Track Records

[Steve Davis]

... This makes more sense in some groups (i.e. cars with similar speeds) than others (say FC & FV in the same group -- in that case 120% is probably OK).

It has always been --/whatever %/-- of the --track record/pole sitter/whatever-- for the CLASS - not the group, so the classes involved have no effect (but they probably SHOULD).

On the good side of this, I know Butch and others have been pushing for THREE open wheel groups, so that one of them could be a NO WINGS group - i.e. FF, F5/6, FV. This has come to fruition in the Eastern Conference I'm told for the rest of 2014 .. as long as we put forth the numbers. I'm thinking that means we BETTER put at least 15 cars from the 3 slowest classes on the grid for each Major, or .. well.. you know... SO .. GET OUT THERE AND RACE guys!!

Steve, FV80

[budawe]

At last weekend's Major at Cal Speedway the FF, FV, F5 and FE shared the track with fairly good results. The FE folks didn't realize the effect they had on the vee races and broke up a few good battles when passing through and there was a couple of contacts made. The faster cars probably needed a bit more patience since there were large separations between the faster cars on course, I would have liked to see them wait for a straight to go by.

[Steve Davis]

Brian,
It is EXTREMELY rare for the faster car to 'wait' to pass the slower class car, even if he/she is not in a battle for position. That is the primary source of the problem - even in practice/qualifying sessions. When the faster car has WINGS, it makes it considerably worse.

You said "fairly good results" - you also said "a couple of contacts made" -- I don't consider ANY sort of contact to be "fairly good" - there is a VERY SMALL difference between 'contact' and helicopter transport....

In the quite long thread here last year, it was pretty obvious that the faster cars consider the problem to be OURS (the slower classes) and that we should simply GET OUT OF THEIR WAY - which often leads to even more problems.

Keep WINGS separate from NON-WINGS!! And also keep 1600 pound cars away from 1000 pound cars.
IOW - don't put them into the same group.

Steve, FV80

[budawe]

Steve, I don't disagree with you at all but we're all going to have to figure this out since there's no way back to single class groups. It really doesn't matter if the faster car has wings or not. It could be an Atlantic or a F5, if the driver doesn't share the track there will be problems. I think it's a matter of education on the part of all involved.

[mmi16]

Brian,
It is EXTREMELY rare for the faster car to 'wait' to pass the slower class car, even if he/she is not in a battle for position. That is the primary source of the problem - even in practice/qualifying sessions. When the faster car has WINGS, it makes it considerably worse.

You said "fairly good results" - you also said "a couple of contacts made" -- I don't consider ANY sort of contact to be "fairly good" - there is a VERY SMALL difference between 'contact' and helicopter transport....

In the quite long thread here last year, it was pretty obvious that the faster cars consider the problem to be OURS (the slower classes) and that we should simply GET OUT OF THEIR WAY - which often leads to even more problems.

Keep WINGS separate from NON-WINGS!! And also keep 1600 pound cars away from 1000 pound cars.
IOW - don't put them into the same group.

Steve, FV80

Wings and Wingless do not belong on the track at the same time - PERIOD!

[Hardingfv32]

I think it's a matter of education on the part of all involved.

And part of that education is taking someone out on the track to get the point across. The wing cars are not cheap to fix.

Brian

[Hardingfv32]

Three race groups for formula cars is going to be a failure. The value of a proper formula race groups is not going to out weigh the lose of track time by all groups. This is particularly relevant with the current 2 day dbl race schedules and constant increases of entry fees.

Brian

[Steve Davis]

Brian,
You obviously have NOT been in a car on track and had a faster car closing on you at 30+ MPH into a heavy braking corner .. over and over again.

It *IS* a big deal - especially for those on the receiving end (the slower car).
I hope you're wrong about the 'failure'.

Steve, FV80

[Tiago Santos]

And part of that education is taking someone out on the track to get the point across. The wing cars are not cheap to fix.

Brian

[Steve Bamford]

HA HA HA!!!