who don't know what they don't know that run into problems. Go for it.

[str5010]

Well all, finally picked up that Barber Dodge Mondiale chassis from this auction and unfortunately I was right - the car needs everything.

My father hoped it was the car they used for all the promotional work but also that it would be mostly complete and could be restored semi-easily for track days. It is in fact the show car but as I feared upon inspection it seems to be a roller assembled from various spares.

The pedals and master cylinder/reservoir are gone, engine is there but looks as though it may not all be there internally. The ecu and wiring harness for the sensors and injection is gone but the ignition harness and coil are there. No starter. For some reason the Penske shocks and shock reservoirs are present but the big one that hurts - gearbox case is empty.

At least one of the rear lower control arms appears damaged and somehow there is a fair amount of surface corrosion on a bulk of the fasteners.

Also strange that I couldn't find a chassis number anywhere - anyone know where they were stamped?

He's still optimistic but it would cost more than a turn key car to get this one back out there safely in my opinion. Cleans up ok from a few feet away but not pretty up close.

If he stays motivated I'll start a thread with detailed pics to get some advisement on what, if anything could be done.

[Boris]

Well all, finally picked up that Barber Dodge Mondiale chassis from this auction

Hi, Do you know what happened to all the cars that raced in the Barber Dodge pro Series? I heard they may have gone to Colombia with Juan Pablo Montoya the ex F1 driver who planned to set up a race series there but I can't find any information on the internet.