Ballistic evo2 16 cell lithium battery

[schuey57]

Hi All, I run a vd rf83ff2000 in the UK, thinking of running a lithium battery as car is heavy and these new generation batteries save up to 5KG!, any one used them in anger in the US?

[Dick R.]

Hi All, I run a vd rf83ff2000 in the UK, thinking of running a lithium battery as car is heavy and these new generation batteries save up to 5KG!, any one used them in anger in the US?

I've used a 16 cell Evo2 for a few years in my FF1600 used for American autocrossing. It easily handles over 2 dozen starts and 60 second long "runs".

Points and coil ignition. Race Technology DL1 and Video4. Mechanical gauges except for Stack recording tach.

I'm not impressed with the "balance charger" but that may be because I never let the battery get low enough for the balance charger to work. I use a normal automatic shutoff automotive style battery charger.

Dick

85 VD

[schuey57]

Hi dick, thanks for reply, our races typically 20 mins but nowhere as many starts, do you use a slave to crank? They say they should be used with a alternator but most formula fords run total loss system (no alternator) just wanted to get a few opinions before I take the plunge

[Dick R.]

Hi dick, thanks for reply, our races typically 20 mins but nowhere as many starts, do you use a slave to crank? They say they should be used with a alternator but most formula fords run total loss system (no alternator) just wanted to get a few opinions before I take the plunge

No "slave" (called jump batteries in the US) to crank and no alternator.

I bought mine from Pegasus in the US.

https://www.pegasusautoracing.com/pr...asp?RecID=9405

Recommended for modified motorcycle engines, large touring bikes, and smaller formula cars (FF, FC, FA) with total-loss electrical systems.

Dick

[HayesCages]

We got one of these for a customer Alfa with a 1750cc engine. Starts it every time, runs an alt though... so different from a FF or similar total loss system. After sitting for a year I charged it and it's been great since. We ran the whole 2 weekends at Monterey and COTA vintage event as well with no issues.
They have "MosFet" (a giant transistor) technology to keep you from killing them.
Come with a bespoke charger as well.
I imagine it would work very well for you though.

http://www.super-b.com/en/product/9/9/sb12v10p-dc

[DaveW]

If my car had a weight problem, I'd use that in a nanosecond!

[HazelNut]

I've been running one of these and have been happy with it. You MUST use the special charger though.

http://antigravitybatteries.com/small-case-batteries/

[HayesCages]

It was one of many things we did to drop around 200#'s off an already light-weight chassis. We were able to add a full cage to the interior rather than just a roll hoop and braces, and still be under minimum weight.
The original battery was over 40 lbs.
Cost per lb. saved was about $50. Owner didn't have a budget so it was easy.

[Modo]

The 12 cell EVO has the same or similar specs as the batteries that we use. Does anyone get by with the 12??? It's much easier on price and a little lighter. I also hear that they want 14 volts or so to recharge which my smart charger may be able to do, but with the 12 cell there are extra funds for their charger. I see above that someone get's by using a regular charger. Anyone??? ....

Tnx Dick R below!!

[Dick R.]

The 12 cell EVO has the same or similar specs as the batteries that we use. Does anyone get by with the 12??? It's much easier on price and a little lighter. I also hear that they want 14 volts or so to recharge which my smart charger may be able to do, but with the 12 cell there are extra funds for their charger. I see above that someone get's by using a regular charger. Anyone???

As noted above a regular charger works for mine. In fact I cannot get the special Ballistic charger to work anymore. I picked the 16 cell due to my use (lots of starts) and the fact that I don't like worrying about batteries.

I've monitored the charge voltage from mine and it stays below the max Ballistic recommends and since it is "automatic" it shuts off when charging is complete. Using the uncalibrated amp gauge on the charger the typical initial charge current is 4 - 5 amps when charging at home, less when charging from a 2.8kv Onan genset with the a/c running in the RV due to lower supply voltage to the charger.

For information the engine cranks much faster and starts easier than with a typical 18 Ah AGM battery (Panasonic).

Open circuit battery voltage is around 13 volts.

Running voltage per DL1 data indicates the minimum running battery voltage dropped from
about 12.7 volts to 12.6 volts after 16 autocross runs and at least 30 - 40 starts with the Race Technology Video4 2 camera system running whenever the engine was running.

[Amon]

Hazelnut,

I used one those "AntiGravity" batteries in 2012 and wasn't happy with the performance, so I went back to my prior sealed battery last year and the extra
10 pounds they weigh.

Mark

88' Citation 002

[PaulT]

Hazelnut,

I used one those "AntiGravity" batteries in 2012 and wasn't happy with the performance, so I went back to my prior sealed battery last year and the extra
10 pounds they weigh.

Mark

88' Citation 002

Can you be more specific, like model and why you weren't happy? I of course understand if you don't want to post this information on a public website.

Paul

[Amon]

Paul,

I'll have to check when I get home from work, but will be happy to do so.

Mark

[schuey57]

Im thinking of running a small volt meter which will measure the individual cells, but maybe this is ott

[BGilkes]

I used one of these batteries for all of the 2013 F2000 Series season. Unlike DW I have an exceptionally heavy Van Dieman (ok maybe some of it is the driver) and it was the 2nd cheapest way of shedding some total weight.
I started with the smaller version. It may have just been unfortunate that I had a duff battery and full credit to the supplier who I bought it off of, they refunded me the full amount and I put it towards the larger one. The larger one was probably a pound heavier but it ran without issue the rest of the season and I will be using it again for 2014. As for lifespan, I can't really comment, I used to change out the normal gel cell every two years (for me approx 9 or 10 race weekends) and will likely do the same with the Evo.
Hope this helps
Brent

[Amon]

Paul,

I checked on the "Antigravity" battery and it is a 12 Cell, 13V 360 CCA 12Ah (PbEq)
battery with a Max Charge Rate of 12amps written on it's side. I charged it with the
proper charger purchased along with the battery, however it didn't seem to hold a charge
as long as the gel-cell sealed batteries I've used and that's why I switched back. I've held
onto it as a back-up battery JIC........

Thanks!

Mark


88' Citation 002

[Dick R.]

FYI regarding holding a charge, the LiFe batteries (Ballistic, Antigravity, etc.) are "supposed" to hold a charge better than lead acid between charges. Doesn't mean they do, of course. That said my Evo2 does hold a charge. Another potential advantage of LiFe versus lead acid is that with lead acid it is important to recharge a battery asap for long life during storage. LiFe doesn't care (supposedly). Note that Li-ion cell phone and laptop batteries store best at about 40% charge.

Dick

[schuey57]

FYI regarding holding a charge, the LiFe batteries (Ballistic, Antigravity, etc.) are "supposed" to hold a charge better than lead acid between charges. Doesn't mean they do, of course. That said my Evo2 does hold a charge. Another potential advantage of LiFe versus lead acid is that with lead acid it is important to recharge a battery asap for long life during storage. LiFe doesn't care (supposedly). Note that Li-ion cell phone and laptop batteries store best at about 40% charge.

Dick

Been reading the instructions for the ballistic charger I got with the battery, it sais dont charge a full or partially discharged battery, at what point do you Charge it, it came charged and it currently reads 13.1 volts

[Dick R.]

Been reading the instructions for the ballistic charger I got with the battery, it sais dont charge a full or partially discharged battery, at what point do you Charge it, it came charged and it currently reads 13.1 volts

Where do you see that in the instructions? My copy and the current version on the website say don't charge if it has been discharged below 6 volts. They recommend 8 volts minimum when discharging for a balance charge.

Keep in mind also that the primary applications of these batteries have on board battery chargers and the battery instructions make it clear that a normal charger, with the correct parameters, is fine.

That said, Pegasus tech support indicated that to get their balance charger to work they may need to discharge the battery further. If so, be sure to monitor the voltage to stay above 8 volts.

Take a look at the video in this link for lots of charging details. Based on the video there is a good chance that the reason mine won't balance charge anymore (it did at first) is that I never watched the video or forgot the details.

http://www.ballisticparts.com/tech/charging.php

Also, look at the some of the other videos for more information about how the Li-Fe batteries work. The cold starting video is interesting in case we get to a situation where the race car is cold and at first it won't crank. When in doubt, keep trying.

http://www.ballisticparts.com/downloads/media.php

Again, mine is working fine with just a normal charger. I'll do some experimenting to see if I can get the balance charger to work by "following the instructions" correctly.

Dick

[Dick R.]

I found the problem with my Ballistic Balance Charger. There was a "connection break" error displayed but the cables/wires had no visible damage and had never been abused. Continuity testing today located a bad charging cable connection at the positive banana plug. Of course, it is a molded connector so I cannot fix the original so I'll get a new plug or complete cable from an electronics store.

Sometimes its the little things.

Dick

[schuey57]

Thanks for the info, what sort of voltage would you let the battery to drain before you charge it, in my charger instructions it sais dont charge the battery if its already charged or partially drained, what do they call partially drained ? 12.5v for example

[DanW]

I found the problem with my Ballistic Balance Charger. There was a "connection break" error displayed but the cables/wires had no visible damage and had never been abused. Continuity testing today located a bad charging cable connection at the positive banana plug. Of course, it is a molded connector so I cannot fix the original so I'll get a new plug or complete cable from an electronics store.

Sometimes its the little things.

Dick

Dick,
At least its not a Lucas charger!

Best to you and Kelly! Hope you get out and have some fun!

Dan Wise

[BLS]

What battery/instructions do you have? The ballistic battery/instruction set I have says nothing like that. It does say you cannot bring a battery of this type back when discharged below 6v (but I know someone that revived one). It also says that to properly balance charge the cells may require dropping them to a lower level first, which the ballistic charger can do.

[Dick R.]

Thanks for the info, what sort of voltage would you let the battery to drain before you charge it, in my charger instructions it sais dont charge the battery if its already charged or partially drained, what do they call partially drained ? 12.5v for example

Hmmm. Can you provide details regarding your charger since this instruction doesn't match the Ballistic info I have or what is currently on the Ballistic website?

Where did you buy the battery and the charger? I got mine from Pegasus in the US. My charger looks like the one in the video. https://www.pegasusautoracing.com/pr...asp?RecID=9406

When I first apply power to the charger (no battery connected) the display reads "SkyRC Imax B6" which appears to be a Ballistic branded version of this:

http://www.skyrc.com/index.php?route...t&product_id=9

There is a manual available on that web page that appears to be a more detailed version of the Ballistic charger manual. Since it is more general than the Ballistic version it specifies a minimum discharged voltage of 2V per cell. Our 12v Ballistic batteries have 4 cells in series which correlates with Ballistic's recommendation to discharge to 8 volts if doing a complete balance charge.

When I fix my charging cable I'll test and report back.

Dick
85 VD RF-85 FF1600

[schuey57]

Hi dick,

ive got the ballistic charger and on properly reading the instructions I'm now clear

[Modo]

looks like 12 cell with care should do it at $170, the 16 cell should really do it at $225, the debate for me is I can't afford to do it twice and there is the risk of the 12 cell, course I'm an idiot and the car is overweight, debate continues until click to purchase........ note: the following is for those not worried about weight and don't want to spend $129 for a replacement battery, our usual 18 ah battery although 15lbs (odessey is 13.2lbs, can get yuasa's at 11lbs), just get er done for $20 to $25 ........ here > http://www.amazon.com/12-volt-18-Rec...p+hour+battery

[Dick R.]

Hi dick,

ive got the ballistic charger and on properly reading the instructions I'm now clear

Great. I made a new main charging cable to replace the original with the open connection at the banana plug (caused by a cold solder joint which worked at first). Everything worked fine and even after 2 years without balance charging the cells were close. I'll go back to using a normal charger and ignoring balance charging most of the time.

Dick

[SV@RHC]

Has anyone tried the Shorai yet, looks interesting????

[iamuwere]

I used a Shorai in an FE. It was enough to start the car without the jump battery. I thought I had a failure with the battery but it was a bad alternator. I haven't managed to get it into the FC yet, but I suspect it will work well.

[Chris Livengood]

The Ballistic charger is a common charger used hobbyists. It can be found on many sites for less than $25. Don't get suckered by Ballistic.