Vir

[a. pettipas]

36 cars (IIRC) in 2012, 9 posted a time in qualifying this morning, what's going on? Grids were decent in Atlanta and at the Glen.

[glm34]

I see that some of the regulars from last year are running road to Indy with their Zetec cars. Maybe around six or more. Also, I think a few jumped to f4.

[a. pettipas]

No that does not explain 7 starters in R1, getting worse with each session... migration to the RTI has been minimal and some who have run in Anderson's series still support FRP events too. RA and WG had respectable grids.

F4? Is that still a thing? quintessential solution to the problem that doesn't exist.

[Wren]

Going from 9 to 7 was a result of 2 engine expirations.

I think some people are either still angry or still have torn up cars from WGI. Others had conflicts.

It's still the best series going for these cars. I think the numbers will be better for MO.


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[a. pettipas]

I was being a little saucy with the getting-worse-by-the-session comment, but 9, 7 whatever, such a dramatic decline in only 3-4 years.

Angry? Why is anyone angry? Can you elaborate?

I will be at Mid-Ohio.

[Wren]

I don't understand the dramatic decline either. It's still an amazing series that really cares about giving the racers a great experience.

At WGI during the first race, it started sleeting near the end of the race while everyone was behind the safety car for another incident. I was watching from the stands as we had hurt the motor and were done for the weekend and I could only see dark shadows of the cars on track because it was sleeting so hard. Everyone was on slicks and this was very obviously not going to end well if they didn't checker it immediately.

The green was thrown and everyone piled up in the first two corners. There were a lot of very angry people after the race.

It sucked to have to miss the race, but I couldn't be too upset about us missing that particular one.

I hope that no one would stay away for good over this. One mistake doesn't erase all the awesome decisions that FRP makes or the value that the series offers.

See you at MO.


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[problemchild]

It is clearly far better than any other options for people with F2000 cars. Whatever political differences or budgetary challenges, the Series needs people to get out and support it . Whether you can only do one or a few, please get out and keep it viable. The racing is still extremely competitive at the front, but has room for racers of different levels, back through the field.

[Wren]

I completely agree with Greg. Given the choice between running wings & things at MO for 4 laps or an awesome event with better competition with FRP, the choice should be easy.


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[Tigaman]

West Coast series doing ok...

[SteveG]

West Coast series doing ok...

There are 16 FCs entered this weekend at Laguna Seca...

[Steve Bamford]

I am sure there will a much larger turn out for MO

For sure you will get more then 4 race laps as the FC group did Saturday, all under yellow it seems too

[Bob Wright]

Thank you Greg, Steve, Wren. I'm scratching my head a little about the fall off as well. Needless to say I've talked to some of the people who did not come to VIR and there seems to be no one reason; rather a wide variety of reasons with no apparent connection- business commitments, money issues, family commitments; the list goes on.

Underlying that may be a more fundamental issue with F2000 (FC) specifically. Is it being viewed as old, out of date? Are there other choices drawing away both existing and potential participants? Is it viewed as too expensive? I looked in the Apex classifieds just now, going back to March 1st. There are 12 Zetec/VD, 2 RFR, 2 Mygale, 2 Radons for sale. There are also 7 USF2000 cars (now eligible in our series), and 10 older FC's for sale. That's 25 cars that are capable of being competitive in the Series that are not being used. A number of these cars are under $40K, one just relisted under $30K.

I believe the F2000 car is still one of the best formulas for JOWR we have- yes, it has been around for years and there is a reason for that. The F2000 series offers single run group racing at some of the best tracks east of the Mississippi with the ability to participate at very moderate cost (relative to racing in general) if one chooses.

We offer a reduced entry for any club driver to come try our series. To date, we have had only two people take us up on the offer and they are F1600 cars. I can only ask the question why? What is keeping everybody away? I'm very interested.

[Lotus7]

There are 12 Zetec/VD, 2 RFR, 2 Mygale, 2 Radons for sale. There are also 7 USF2000 cars (now eligible in our series), and 10 older FC's for sale. That's 25 cars that are capable of being competitive in the Series that are not being used. .... What is keeping everybody away? I'm very interested.

Bob, I have the same dilemma about FA. Not withstanding that one other car, I'm crewing weekly on Swift 016 chassis number 43 ! ; even allowing for the rumors that Jacek has as many as ten of them, where are the other 20+ which are not showing up to your races? :-(

FA/F2000 drivers/owners clearly didn't flock to FLites, and maybe a few are pending F4 competitors; that said, even FFit is down what, 8-10 entries these days? (but still putting on an incredible show).

They clearly aren't abandoning you for SCCA or USF, so my only conclusion is that a large number of guys across the classes are sitting back waiting for ... something?

[problemchild]

It is not tire costs.
The F1600 tire reduced costs slightly .... we still buy 6 per event .... but only need 4 so a budget racer would be down a third.
I think the tire change since 2014 has almost halved the cost of F2000 tire cost. You used to have to buy tires to practice, but now the used ones from the previous event are fine for practice and again, a budget racer would be giving very little away buying just 4.
I don't know how you can race a F2000 car much cheaper.

[Steve Bamford]

Bob, I have the same dilemma about FA. Not withstanding that one other car, I'm crewing weekly on Swift 016 chassis number 43 ! ; even allowing for the rumors that Jacek has as many as ten of them, where are the other 20+ which are not showing up to your races? :-(

FA/F2000 drivers/owners clearly didn't flock to FLites, and maybe a few are pending F4 competitors; that said, even FFit is down what, 8-10 entries these days? (but still putting on an incredible show).

They clearly aren't abandoning you for SCCA or USF, so my only conclusion is that a large number of guys across the classes are sitting back waiting for ... something?

FF grid had 14 at VIR, not 8-10, and high teens at WG and RA races. F2000 car count is way off for some reason.

[stonebridge20]

Problem solved.

[andyllc]

Problem solved.

wow

[Lotus7]

FF grid had 14 at VIR, not 8-10, and high teens at WG and RA races. F2000 car count is way off for some reason.

yes, I meant "down 8-10" from year or two ago

[Steve Demeter]

My personal opinion is that it was an anomaly. The F2KCS series is great by all measures (just wish that I was not geographically, financially and work challenged so i could run it).

Not that it is unreasonably costly, just would cost a lot more to run than my normal 3-4 races 125 miles from home.

I think that next race entries will pop back to the normal level.

The organizers are doing a fantastic job from everything I hear and read.

[Bob Wright]

Yea...I did some of the Hooters Cup races. I only wish we could find some of the same level of sponsorship. Same with Export "A"; $10,000 to win. And, yes, it would certainly solve the problem, wouldn't it?

Even more impressive is a list of the drivers...

[Purple Frog]

Steve,
The F2kCS is not for you. Or, even me. You don't travel very far. Nor spend much racing. If so you would be doing all the great GLC events just up the street from you.
What FC needs in SCCA is a nationwide GLC dealy bob.
The Mid-O majors was a complete disaster of mixed class racing.
Why guys that have $2 to $5 grand to spend per weekend continue to go to the majors confuses me.
The money is better spent with F2kCS.
But, to blast F2kCS... why weren't they tooting their horn all weekend showing the most obvious advantages they have. Piss poor PR, me thinks.
They sould have been filling the interweb with their PR. Shame on them.
as always... ymmv

[Bob Wright]

Shame on us...however...where should we be tooting that horn? Apexspeed? We post links to our website for every event we have. We are on multiple social media. The more general racing media ignore us and don't even post our releases even though they are sent out on an extremely timely basis.

This is an equation I haven't been able to solve yet.

[Purple Frog]

I don't think Apexspeed has lost its punch in terms of the F2000 community. At one time it was F2000.com. This is the site that killed the e'lan intake. This is where the F2k car owners still lurk. But, they have nothing recently to post about or comment about.
"Work the base".

[Jnovak]

Even a small corporate sponsor that has a modern PR department is what is needed IMO.

Open wheel Formula cars are simply not popular here in the USA.

[Steve Bamford]

Open wheel Formula cars are simply not popular here in the USA.

You're right, for some reason they don't even seem to be popular with the people that own them anymore! So many sitting. Think of the threads earlier in the year talking about getting more FC's out in the SCCA events. I don't think much has come of it.

[Tigaman]

Problem solved.

Do you save EVERYTHING?

Have to say, the amount of publicity, press and social media is way off from a few years ago for this series. I see friends post, which is how I know there was a race weekend. The F1600 finishes were incredible, but the only picture I saw was from the starter who's a FB friend of mine. Not good.

That said, racing is cyclical. Sure, we'll see entry numbers rebound for particular races. Like driver performance, it's the trend that's important...

[gfastr]

Do you save EVERYTHING?

Have to say, the amount of publicity, press and social media is way off from a few years ago for this series. I see friends post, which is how I know there was a race weekend. The F1600 finishes were incredible, but the only picture I saw was from the starter who's a FB friend of mine. Not good.

That said, racing is cyclical. Sure, we'll see entry numbers rebound for particular races. Like driver performance, it's the trend that's important...

Peter, maybe you need to check your Facebook settings. F1600 and F2000 stuff is all over Facebook. There was even video of both photo-finishes at VIR.

[stonebridge20]

[QUOTE]

Do you save EVERYTHING?

You should see my belly button lint collection. It's impressive!

[Pi_guy]

This is an equation I haven't been able to solve yet.

I do not see the equation as solvable. I think you wind up making compromises and have to live with what you get.

From living here on LI we had a wealth of talent in drivers and technology and a race track. We had one of the core starting groups in Formula Ford how many people passed through the location in Locost Valley, and continued on in Motorsports. How many businesses were spurred on from what passed through those doors.
We do have any place like that any more, most places have turned into old guys talking about what should be.

And one of those guys who passed through that place is closing up his shop at the end of June.

[Tigaman]

Peter, maybe you need to check your Facebook settings. F1600 and F2000 stuff is all over Facebook. There was even video of both photo-finishes at VIR.

It's not a slam, it's just a data point. A few years ago, I got email feed, press releases in my motorsport.com feed and a ton of other news germane to this series... Now? Not so much.

I'm not exactly "not connected"

[gfastr]

It's not a slam, it's just a data point. A few years ago, I got email feed, press releases in my motorsport.com feed and a ton of other news germane to this series... Now? Not so much.

I'm not exactly "not connected"

Not a slam at you either. but sometime FB filters things in strange ways that aren't transparent.

By my count there were at least a dozen FB posts per day for both F1600 and F2000. If you "like" the series and didn't see them, then FB may be the culprit.

[aims20]

I think a little bit of calibration is needed:

On Facebook, There is an F1600 page, F2000 page, and an Atlantic page. Pictures, video, and press releases are all timely, they show up in my feed. The problem with Facebook pages is that you need to halfway be an open wheel fan already for Facebook to suggest liking the page.

I have also been looking at various track schedules trying to plan out my year, and our events are not advertised as spectator events. I don't know what kind of costs might be involved with that, but we as a series have zero visibility outside of our good old boys club.

Speaking as a young guy that is working in the series, and to support Mr. Krause's point, I don't see anything either on motorsport.com or Racer.com, and I know for a fact that several of my engineering buddies that I graduated with that have gone on to IndyCar, NASCAR, and IMSA, do follow those 2 sites more than others (As do I).

If we really believe PR is an issue, I highly suggest looking into the above-mentioned websites.

The bigger issue, aside from possibly VIR just being an anomaly, is that a lot of people may just be waiting on the sidelines to see how F4 turns out. And I think that includes teams. If F4 takes off, it will be the American ladder step to Europe. Our series used to be the one to send people to Europe (Santino Ferrucci, now at Haas F1; There's a PR story. Jake Eidson and Aaron Telitz for Team USA, Quinlan Lall, just to name a few).

We need to find what the value added is for our series otherwise people will migrate to the critical masses: Majors, Road to Indy/USF, or F4. We are in direct competition with all 3.

[gfastr]

I think a little bit of calibration is needed:

On Facebook, There is an F1600 page, F2000 page, and an Atlantic page. Pictures, video, and press releases are all timely, they show up in my feed. The problem with Facebook pages is that you need to halfway be an open wheel fan already for Facebook to suggest liking the page.

I have also been looking at various track schedules trying to plan out my year, and our events are not advertised as spectator events. I don't know what kind of costs might be involved with that, but we as a series have zero visibility outside of our good old boys club.

Speaking as a young guy that is working in the series, and to support Mr. Krause's point, I don't see anything either on motorsport.com or Racer.com, and I know for a fact that several of my engineering buddies that I graduated with that have gone on to IndyCar, NASCAR, and IMSA, do follow those 2 sites more than others (As do I).

If we really believe PR is an issue, I highly suggest looking into the above-mentioned websites.

The bigger issue, aside from possibly VIR just being an anomaly, is that a lot of people may just be waiting on the sidelines to see how F4 turns out. And I think that includes teams. If F4 takes off, it will be the American ladder step to Europe. Our series used to be the one to send people to Europe (Santino Ferrucci, now at Haas F1; There's a PR story. Jake Eidson and Aaron Telitz for Team USA, Quinlan Lall, just to name a few).

We need to find what the value added is for our series otherwise people will migrate to the critical masses: Majors, Road to Indy/USF, or F4. We are in direct competition with all 3.

Based on some of my previous experience ,on-line website/magazines (e.g. RACER.com, National Speed Sport News) make editorial decisions on what content they include, and what they don't. Last year it seemed that Formula Lites got coverage out of proportion with its actual stature in terms of entries and competitiveness. Wonder why? Don't assume that because F1600/2000/Atlantic information doesn't appear, it's from lack of effort.

Lots of good points in here by the way. Thanks!

[Pi_guy]

Based on some of my previous experience ,on-line website/magazines (e.g. RACER.com, National Speed Sport News) make editorial decisions on what content they include, and what they don't. Last year it seemed that Formula Lites got coverage out of proportion with its actual stature in terms of entries and competitiveness. Wonder why? Don't assume that because F1600/2000/Atlantic information doesn't appear, it's from lack of effort.

Lots of good points in here by the way. Thanks!

Magazines like to run articles and news stories related to entities that advertize with them.

[aims20]

Don't assume that because F1600/2000/Atlantic information doesn't appear, it's from lack of effort.

For clarification, I don't assume it's a lack of effort at all. Resources, maybe.

[Steve Demeter]

Mr. Frog you are exactly correct on all points, except one.

I would bet that there is not one F2000 car owner East of the Mississippi that is not aware of the F2KCS and the great racing and value that they provide for the money.

I am not sure how the series and Mr. Wright could do any better job of getting the word out than they are already doing.

Just MHO

[Steve Bamford]

Mid Ohio - FC cars in all sessions, if they did every lap ran 40 laps max for the weekend. That was 1 practice, 2 qualifying & 2 races. What's the cost for a Major now...$650-$750?

VIR - F2000 ran 2 practice sessions, 2 qualifying & 2 race sessions for 30 mins and all green laps. If I convert the VIR laps to Mid Ohio lap equivalent I end up with over 120 laps for the weekend. $1150.00 was the entry fee.

I know where I see more value. I really don't know why others don't see the same value I do.

I have run with many different organizations and spend my money with the group who appreciate and treat racers as customers first.

[HazelNut]

(late night rant deleted, suffice it to say i don't believe it has ANYTHING to do with the equipment)

[a. pettipas]

(late night rant deleted, suffice it to say i don't believe it has ANYTHING to do with the equipment)

Why have you deprived us of an entertaining LNR?

[Matt M.]

(late night rant deleted)

Just delete the whole thing - don't even say LNR deleted...... It's like seeing the crumbs left where the cake used to be....