License renewal requirements

[Bob Coury]

I keep forgetting to all them during the week. Does anybody know the answers to my questions below concerning my new 2 year renewal:

1. The GCR states “B. A Full Competition license holder may enter multiple races in an event, but will earn only one license credit for each class raced per weekend." Does that mean that if it is a double weekend, and I race both Saturday AND Sunday, it is only one race credit?
2. Likewise, if I only race on Saturday only during a Double weekend, does that mean I get no credit?
3. To maintain my 2 year license, do I only need 1 race credit per year for each year? Or can that also mean get 2 credits in one year and zero in the next? I other words combine everything into one season?

Thanks
Bob

[Steve Davis]

1. The GCR states “B. A Full Competition license holder may enter multiple races in an event, but will earn only one license credit for each class raced per weekend." Does that mean that if it is a double weekend, and I race both Saturday AND Sunday, it is only one race credit?
Thanks
Bob

I believe this is intended for someone that races in more than one class - like SM which might be eligible in both SM and STL. I also think the term 'weekend' is now inappropriate since a LOT of 'weekends' are DOUBLES. A person putting the same car in 2 classes during an event would get credit for only ONE of those. However, if you race in both races of a double weekend, you should get credit for TWO races .. but only in one.. or the other.. or both classes. TWO maximum credits for a double race weekend - not four.

2. Likewise, if I only race on Saturday only during a Double weekend, does that mean I get no credit?

Thanks
Bob

You get credit for one if you race only on Saturday ... as long as it's an official RACE.

3. To maintain my 2 year license, do I only need 1 race credit per year for each year? Or can that also mean get 2 credits in one year and zero in the next? I other words combine everything into one season?

Thanks
Bob

That, I'm not so sure about .. HOWEVER, I *AM* sure that SCCA is currently bending over backwards to let ANYONE with a 'decent sniff' of racing be able to participate at whatever level they choose... as long as it looks like they might be competent.

IOW --- if you have reasonable racing experience (several races without undue 'incident'), then you should always ask for a waiver from your divisional licensing steward if you didn't fullfill the GCR obligations. - MOST of the time, it will be granted. We WANT people to race and we NEED entries at the events

Steve, FV80

[Peter Olivola]

The one wrinkle not mentioned in the licensing portion of the new GCR is the change to a single sanction number for an entire weekend, regardless of the number of races. In the past, license credit has been tied to the sanction number. As a steward, it's not yet clear to me how this is going to shake out. This might be an appropriate subject to broach with Club Racing.

[dalz]

--- if you have reasonable racing experience (several races without undue 'incident'), then you should always ask for a waiver from your divisional licensing steward if you didn't fullfill the GCR obligations. - MOST of the time, it will be granted. We WANT people to race and we NEED entries at the events

Steve, FV80

I raced for several consecutive years in the early 2000's like this. I stretched Mr. Lybarger's benefit of the doubt to the limit, with help from my lovable crank car owner at the time, "C'mon Bob, you want another June Sprints entry from a guy who knows what he's doing or not?" I submitted a mini-resume of my past experience, in case it was forgotten, and evidence of recent seat time at private test sessions and other forms of racing. I never made anyone regret their faith in me, but I wouldn't recommend it, at least without REALLY being sure of your experience and skill level.

[Bob Coury]

Wow-I guess that I was not asking a stupid question after all.

I am trying to shy away from waivers has I used one last year for surgery and one or two in previous years for being short a race due to scheduling conflicts with work.

[dick patullo]

Wow-I guess that I was not asking a stupid question after all.

I am trying to shy away from waivers has I used one last year for surgery and one or two in previous years for being short a race due to scheduling conflicts with work.

do not fear the waiver, that is why they are there, so that people who have racing experience can race.

[dalz]

I'd like to participate in the next 2 Runoffs, then after that my career might be winding down, but I think I'd like to compete at the June Sprints as long as they'll have me. I may be pushing another steward's benefit of the doubt to the limit. Believe me, if age and inactivity erode my skills to where I'm no longer competitive, much less safe, I'll be gone long before any steward or board has to give me the bum's rush.

[Bob Clark]

As the Cen-Div Licensing guy let me clear some of this up. Sorry for the delay. Racing was not part of this month..

1. The GCR states “B. A Full Competition license holder may enter multiple races in an event, but will earn only one license credit for each class raced per weekend." Does that mean that if it is a double weekend, and I race both Saturday AND Sunday, it is only one race credit?

Correct! One credit for one weekend!

2. Likewise, if I only race on Saturday only during a Double weekend, does that mean I get no credit?

At a Divisionl/Regional you would get full credit for a race if you ran only one day. This is in the GCR License renewal chart. A majors as the rule is written you would get no credit but I think that rule will change.

3. To maintain my 2 year license, do I only need 1 race credit per year for each year? Or can that also mean get 2 credits in one year and zero in the next? I other words combine everything into one season?

Nope... GCR is very specific about it. This is in the GCR on the licensing renewal chart. It is using the 3 year deal. The 2 year deal would be the same. It is on page 144 and 145 of the 2014 GCR

I keep forgetting to all them during the week. Does anybody know the answers to my questions below concerning my new 2 year renewal:

1. The GCR states “B. A Full Competition license holder may enter multiple races in an event, but will earn only one license credit for each class raced per weekend." Does that mean that if it is a double weekend, and I race both Saturday AND Sunday, it is only one race credit?
2. Likewise, if I only race on Saturday only during a Double weekend, does that mean I get no credit?
3. To maintain my 2 year license, do I only need 1 race credit per year for each year? Or can that also mean get 2 credits in one year and zero in the next? I other words combine everything into one season?

Thanks
Bob

[Steve Demeter]

Bob,

Let me get this straight and I thought I understood.

If I race both races of a double weekend (2 separate sanction numbers) I get credit for only 1 race, even though they are two distinct and different sanctions.

Now one gets credit for participating in a race as defined by having a distinct sanction number.

Why the change when it made too much sense before??

Does this mean one has to go to twice as many weekends even though they are double races with 2 distinct sanction numbers???

I must be missing something?

[Peter Olivola]

Steve,

If you're talking about Majors, there is only one sanction number for the weekend. The issue arises because Club Racing has always tracked participation by sanction number. This falls into the unintended consequences category.

This whole situation is under review and I would expect something to come out during the Convention.

Bob,

Let me get this straight and I thought I understood.

If I race both races of a double weekend (2 separate sanction numbers) I get credit for only 1 race, even though they are two distinct and different sanctions.

Now one gets credit for participating in a race as defined by having a distinct sanction number.

Why the change when it made too much sense before??

Does this mean one has to go to twice as many weekends even though they are double races with 2 distinct sanction numbers???

I must be missing something?

[Bob Coury]

Sorry Bob, but Table one on page 145 is clear as mud to me, hence my questions:

From the GCR:
Results of 1 SCCA U.S. Majors Tour or Regional Sanctioned Race/Pro/FIA weekend per year.


It states "weekend" not race. And PER year. The way that I read that it is I have to run both races (Sat and Sun) even though they may have stand alone sanction numbers, and that I have to run at a min 1 race (aka weekend) per calendar year.

HOWEVER: I finally got a chance to call the SCCA on Monday or Tuesday, and I was informed that each sanction number=1 race, and for my 2 year, I can do both races in 1 year, and sit out the next.

??????????????????


Thanks
Bob

[Bob Clark]

SCCA has gone to "weekends" for license renewals. In the example shown in the GCR if you are on the 3 year renewal program you, would only have to do one "weekend" per year to keep that license.
Peter is correct on the "Majors" sanction numbers. However on a Divisional/Regional "weekend" there may be more than one sanction number. That is a grey area at the moment.


Steve asked:

Let me get this straight and I thought I understood.

If I race both races of a double weekend (2 separate sanction numbers) I get credit for only 1 race, even though they are two distinct and different sanctions.

Correct because license renewals are counted by "weekends"

Now one gets credit for participating in a race as defined by having a distinct sanction number.

There is nothing that defines a "Weekend" at this point but I think that will soon change.

Why the change when it made too much sense before??

Does this mean one has to go to twice as many weekends even though they are double races with 2 distinct sanction numbers???

Probably not... The number of "weekends" needed to renew your license is a lot less than before. See my note on the 3 year full comp renewal and below.

Bob Coury wrote:

It states "weekend" not race. And PER year. The way that I read that it is I have to run both races (Sat and Sun) even though they may have stand alone sanction numbers, and that I have to run at a min 1 race (aka weekend) per calendar year.

I dissagree.. There is nothing that defines a "Weekend" at this point but I think that will soon change.
I agree that you have to run one "weekend" per year. If you think about it one, "weekend" per year was the same as running a double regional weekend in the past and that was all you needed to keep a regional comp license.

HOWEVER: I finally got a chance to call the SCCA on Monday or Tuesday, and I was informed that each sanction number=1 race, and for my 2 year, I can do both races in 1 year, and sit out the next.

I dissagree.. However If you are going to do that I, would get that in writing from SCCA. I agree the rule need to be clairified big time.

So when all is said and done there are some things that need to be cleaned up and defined but overall I think it is a good thing and will help keep peopoe on track for years to come.

Bob Clark

[Marshall Mauney]

I have to say that I like this approach. Over the past decade or so, I have tended to run a relatively full schedule every other year, with the intervening years always seeming to get cut short either by expenses, schedule, or other life events. Bob C. can attest to seeing my waiver requests every other year, even though on average I'm a fairly consistent participant. The 3-year licensing program, IMO, is going to work VERY well for guys who stay in the sport long-term, but can't always commit to a full season every year.



That said, here's a question: How does the new license term interact with medical requirements? For the more...ahem...experienced among us, will we still need to get a physical to stay current when our license has not expired?

[RussMcB]

This is the first time I've heard about a multi-year license. Was this in a recent FastTrack or announcement?

[farrout]

Multi year licenses have been around for about 2 years now. Of course the length of the license is somewhat limited by your time (re age) requirements for a physical.

In SEDIV, we are doing one sanction for a "Regional or National" weekend. We are still doing our Regional - SARRC - series and also an alternate path to the Runoffs - SECS (aka National to use the old terminology). The general plan is to do a Qualifying race on Saturday and the full race on Sunday. Both will count for Series points.

[RussMcB]

Thanks, Craig.

I just filled out my renewal form last week and didn't notice anything on it about multiple years.

[iamuwere]

I just did mine too and nothing about multiyear on it. Funny.

[farrout]

Yea - there is nothing on that in the renewal paperwork that they send you. I had to call Membership and ask what the cost would be. That seemed kind of stupid not to offer it in the renewal paperwork.

Since I am in the 2 year medical age group, I only renewed for a 2 year period. If I managed to flunk my next medical, then I would not ray to renew the competition license.

[butch deer]

Multi year licenses have been around for about 2 years now. Of course the length of the license is somewhat limited by your time (re age) requirements for a physical.

In SEDIV, we are doing one sanction for a "Regional or National" weekend. We are still doing our Regional - SARRC - series and also an alternate path to the Runoffs - SECS (aka National to use the old terminology). The general plan is to do a Qualifying race on Saturday and the full race on Sunday. Both will count for Series points.

Are you running both regional only and national classes on these weekends?

[Fred Michael]

Multi year options were on the license application I downloaded.

[farrout]

Are you running both regional only and national classes on these weekends?

Some races are doubles some are not. Our race at Barber on Labor Day will be a double SARRC/SECS. Racers have to designate which series they are running when they register, no double dipping. Can do SARRC one day and SECS the other.

We are running all GCR and Regional classes.

[Steve Demeter]

So if I read earlier posts correctly, all that is needed to renew a full competition license is one weekend a year?

[Tigaman]

I *AM* sure that SCCA is currently bending over backwards to let ANYONE with a 'decent sniff' of racing be able to participate at whatever level they choose... as long as it looks like they might be competent.

IOW --- if you have reasonable racing experience (several races without undue 'incident'), then you should always ask for a waiver from your divisional licensing steward if you didn't fullfill the GCR obligations. - MOST of the time, it will be granted. We WANT people to race and we NEED entries at the events

Steve, FV80

Agree with this. As the Regional Licensing Chair for NCR, I can say that Toni Creighton and the National Office have done everything they can do to help with waivers for past participation and from other recognized competition venues. Thank you!

[GT1Vette]

So if I read earlier posts correctly, all that is needed to renew a full competition license is one weekend a year?

Correct. It's now more difficult to GET a full competition license (school plus three weekends) than it was a regional license, but once you have one you can retain it by successfully completing one weekend a year (same as the old regional license).

[EYERACE]

ok, I'm stupid (or someone else is).......example......it's called a double SARRC weekend in the past.....at Daytona in August.......someone pays an entry for both Saturday and Sunday and runs and finishes both days....I guess they used to get credit for two different "races".......but now they only get credit for one .......right Butch???? go ahead, spell it out - assume eye'm stupid Butch.......but put it in plain English please Butch.......and think at the same time we'd all maybe (eh, maybe not.......after all there are a LOT of organiztions that rent tracks these days) like to keep our shoestring budgets such that we maintain an SCCA license.......which often we don't need just to race our old cars with those "others"

[Peter Olivola]

Reel it in, dude. There are more moving parts in the Club Racing firmament than any time since I joined (you can find out how long that is in the survey thread.) This is a classic case of unintended consequences and there are any number of people in official positions working on it. The convention starts this week and I would expect something will come out of it that will get at least part way to sorting this out.

Change is never easy and seldom smooth. The alternative was a slow death. I much prefer a little uncertainty to that.

ok, I'm stupid (or someone else is).......example......it's called a double SARRC weekend in the past.....at Daytona in August.......someone pays an entry for both Saturday and Sunday and runs and finishes both days....I guess they used to get credit for two different "races".......but now they only get credit for one .......right Butch???? go ahead, spell it out - assume eye'm stupid Butch.......but put it in plain English please Butch.......and think at the same time we'd all maybe (eh, maybe not.......after all there are a LOT of organiztions that rent tracks these days) like to keep our shoestring budgets such that we maintain an SCCA license.......which often we don't need just to race our old cars with those "others"

[RussMcB]

To answer Eyerace's question (assuming it was sincere), I think the answer is, it doesn't matter if they call a double weekend a single race or two because now you only need one race per year to renew your license.

Sounds good, I guess. There have been a few times in the past where I've needed a waiver because I didn't meet the minimum requirements. This new lower requirement should make waivers much less needed. It will also be nice not having to hunt down several sanction numbers from the previous race year. :-)

[farrout]

When you see a double SARRC or SECS race weekend, consider the terminology unique to the SEDIV race series. The weekends will be run under a single sanction but they will generate two points events (Saturday and Sunday races) for the SARRC or SECS series. Times and finishing positions will be reported for both races.

[gt5racer]

If I share my car with my son at a double regional, he races on Saturday, and I race on Sunday, do we both get credit for the weekend? Full credit, half credit, no credit??

[GT1Vette]

"Successful completion" of a weekend means you are not a DNS or DNF for at least one race during that event. If two drivers share a car at a double weekend and both finish at least one race, both will get credit for that weekend.

[Dave SanF 50]

One of the important benefits for the regions is that with only one sanction number, there is only ONE sanction fee. The region can hold a double race weekend and charge for two races but only has to pay National the one sanction fee.

[farrout]

One of the important benefits for the regions is that with only one sanction number, there is only ONE sanction fee. The region can hold a double race weekend and charge for two races but only has to pay National the one sanction fee.

As a race organizer and race/Region treasurer and driver in a small Region, whether there are 2 races or one race on a weekend does not determine our entry fee. What baselines the entry fee is our ability to at least break even on the event. SCCA Regions may be non-profit but getting $10 per member from SCCA membership dues does not cover the expenses of just being an active Region. Continually losing money on a race or any event means that the event ceases to happen. Expenses (track rental, scales, workers, worker lunches, SCCA insurance/sanction/entrant fees, ambulance/wreckers, Sound, T&S, etc) are all pretty set even if you do a bare bones budget (the level at which expenses can go no lower). Compare that with your expected/historical entry levels and the entry fee amount gets determined. Certainly it can become a downward spiral. Less entries means higher entry fees which can mean less entries - continue that thought until the race ceases to exist.

[Bob Coury]

Did the SCCA clarify any of this yet??? Somebody mentioned that there was to be a meeting in April.

2 year license = how many races per year or 2 year time period?

Does 1 race on a sat that has a stand alone sanction # count as 1 weekend?

Does racing on Sat and Sun the same weekend with separate sanction numbers cover the 2 year requirement?

Update: I sent a message directly to the board-I will post the response.

[Bob Coury]

Is the one weekend per year requirement to renew your license per calendar year? Or is it based on your license anniversary date?

Also, my license is good thu Oct 2016. My physical expires this year. Do I just send in a new physical form? Or do I renew for another 2 or 3 years?

I looked in the GCR and don't see the answer.

Thanks
Bob

[Steve Davis]

Bob,
If your license is good till 2016, then it's GOOD TILL 2016. Even us guys over 65 can get a 2 year license these days. I think over 70 requires a physical every year ..but that is subject to change too.

These days, SCCA is after DRIVERS that are willing to PAY THE FEE.. and hopefully ENTER EVENTS. The physical requirements are based on age, tho' I can't recall the age at which you can get a THREE year license . .other than that I am PAST that age .

If at any point, you fail (for whatever reason) to complete the required number of races, DO contact your Division Licensing Administrator and ask for a waiver ... if you want one. They are usually granted. I have heard of drivers that haven't turned a wheel in 20 years getting waived to a FULL COMPETITION license .. just for asking. It would depend on just how much previous experience you have, of course. If you never got out of driver's schools, don't expect much of a waiver. However, if you raced for 10 years and then laid out for 20 .. you still have FAR MORE experience than anyone that has never raced.

I believe that this is "grey" in the GCR to give the Licensing Administrators quite a bit of leeway for waivers.

[Bob Coury]

Thanks Steve.

I had 1 or 2 waivers several years ago when we were required to have more races per year.

During the last one I was cautioned that maybe it will be the last. Juts don't want to abuse the system.

One child graduated from HS this year, and between that and all the college related stuff and work, time or money has been at a premium. The sad thing is I have a track 25 min from my house, and every time there is a race there, it always seems to have a conflict with some other life event.

Thanks
Bob