Formula Ford Hoosier tires

[PDM075]

Hey gang...

New to the chassis, but not to the game...

Trying to figure out WHICH tires to run on a 1984 Van Diemen FF for Auto-X, and talking to Tim at Hoosier and he's trying to sell the new FF Radial. Any feedback as to how they work for MY application ? (Autox no track use)


Also, Hoosier has discontinued tires still available.

What is wrong with those tires ?
(43128 front 20.5 x 6.0-13 and 43309 F1600 22.5 x 7.2-13 rears.) Price is good, and I know they are last year's stock but I'm just learning this car and not going to Nationals yet.

They also have hand cut rain tires for sale - (F2000 fronts) 20.5x7.0r13 Anything wrong with running all same sized tires all around on a Ford in the rain ?


don

[Albatross]

The last years tires the dealer has in stock are probably as good if not better than "last years tires" that your competitors WILL be using.

The hand cut rains (F-2000) type AND using the same size all-around will probably be o.k. However, tire pressures will be very important. Ask one of your competitors what tire pressures he(she) will be using. You will have to experiment knowing that tire pressures are critical to YOUR car and driver style. ALSO, car set-up by using soft settings on your anti-roll bar(s) or even full disconnect of both roll bars should be considered. So, too, softer settings on your shocks should be considered when wet conditions exist. Good luck. You will have much fun experimenting and searching for the correct set-ups for your wet conditions. Most every competitor will have their favorite setting. Some will be helpful others will not be-especially when you start beating them.

[Brian C in Az]

Would the F1600 compound work for you?

I have 2 sets that I don't need and would like to sell?

[greghagan]

Don,

Hoosier makes tire in different compounds. Most autocrossers want the softest tire they can get. For a Hoosier that word be an R25B compound. These are very sticky and produce the biggest grins.

IIRC the F1600 series uses the R45B. It is a little harder compound tire that is most suited for road racing. They would last a very long time if you just autocross. Maybe forever

So, if you want to kick butt, get the R25B. If you just want to have fun learning the car and the price is right, then get em and just drive that dang thing.

Have fun.

Greg

[Lynn]

The most commonly used tires for autocross are 20.5 x 7.0 x 13 fronts and 22.5 x 7.2 x 13 rears. Compound is R25B.

[PDM075]

thanx everyone for your input.

Spoke to Tim again at Hoosier and it appears the rear they have are all the R45 compound, which may work on super hot days with 2 drivers - but considering I'm running without a co-driver this year, I'm likely better to stick to the R25B compound.

The F1600 Radials are actually the older A6 (Auto-x compound) that is supposed to heat up fast, but last longer with more consistant lap times.

My concern is it's not likely anyone in C Mod has stepped up to the plate yet and tested the new F1600 Radials, even though the track guys are breaking records while testing with the new tire. My concern is will these new Radials heat up as fast as the tried and true R25B compound ? Any "ballers" wanna buy a set to test ??


Question for anyone that moved up from 6" fronts to 7"s.....how did that affect your cars auto-xing ? Reduce push, ? Increase spring rate up front ?


don

[Lynn]

I have just acquired my Reynard. New bias ply tires are going on today. Any further tire purchases will involve wets and wheels for them. No money for testing radials.

[Barry Ott]

I have just acquired my Reynard. ...

Very Cool!!!!

Don,
Welcome to CM! Thanks for all the info! I've been tempted to try the new radials, and a couple different compounds of Avons. Honestly, it feels like the Top CM guys (I'm looking in from the outside ) have an unspoken gentlemens agreement to run the R25B Bias ply tires and see who's fastest on the "spec" tire. There's a lot to like about the tire and the Company Of course, you're certainly welcome to try something different!

[-pru-]

I've been tempted to try the new radials, and a couple different compounds of Avons. Honestly, it feels like the Top CM guys (I'm looking in from the outside ) have an unspoken gentlemens agreement to run the R25B Bias ply tires and see who's fastest on the "spec" tire. There's a lot to like about the tire and the Company Of course, you're certainly welcome to try something different!

Barry,

I considered testing both the Avon bias as well as the Hoosier FF1600 radial at some point in 2014 but postponed that idea when Hoosier released the R25B A2500 early in the year. That is, the R25B C2500 was such a good tire that we wanted to give the A2500 a try first.

A year later and we are still no closer to trying an alternative to R25B A2500; we're optimizing the car around this tire and I don't want to start over right now! We'll keep any eye open to the efforts of others and adjust accordingly.

I am sure someone will eventually give the FF Avon bias a try (Johnny Billingsley / John Whitling have experimented with the non-FF Avon on their SoloVee with mixed results).

From what I've heard, the Hoosier FF1600 radial will be more problematic for older cars due to the amount of camber that needs to be run. That said, the fact that the FF1660 radial is the old A6 compound is encouraging.

Interesting times...

Take care,

[Barry Ott]

Barry,

I considered testing both the Avon bias as well as the Hoosier FF1600 radial at some point in 2014 but postponed that idea when Hoosier released the R25B A2500 early in the year. That is, the R25B C2500 was such a good tire that we wanted to give the A2500 a try first.

A year later and we are still no closer to trying an alternative to R25B A2500; we're optimizing the car around this tire and I don't want to start over right now! We'll keep any eye open to the efforts of others and adjust accordingly.

I am sure someone will eventually give the FF Avon bias a try (Johnny Billingsley / John Whitling have experimented with the non-FF Avon on their SoloVee with mixed results).

From what I've heard, the Hoosier FF1600 radial will be more problematic for older cars due to the amount of camber that needs to be run. That said, the fact that the FF1660 radial is the old A6 compound is encouraging.

Interesting times...

Take care,

EXACTLY! That Pru dude is all right!!

It seems like we could test tires and maybe find a faster and/or longer lasting option, which would perturb competition for a couple years until everybody adopts the new tire, then we're back where we are today, on a "spec" tire. Potentially, everyone would benefit from a "better" tire in the long run but things are pretty darn good now so it's hard to find the motivation to try new tires for an unknown improvement.

Personally, I really want to win another championship but not by being on a better tire, I want it to be because I set up my car well and I drove well for a couple days Of course, they don't put an asterisk by your name in the rule book saying "won on better tires"

Thanks to all for the comments!
Barry

[S Lathrop]

The new Hoosier radial is an excellent tire. Probably the best thing to come along for
FF in years. For auto-ross these tires might last years.

The issue for some, maybe most cars will the big increase in diameter of the front tires. They are a minimum of 1 inch larger in diameter. The change in front geometry when the car is lowered to the previous ride height may not desirable. The gains from a better tire may be lost with an adverse effect on the front suspension geometry.

[andyllc]

I am now a fan of the new pro series tire. The Spectrum guys were on their 12th heat cycle in Q1 at VIR and had a new set for Q2. Anyone can look at the times and see some important info with that. I ran them as well and was amazed at the grip and the consistency. These tires are not going to be 'slow' like some worried about the Toyo and I think they will have a life cycle that is just about as long.
I don't think the Toyo is necessarily a bad option but until that tire is mandated I will run the new pro series tire.

[Steve Bamford]

I am now a fan of the new pro series tire. The Spectrum guys were on their 12th heat cycle in Q1 at VIR and had a new set for Q2. Anyone can look at the times and see some important info with that. I ran them as well and was amazed at the grip and the consistency. These tires are not going to be 'slow' like some worried about the Toyo and I think they will have a life cycle that is just about as long.
I don't think the Toyo is necessarily a bad option but until that tire is mandated I will run the new pro series tire.

The issue I see with the tire is that it was designed for FF racing however the tire doesn't work on many of the FF cars. Ask the Swift guys which was more then half the field at the Road Atlanta March Major.

I am happier running the new tire on my car compared to the previous Pro Series tire as the previous tire was only good for a few heat cycles before a noticeable drop off.

Also the tires do have a drop off which I would not race with 8 or so heat cycle tires. The drop off is not near as quick as the previous tire.

Too bad the entire field can't use this tire.

[John Robinson II]

The issue I see with the tire is that it was designed for FF racing however the tire doesn't work on many of the FF cars. Ask the Swift guys .

Really? what is the problem? there is more of a problem with the last generation of pro tires not being even on the rim and having to measure before leaving the tire guys.

[Steve Bamford]

Really? what is the problem? there is more of a problem with the last generation of pro tires not being even on the rim and having to measure before leaving the tire guys.

From what I understand, as I am sure many have already read, getting the amount of recommended camber from Hoosier is the main issue.

[John Robinson II]

From what I understand, as I am sure many have already read, getting the amount of recommended camber from Hoosier is the main issue.

not an issue with the fast forward uprights. probably cant do it with the original cast ones. front is easy, rear needs new top piece of upright. Doug made me some when we were going to do the swift in the pro series.
actually, now that I thought it about it more, Nick makes rear arms that use rod ends and probably could do both ends by adjusting the bottom a-arm lengths.

[Steve Bamford]

not an issue with the fast forward uprights. probably cant do it with the original cast ones. front is easy, rear needs new top piece of upright. Doug made me some when we were going to do the swift in the pro series.
actually, now that I thought it about it more, Nick makes rear arms that use rod ends and probably could do both ends by adjusting the bottom a-arm lengths.

That's all good info as I don't think many others know that. Hopefully that is all it will take and cars will work well on them. Thanks for the info John.

[problemchild]

It is a PITA but will be worth savings going forward. We had to change pieces on our Mygales and some Mygales are not running their desired settings in order to get the camber (cannot do both). A thousand dollars in mods, however, is not a huge expense to someone who is campaigning a serious FF effort ...... BUT ..... if a set of tires is also a thousand dollars, you're ahead by the time you are not buying your 3rd set of tires. Finding a way to add 1/2" to the bottom A-arms on your FF should not be difficult or expensive. Perhaps an 1/8th or 1/4 will be enough for some. For many, being short a degree of front camber (to the optimum) will make no difference to their performance.

[Dennis Valet]

And if all else fails, I hear a quick rub against an outside wall will give you the camber you need

[John Robinson II]

And if all else fails, I hear a quick rub against an outside wall will give you the camber you need

Dennis,
I find that technique usually adds caster, toe out and positive camber
and a thinner wallet!

[fitfan]

i have two used sets of FF autoX hoosiers - pm for details, compounds etc... (take offs as i converted the car for road) if your interested in that.

-Rod

[Tim Webb]

Overwhelming desire to run the Toyo or other Street tire. Lots want to run the same tire as what is run in Canada, but we are going down the rabbit trail with a new expensive Hoosier.

When will folks learn.

[problemchild]

Overwhelming desire to run the Toyo or other Street tire. Lots want to run the same tire as what is run in Canada, but we are going down the rabbit trail with a new expensive Hoosier.

When will folks learn.

Hoosier decided they would serve their customer base my building a durable racing tire rather than play the street tire game. It was their decision to make. The consumer will ultimately decide the direction they wish to support.

The good news is ..... we seem to be on a course to eliminate 10 different sizes and compounds ..... and have a choice between one size of durable racing tires ..... and one size of durable street tires. While not the perfect world that many were seeking, it should be a big improvement over the current situation.

If I never see a FF with front tires on the rear again, it will be too soon!

[Dennis Valet]

Dennis,
I find that technique usually adds caster, toe out and positive camber
and a thinner wallet!

I think I need to refine my technique if I'm only getting one suspension adjustment and you're getting three in one shot.

[John Robinson II]

Overwhelming desire to run the Toyo or other Street tire. Lots want to run the same tire as what is run in Canada, but we are going down the rabbit trail with a new expensive Hoosier.

When will folks learn.

have you spoken to any of the top competitors in the Canadian series? I have and there are very mixed emotions about the tire. the only thing that stays consistent is "well, we HAVE to run them."

more importantly, there is NOTHING preventing you from running the toyo or whatever street tire you want to run.

[problemchild]

have you spoken to any of the top competitors in the Canadian series? I have and there are very mixed emotions about the tire. the only thing that stays consistent is "well, we HAVE to run them."

more importantly, there is NOTHING preventing you from running the toyo or whatever street tire you want to run.

Say what?
Asking "arrive n drive kids", whose parents are spending $12-15K per weekend, what they think of the tires would not seem directly applicable to club racing. Any negativity to the Toyos in Canada seems pretty underground.

I'm not pushing one or the other, but again, feel obligated to bring a realistic perspective.

[John Robinson II]

Say what?
Asking "arrive n drive kids", whose parents are spending $12-15K per weekend, what they think of the tires would not seem directly applicable to club racing. Any negativity to the Toyos in Canada seems pretty underground.

I'm not pushing one or the other, but again, feel obligated to bring a realistic perspective.

I did not speak to any of the kids, only experienced drivers that would know what they are talking about. And paying the bill themselves.

[BURKY]

I did not speak to any of the kids, only experienced drivers that would know what they are talking about. And paying the bill themselves.

Yep, you never know who will show up in Florida.

apparently it gets cold... up north.

[andyllc]

In regards to the camber issue....don't the Toyo's also run a bunch of camber like the new pro series tire? It seems like being against one or the other for that reason would be moot since they both run a bunch of camber.

[Tim Webb]

JRII:

Yes. I did speak directly to the folks in Canada while at Mosport for the PWC round last year. All of the teams I spoke with loved the tire and the folks footing the bill liked them even more.

It was also evident that the older cars were competitive on the Toyo.

[problemchild]

In regards to the camber issue....don't the Toyo's also run a bunch of camber like the new pro series tire? It seems like being against one or the other for that reason would be moot since they both run a bunch of camber.

No.