Accidents and insurance

[lmpdesigner]

Maybe not a topic we want to discuss but as I had a bad off a couple of years ago I have a personal interest in this.

After the accident I had a lot of trouble from my insurance company as I got hurt doing an activity that they do not cover for. They said they do not cover injuries from auto racing, stunt plane flying, cave diving, basically any "extreme" sport. However none of this is clear in any paperwork I had ever seen. Response was you need to read thru the entire contract. Issue is insurance comes form work and I have no choice in what I get. That is from differing insurance companies. And I had the most expensive, fullest coverage I could get from my company plan.

My issue-and I dealt with it but it begs the question: Has any body actually checked with their insurance company over this? I mean are we all racing without proper (any) actual coverage? The sanctioning body would only cover a certain amount-suppose to be "gap" coverage-between what your insurance covers and what you owe. But found out that, if you don't have any coverage from insurance company then you have no gap coverage either.

So what do you all do? Do you have extra insurance? Like AFLAC or something? Do you just assume your insurance covers you? Have you actually checked? Does anybody out there have any other experiences to talk about?

In the end my company insurance paid for a bunch but then increased our entire company cost by 17%!! Said to my boss-you can see this drop back by exempting (firing!) me!!

So I am just wondering? How do we deal with this? Given way health car is going in USA It may be just that none of us can go racing as nobody will cover us!

[Brian C in Az]

I thought from reading the thread by/about Brian331 that the SCCA covered most if not all of his medical costs. I'm curious about Eyerace's experience in this matter. Hopefully they both will tell us their experiences.
It is a matter that we all ignore and hope that it does not happen to anyone; especially ourselves.

[lmpdesigner]

Was not SCCA.

[EYERACE]

Was not SCCA.

This can make all the difference. I get the impression many nonSCCA simply let you rely on your own health insurance.....which I guess could have exclusion clauses. more later

[BLS]

Was not SCCA.

What was it?

[Brian331]

Not sure who you were racing with, but it's time to join the SCCA! My bad racing accident on 6/8/12, in which I obtained a bad TBI, has been covered 100% by the SCCA insurance. I always knew racing was dangerous, so I just excepted that! Then my accident happened My accident instantly knocked me out, and left me in a 23 day long coma! Before my dad even left LRP, someone came over and gave him a insurance card. That person told my dad that it was good for 3 years, or up to a million dollars, whichever came first! That insurance has paid 100% of every bill, right down to the co-pay.

If it wasn't for that insurance company (Ace, out of Texas) then I would have been screwed! I never knew that the SCCA would cover any injury, so that's why I always excepted that racing was dangerous, or something that I wanted to do!! My bad brain injury, that I'm still healing from, is still covered until 6/8/15 of this year!

If anybody can learn anything from my accident, it's that their in good hands with the SCCA!

Any other questions? Just ask!

Former FF#31 Brian

[Josh Pitt]

when this issue of coverage came up for me I researched the clubs and the policies they offered to the racers included with their entrance fee.

turned out that scca and pro autosports had very good coverages, $1Million.

HSR, the vintage club that I ran with did not, it was $50K, which is useless with the cost of a trip to the hospital for anything.

it did factor into my decision on where to race, but only after seeing some bad things happen to "someone else", more than once. it became harder for me to justify the(financial) risk to my wife

racing is supposed to be fun, it would be hard to explain to my family that my fun just cost them their college education, or nice house etc...........

I was hurt racing motorcycles years ago and I found out that my insurance company(blue cross blue shield) would NOT cover me for any incident on the racetrack. I found out after the fact of making the claim, and being honest about what happened.

bottom line is that the policy included with the entry fees is a huge deal(when you need it).

make good choices on who you race with is the key.
Josh

[tstrong]

Yes, for all the things we complain about that SCCA does not do well, they are the world class standard for insurance coverage. Could be due to the litigation happy environment we live in.

[Jnovak]

I had a serious accident in 1986 at Road Atlanta. Broken ankle, leg and serious knee damage that later required surgery. I never paid a penny. The SCCA insurance covered it all. Thanks SCCA.

I do not know what the SCCA insurance is like now though.

[Daryl DeArman]

Not to worry....sooner rather than later Obamacare will require health insurance to not exclude any activities. Therefore, whether you skydive, are a circus performer or like to go jogging in Pamplona July 6th, you will be covered.

Whether we participate in those activities or not our premiums will increase to cover things we will never need.

[mousecatcher]

50% of the population does not need prenatal coverage either.

[Tiago Santos]

Yup, insurance should only cover things you can foresee in your future. Seems logical.

[Brian C in Az]

50% of the population does not need prenatal coverage either.

More like 80%, maybe even higher.

[TimH]

Ah, but we all need child dental coverage.

[EYERACE]

One thing you must understand are the boxes on something referred to as a HCFA claim form....maybe now the government calls that form something else. There is a box for 'auto accident' which means the public roads....that is not the box to check with a racing accident on track....it took a buddy of mine 2 years to get everything cleared up from Daytona because that mistake was made. There is a box for "accident other" and that's the box to check.

I understood the SCCA insurance to work this way because 4 1/2 years ago this is how it went.......> your health ins. is primary [80% or whatever based on the terms] with SCCA covering as a sort of "AFLAC" thing secondary [20%] and also all your primary's copays, deductibles, non-covered, etc. Apparently if you had no health insurance policy, then SCCA covers everything

The SCCA "health" policy will work for two years because if you're still laid up after 2 years you will be eligible for Medicare Disability status so there's no need for further SCCA.

The SCCA also did pay a small amount a month to me, after I forget how short a time frame from the date of injury, as a disability policy until I was dismissed by the neurosurgeon.

[Dave Harmison]

I was sitting back hoping this wouldn't devolve into a healthcare flame, and since it hasn't, I'll share.

Interesting that Jay Novak seems to indicate almost the exact opposite, yet happy, outcome, even though we both work(ed) for Ford Motor Co.

When I had my big shunt in Memorial Day 2009 and spent two nights in the neurological ward due to the concussion, my primary health insurance covered it all and SCCA picked up any co-pays. Unless somehow my healthcare back-charged SCCA in some way I was not informed about.

I did have to argue with the lady from my healthcare insurer that, "No, I don't care what box the lady at the admitting desk checked off, this is NOT an auto accident. It is a sporting accident". It took quite a few minutes of slow talking and trying to come up with examples that she would understand to convince her that Roger Penske, Jeff Gordon, et. al. don't put racing accidents on their auto policy.

Very similar to a discussion I had with a county sheriff after a coworker had a shunt at a test track and had to be transported. "No officer, this is NOT an auto accident that you write up and goes against his driving record. This is an industrial accident on private property."

That's how it worked for me so far, but I have recently become aware that there may be ways that the law still considers these traffic accidents. As a great man said, "You don't go to court to get justice, you get law and they aren't necessarily the same thing."

[racerdad2]

Great info. Thx. Details matter.

[GAC]

FYI, when there are discussions about what different clubs charge for entry fees, and questions are asked about why other clubs can charge less than SCCA, insurance is the primary difference in the cost.

[EYERACE]

As I understand it.....some Friday "test days" associated with an SCCA weekend event are put on by the SCCA and some "test days" are put on by the tracks. The SCCA test day will have SCCA insurance in place to the best of my knowledge.

[Brian C in Az]

FYI, when there are discussions about what different clubs charge for entry fees, and questions are asked about why other clubs can charge less than SCCA, insurance is the primary difference in the cost.

Not quite accurate, in another thread on Apex, they are trying to get 25 open wheel guys signed up for a track rental. The SCCA insurance part is $58 per driver. Not a big enough difference when discussing $250 per day differences in entry fees.

[cory mcleod]

In reference to the original post, I request confirmation from my employer's HR department every 2 years, or more frequently if they switch insurance carriers, that I am covered if injured or die while participating in amateur auto racing. I print/file the response e-mail and also forward it to my wife, so she has a copy.

Coincidentally, I asked for the confirmation 3 days ago, and for the first time (worked here for 11 years), one of the policies has a "dangerous activities" exclusion. So the company-provided AD&D policy would not pay if I died while racing. Not bad, since the medical, company-paid life, supplemental life, STD, and LTD policies will still cover me.

If the medical, life, and/or LTD policies had exclusions, I would have to seriously reassess the financial risk of my racing. I am thankful every day that for as long as I've raced (20 years), I've worked for companies that have full benefits packages. Seems to be getting less and less common in the age of Obamacare.

Cory

[Albatross]

Anybody racing in the great NorthWest care to comment on the insurance policies as they relate to OUR racing?

[mousecatcher]

I've worked for companies that have full benefits packages. Seems to be getting less and less common in the age of Obamacare.

Either unfair or uninformed. In the age of obamacare, health care costs have risen the least in the last 15 years. (Also meaning benefits have been stripped the least.)

The fact that you have to work at all to have decent health coverage is the item worth your scorn.

[tdf4golf]

when this issue of coverage came up for me I researched the clubs and the policies they offered to the racers included with their entrance fee.

turned out that scca and pro autosports had very good coverages, $1Million.

HSR, the vintage club that I ran with did not, it was $50K, which is useless with the cost of a trip to the hospital for anything.

it did factor into my decision on where to race, but only after seeing some bad things happen to "someone else", more than once. it became harder for me to justify the(financial) risk to my wife

racing is supposed to be fun, it would be hard to explain to my family that my fun just cost them their college education, or nice house etc...........

I was hurt racing motorcycles years ago and I found out that my insurance company(blue cross blue shield) would NOT cover me for any incident on the racetrack. I found out after the fact of making the claim, and being honest about what happened.

bottom line is that the policy included with the entry fees is a huge deal(when you need it).

make good choices on who you race with is the key.
Josh

I imagine that membership in the SCCA and racing in a SCCA event is covered. My question is; Is you insurance coverage tied to being a member or paying to compete in a SCCA event. In essence would SCCA membership cover you in a non-sanctioned event?

[BLS]

In essence would SCCA membership cover you in a non-sanctioned event?

No. SCCA insurance is a per event coverage.

[cory mcleod]

Either unfair or uninformed. In the age of obamacare, health care costs have risen the least in the last 15 years. (Also meaning benefits have been stripped the least.)

The fact that you have to work at all to have decent health coverage is the item worth your scorn.

Thanks for the misinformation, comrade. You've been trained well in the art of using an unrelated fact to refute an argument. How about giving us info on:

1. the number of companies that are converting part time positions to full time positions with benefits, rather than the opposite.

2. the number of companies that are adding medical coverage to their employee benefits, rather than dumping them.

I scorn that our country is headed full speed toward mediocrity for all.

[Offcamber1]

But when I do, I race SCCA.

All joking aside, there is in my opinion much to criticise with SCCA and in fact I have been in and out of the SCCA more times than Van Halen has had lead singers. BUT, when there is a car with numbers in the garage, I join SCCA and race in their sanctioned events because of the stellar insurance coverage. Other sanctioning bodies are tempting sometimes, but I can't justify the potential financial risk of racing with them. What's a few extra $$ in entry fees when compared with the potential of financial ruin?

Kudos to SCCA Risk Management.

Kip

[mousecatcher]

Thanks for the misinformation, comrade. You've been trained well in the art of using an unrelated fact to refute an argument.

ah, your "no, look over here" style of arguing, combined with indirect ad hominem is quite good! Just the thing to get everyone to dust off the pitchforks!! Well done!! I bow to your superior technique.

My facts are in fact directly related to the implied argument, which is that obamacare is the cause of continued benefits reduction in health insurance.

How about giving us info on:

1. the number of companies that are converting part time positions to full time positions with benefits, rather than the opposite.

Indeed, more companies are converting full time to part time, partly in order to strip benefits from employees. Now, how is that related to obamacare? The phenomenon has indeed been studied, and surveyed, and it is the case that this downsizing would have happened anyway. It is a fault of growing inequality, which is growing the top and bottom but squeezing the middle. And this is going on in a growing economy.

Without obamacare, employer's costs to provide healthcare were rising incredibly fast, well well above inflation. With obamacare, they still are rising too fast, but the rate is actually less.

What you fail to argue is how many MORE companies would be converting full time positions to part time if not for obamacare, and furthermore where those part time people (and those under 26) would be.

Most bankruptcies these days (and I don't know how long this has been the case) are medical bankruptcies. And most of those are from folks that HAVE (or HAD) COVERAGE. One of the great things of obamacare was abolishing lifetime caps on coverage.

That said, obamacare is still lacking in my book, but not for the reasons that folks willing to pull out the communist card will complain about.

I scorn that our country is headed full speed toward mediocrity for all.

Absolutely not. The 1% are headed full speed towards the .1%, and the currently mediocre are losing ground even faster. Well, I refer to household wealth. If you mean mediocrity in areas like critical thinking, self important behavior (eg anti-vax), civic awareness, then yes I agree.

[Brian C in Az]

Indeed, more companies are converting full time to part time, partly in order to strip benefits from employees. Now, how is that related to obamacare?

When Obamacare was initially passed, EVERY non liberal financial expert and insurance expert predicted that due to the excessive costs on business from the Obamacare law, that millions of people would see their full time jobs converted to part time jobs of under 32 hours per week so that the employer could avoid the potential financial ruin that those costs would cause.
Not one expert on TV or in the news said that the new law would not have that effect; other than the liberal spin doctors.

[racerdad2]

IF you really want to lower health care costs get rid of health insurance. Talk with the many MD's who have dropped out of the health insurance system and their clients to verify how much they are saving.

We pay insurance companies big premiums to deny us coverage while they refuse to pay the MD's what they're due, all the while charging the MD's for liability, work comp & malpractice insurance.

Health care is a personal responsibility, not a 'right'.

Life, Liberty & the PURSUIT of Happiness

And one more myth to bust. All men are NOT created equal. If you have your doubts, go racing !

LOVE & PEACE !

[La Scuderia Raggi]

To get back to the core subject matter.

The American Motorcycle Association has been fighting this discriminatory policy of excluding certain sports and activities from medical coverage. In fact, Congress passed a law that such exclusions were not allowable. So get this, when the details of the law were written by "someone" who actually writes the words, this provision of the law was left out. The AMA has been spending a lot of time and effort to get this corrected.

I had contacted my Congressman about this (McNearny, CA. D) and he was aware of it and working to get it changed. Then the era of the do-nothing/we're not compromising/but we'll take our salary anyway Congress began.

[BLS]

Then the era of the do-nothing/we're not compromising/but we'll take our salary anyway Congress began.

Wow. You must be really old.