SEDIV Tire "Rule"

[Raceworks]

Yes, it's yet another tire thread. There's what, a dozen or so at this point?

This one's a bit narrower in scope, and maybe it's less a rules thread and more a proposal for competition for 2015 regardless of what national does.

How about we either try to lobby SEDIV, or at the very least try to maintain a "gentleman's agreement" for races in the division at least at the SARRC and regional level? Possibly SECS as well?

If we did, what do we want to go for? A spec tire, or at least a minimum compound hardness?

I'd be happy to leave at nothing softer than the R45 compound hoosier and R430 goodyear (which IIRC is equivalent)? I'd have to admit conflict of interest here because I know I can pick up the old R45 compound pro series tires at fire-sale rates in February.

Or is everyone willing to run the R60 "club ford" tires?

[SEComposites]

Based on the support for the Toyo ARRC race i'd vote for the Toyo. A regional treaded tire series would be great!

[Brian C in Az]

Based upon the results of the poll, I think there is enough support for you to start a series on the Toyo tires. SEComposites already has one treaded tire event organized.

[Swift17]

Threaded tires ...sorry NO/Nope no interest in a new development project .........

BUT I am behind R60s --- count me and several South Florida FF Drivers (based upon our last informal and in person poll) as in !!!

EJ

[Garey Guzman]

While I would love to get this going immediately, what's the rule going to be for the Runoffs? I hope to make my first Runoffs this year and I certainly can't afford to develop in multiple directions, especially after being out for the last 5 years recovering from the financial distress of becoming single again.

[swiftdrivr]

Garey,
Just a thought: How many FF drivers are registered in the SARRC series? If a significant majority want a specific tire, I'd imagine SARRC could make that tire a spec tire for the runoffs. However, I'd think it would need to be a really significant majority before they would / could / should act on that.
I'd be fine with the R60s, or even the R45s as a "no setup changes" compromise / first step [I started using them 2 years ago, and cut my cost by 35-50% by running them 2 weekends per set. Yes, there is a drop off, but then, there was never a reason to expect magic, was there?]

[Raceworks]

While I would love to get this going immediately, what's the rule going to be for the Runoffs? I hope to make my first Runoffs this year and I certainly can't afford to develop in multiple directions, especially after being out for the last 5 years recovering from the financial distress of becoming single again.

I think the best answer is "I don't know." I'd suspect that as far as the Majors tour goes you're looking at 2016 soonest to get anything done by SCCA.

You might want to go for the R45's in that case. They've been what I run when I don't have old pro series tires (which are practically identical except the fronts are a little wider) and they're a decent mid-point between tire life & competitiveness. Plus like you I don't have much of a testing budget either, albeit for a totally different reason (like plunking down a pile of cash for two new FF cars).

The harder compound doesn't seem to be as much of a negative at Daytona, either.

[Garey Guzman]

My understanding is that SCCA sets the rules for the Runoffs, including the fuel, etc. With Majors starting in a couple of weeks, there is no way a tire rule change can be accomplished for the 2015 season.

Garey,
Just a thought: How many FF drivers are registered in the SARRC series? If a significant majority want a specific tire, I'd imagine SARRC could make that tire a spec tire for the runoffs. However, I'd think it would need to be a really significant majority before they would / could / should act on that.

Jim, you might be thinking of the SIC. I'm talking about the Runoffs at Daytona in 2015. I've been away from the sport for a while but I think the SIC is usually at Roebling but was moved to Daytona for 2014 only.

I think the best answer is "I don't know." I'd suspect that as far as the Majors tour goes you're looking at 2016 soonest to get anything done by SCCA.

You might want to go for the R45's in that case. They've been what I run when I don't have old pro series tires (which are practically identical except the fronts are a little wider) and they're a decent mid-point between tire life & competitiveness. Plus like you I don't have much of a testing budget either, albeit for a totally different reason (like plunking down a pile of cash for two new FF cars).

The harder compound doesn't seem to be as much of a negative at Daytona, either.

Sam, I usually use my R35s 8-12 cycles, rotating them between Practice/Q/race. I'm ok with only buying a new set for a Major weekend, which is probably what would need to happen for R45s or R60s, even if every single competitor followed a gentlmans agreement!

That said, I wouldn't go against a majority decision but I think doing anything this year won't affect getting a spec tire done for 2016.

[John Robinson II]

Sam, I usually use my R35s 8-12 cycles, rotating them between Practice/Q/race. I'm ok with only buying a new set for a Major weekend, which is probably what would need to happen for R45s or R60s, even if every single competitor followed a gentlmans agreement!

Garey,
this is exactly why a spec tire wont work. the need to buy new tires for every major weekend is what the backers are trying to stop.
my main reason for trying to win the sediv was for tow money (every little bit helps), with the runoffs at Daytona, se competitors wont be getting any.

besides, 8-12 of YOUR heat cycles is not a detriment to the tire.


John

[Raceworks]

Garey,
this is exactly why a spec tire wont work. the need to buy new tires for every major weekend is what the backers are trying to stop.

Come on John, we both know lots of people burn through more than one set of tires a majors weekend even if they don't do the test day.

If money was no object like it was for me prior to 2009 I'd be buying 2-3 sets of R25's a weekend and running on new gumballs every regional race I went to instead of going to the June Sprints on takeoffs & running multiple regional weekends on a set of tires (15 individual races on 8 weekends this year, bought 3.5 sets of tires).

I don't expect the people who insist on having stickers every weekend or every race to change their behavior unless forced to. What I do expect is that their return on investment will be severely diminished with a more consistent tire.

Plus, if the acquisition cost of a set of tires drops by 33%, I can afford to buy tires that much more often.

[Joe Henslee]

So I just returned to open wheel in FE this past OCT at VIR....WOW!...... had been 25 years since I turned wheels in FF/CF in an old Zink Z10 in SEDIV. I had already started to blow the dust off the Z10 (and myself) this summer in hopes of bringing the Z10 back to life, when the FE opp presented. Have been racing IT in a Mazda and IT/ST in a BMW since 2001, and the last 5+yrs on R888's . The prospect of a long life / consistent tire for FF is encouraging. With 5+yrs experience on the R888 Toyo's (having run RA1's, Hoosiers, Hankook's on both fendered cars), I believe the setup/transition for most will be reasonably easy to achieve in FF.
Something I have not seen in this thread(may have missed or is SO obvious) is the size choice if R888's.....I'm going to WAG 185/60R13 fronts and 205/60R13 rears. Both acceptable on our 5.5 wide wheels. Is that the going size for the folks already running R888's?
Thanks for all the enthusiasm this has generated. My current plans at least are to bring the FF car out and be ready for 15' ARRC.

Best regards, Joe Henslee
Knoxville, TN

[TimH]

I'm going to WAG 185/60R13 fronts and 205/60R13 rears. Both acceptable on our 5.5 wide wheels. Is that the going size for the folks already running R888's?

Yup.

[Garey Guzman]

Garey,
this is exactly why a spec tire wont work. the need to buy new tires for every major weekend is what the backers are trying to stop.

I absolutely agree. Although I would prefer to stay on a slick, the currently available choices will mandate new sets for a Major, if a win is the goal. Period.

besides, 8-12 of YOUR heat cycles is not a detriment to the tire.
John

As I recall, I was gaining on you before my ex went psycho. Maybe I can help you with "smooth" since you seemed to need a new set of tires more often than toothpaste!

Garey