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  1. #1
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    Default Aero grip is a drug

    There is no way you can comprehend how significant grip is at high speed unless you put your butt in a winged car. I've raced a few regionals in an FE and it still takes me a few laps each session to trust the tires in flat-out corners... then I hate to get off the track when the checkered flag is waved.

    If interested, here is a lap at Roebling Road from last weekend's race.

    http://youtu.be/mOcEP4Wgnp4

  2. #2
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    Say goodbye to your wallet and hello to your crack, I mean tire dealer. The aero is really fun on the brakes as well.

  3. #3
    Senior Member Evl's Avatar
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    Nice video production, Joe, and great meeting you last weekend!

    Roebling really does stretch out the neck, doesn't it?

    Hope to see you out there again soon,

    -Chris
    #45 FE - Personal twitter: @AOERacing
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  4. #4
    Global Moderator carnut169's Avatar
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    Enjoyed the video, thanks!
    Sean O'Connell
    1996 RF96 FC
    1996 RF96 FB
    2004 Mygale SJ04 Zetec

  5. #5
    Senior Member Stan Clayton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Reppert View Post
    There is no way you can comprehend how significant grip is at high speed unless you put your butt in a winged car. I've raced a few regionals in an FE and it still takes me a few laps each session to trust the tires in flat-out corners... then I hate to get off the track when the checkered flag is waved.
    In that case you should try a car with some downforce...
    Stan Clayton
    Stohr Cars

  6. #6
    Senior Member Neil_Roberts's Avatar
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    Driving a FF in a run group that included FA showed what downforce does. I was surprised to discover that in first gear corners and twisty segments, I could run right with the Atlantics. I was shocked by how fast an Atlantic could pass me on the outside while I was teetering on the edge of disaster in a 4th gear corner. It was amazing.

  7. #7
    Contributing Member Rick Ross's Avatar
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    Does anyone here know approximately how much downforce is produced by an FE at, say, 130 mph or so?

  8. #8
    Contributing Member sracing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rick Ross View Post
    Does anyone here know approximately how much downforce is produced by an FE at, say, 130 mph or so?
    Steve Lathrop told me that a FC Citation got about 500 lbs. (Of course use of wickers and wing angle will make a difference.)
    Jim
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  9. #9
    Senior Member Evl's Avatar
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    Not knowing the real value, I'd guess 250-300lbs, based on comparing cornering G vs speed.
    #45 FE - Personal twitter: @AOERacing
    RaceTimer+ and business twitter:@Epipiphero

  10. #10
    Contributing Member phantomjock's Avatar
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    Default Dang!

    Missed that video - but sounds real interesting, and I'd really like to see it. Anybody have a copy - or link they could send/repost.
    TIA and Cheers - Jim

  11. #11
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    Downforce is an aquired drug!!!!
    Dee
    rt 5
    rt41

  12. #12
    Contributing Member Rick Kirchner's Avatar
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    shouldent it be more like 1200lbs? If the car shows 2.5g, and sticky slicks will get you to 1.3/1.4-ish, you'd need another 1200lbs???

  13. #13
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    Down force numbers are expressed in pounds of down force and some speed. 150mph is typically used for FA and higher formulas. It is quite possible for an FC to make 1200 lbs. down force at 150mph. But you don't have the HP to do that.

    FC performance is getting close to the limit of what we can get the tires to do.

    One reason winged cars gain over non-winged cars is because down force is applied to the tires close to evenly side to side. With the down force one gains a lot of performance from the inside tires that is not possible in a non-winged car.

    The Lola T97 Indy Lights will make close to 2400 lbs. at 190 mph. I think the numbers for the Swift 016 is close to 2200 at 150. The Dallara Indy lights tops out at something like 1800 at 190 mph.

    Just some numbers to compare against.

  14. #14
    Contributing Member Jnovak's Avatar
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    Our data showed that our FE made about 900 lbs Df at around 130+ mph. Do not remember the details but this is a good ball park.
    Thanks ... Jay Novak
    313-445-4047
    On my 54th year as an SCCA member
    with a special thanks to every SCCA worker (NONE OF US WOULD RACE WITHOUT THE WORKERS)

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  16. #15
    Member airindy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Reppert View Post
    There is no way you can comprehend how significant grip is at high speed unless you put your butt in a winged car. I've raced a few regionals in an FE and it still takes me a few laps each session to trust the tires in flat-out corners... then I hate to get off the track when the checkered flag is waved.

    If interested, here is a lap at Roebling Road from last weekend's race.

    http://youtu.be/mOcEP4Wgnp4
    Well understood! I come from sprint cars, winged and non winged, dirt and pavement, and yes those huge wings can help you do wonderful things!!! Hope to get in a Formula car soon!

  17. #16
    Contributing Member formulasuper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by S Lathrop View Post
    Down force numbers are expressed in pounds of down force and some speed. 150mph is typically used for FA and higher formulas. It is quite possible for an FC to make 1200 lbs. down force at 150mph. But you don't have the HP to do that.

    FC performance is getting close to the limit of what we can get the tires to do.

    One reason winged cars gain over non-winged cars is because down force is applied to the tires close to evenly side to side. With the down force one gains a lot of performance from the inside tires that is not possible in a non-winged car.

    The Lola T97 Indy Lights will make close to 2400 lbs. at 190 mph. I think the numbers for the Swift 016 is close to 2200 at 150. The Dallara Indy lights tops out at something like 1800 at 190 mph.

    Just some numbers to compare against.
    Steve, any figures for the 83 rt5?
    Scott Woodruff
    83 RT5 Ralt/Scooteria Suzuki Formula S

    (former) F440/F5/FF/FC/FA
    65 FFR Cobra Roadster 4.6 DOHC

  18. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by formulasuper View Post
    Steve, any figures for the 83 rt5?
    Given that that car was a tunnel car, my bet is that it made well over 1500 lbs. maybe 2000 lbs.. But the tunnels were not all that wide. The flat bottom ground effect cars made a surprising amount because they had a very large surface area to work with.

  19. #18
    Senior Member turnbaugh's Avatar
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    The 2 seater Wolf is about 1900. Single seater Wolf is > 2200.

    Yes this is usually spec'ed at 250 kph or 155 mph
    Dean
    Wolf GB08
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    www.motorsports-sw.com

  20. #19
    Contributing Member Ty_Handke_83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by turnbaugh View Post
    The 2 seater Wolf is about 1900. Single seater Wolf is > 2200.

    Yes this is usually spec'ed at 250 kph or 155 mph
    So if you have a 300 lb passenger, that equals things out then, right?
    Ty Handke

    HMST Inc.

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