SVRA at COTA

[Roland V. Johnson]

SVRA announced over the weekend that they have a race scheduled at COTA October 24 - 27. Sounds like the place to be!

[mike g.]

It'd be magical. Awesome track.

[Cobra]

Couldn't find the October 2013 COTA event scheduled in the SVRA calendar. Has a contract been inked? I've heard that COTA is tough to negotiate with.

[Cobra]

It appears that COTA Management has cancelled all but four non-pro racing activities for next year and will not be entering into any track rental agreements for Club Racing or Tracking events for 2013.

See this posting: http://jalopnik.com/5970719/austins-...ans-everywhere

Crap!

[Bill Bonow]

Might want to check again, seems COTA has "flip-flopped" and will honor events that have contracts written.

[Tigaman]

I would definitely keep the weekend open...

[DK540]

Heck, I don't even have a car yet and I'm keepin' the calendar open for that one.

David

[bob darcey]

Well?? Anyone have a report?

[Roland V. Johnson]

The drivers that I had loved the track and the facilities. They had some problems, as with any new event. Dan Cowdrey's Titan MK-6 (one of my guys) was only 7 seconds per lap slower than the winner(?). Dan has a top line national Ivey engine and is a very good driver. He was 1.5 seconds faster than any of the other FF's or CF's. SVRA was unable to check the engines for legality, but they assured me that they had noticed the straight line speed of the winner's(?) car. I'm on the road home from Texas and will try to get a better report later. It's a long tow for us, but I think everyone would go again. We just want a level playing field.

P.S. I don't talk behind any one's back. I informed the winner(?)'s crew that their engines were out of spec.

[Amon]

Roland,

Did the winner have a FC motor in his car or what?? It can be very
depressing if you know that second place is the best you can accomplish
no matter how well you drive!

Mark

[GT1Vette]

I've heard there were issues with red flags and FCY in most every run group, that some groups on Saturday got only two green flag laps. And yes, I realize that's not unlike the SCCA experience in March but it's a result of track procedures rather than the organizing body.

Can anyone here confirm that for me?

[Roland V. Johnson]

There were some issues. With 15 min sessions a car on fire or upside down kills
things. Like most vintage and some scca groups. clock ,management could be better.

[DFR Dave Freitas]

Until the motor gets torn down and is found to be out of spec, basically calling the winner a cheater is a bit like sour grapes to me.

[teamwisconsin]

I've heard there were issues with red flags and FCY in most every run group, that some groups on Saturday got only two green flag laps. And yes, I realize that's not unlike the SCCA experience in March but it's a result of track procedures rather than the organizing body.

Can anyone here confirm that for me?

Butch,
Yes that's true. I had a car in Group 7 (2 litre FIA Sports Racers/S-2000's/and whatever else they felt like throwing in like "current" RT41 CSR's, etc) and we had a number of problems with our races. The ones that got me the most were:

1. We had a red flag for a car that blew it's engine and the oil started a small fire during our qualifying race. Not exactly red flag material, but I can understand going to the extreme in case the fire got out of hand. We ended up with 3 green flag laps that race, and with only one session per day, this was a bit of a bummer.

2. Sunday's "main event" race had a wave off for the start, but since most vintage guys have NO idea what to do when there's a wave off, they simply re-gridded themselves at whatever new position they found themselves at. (my client went from P12 to P6, and restarted from there. He wasn't the worst offender...) in the ensuing melee in turn 1, cars spun and stalled, so they went from an aborted green to a full course yellow. Race monitor showed them starting the clock at the wave off (as I would expect) then after they did 2 more complete laps under yellow, they reset the clock at the new green flag.

3. Grid workers... there were 3 I think? No whistles at a 5, 3 or 1 minute, no number board held up at the front of the grid, they would just casually put their hand out and wiggle their fingers like spirit fingers. And these minutes had NO bearing on actual minutes. We had a 5 that lasted 8, a 3 that lasted 5 and a 1 that was almost 4 minutes. I know of 2 cars that overheated badly after firing up at the 1 (one lost a head gasket), expecting the 1 to be some sort of sign that their session would be starting soon. Certainly blame falls with the driver too for not shutting their engines off, but usually a 1 minute board means you're pretty safe to fire up. NOT BLAMING THE WORKERS HERE, I think they were victims of what they were being told on the radios.

4. Along those same lines; we had a session on Thursday I believe that we were sitting on grid, and they came by and said it was going to be a 20 minute delay due to track cleanup. 20 was then changed to 60 minutes, so everyone got out of their cars. Somewhere in the neighborhood of 30 minutes after the initial warning, they called a 5 (which was coincidentally the shortest 5 of the weekend). Maybe I'm spoiled by years of working with SCCA grid workers, but USUALLY as a competitor I expect someone to come around and say "they're getting close to ready, we're going on a 5 soon." Seemed like a BIG disconnect between race control and the workers.

5. The enduro's... They allow ANYTHING on track in their enduros. Call me silly, I just feel like running an enduro means you aren't going to mix open and closed wheel cars. They had a red flag during the Saturday enduro for an Elva Courier that got tangled up with a Lotus 23 (the Courier driver gave the 23 a point by, then turned in on him) and ended up on his lid. They med-flighted him out (rather extremely, as he had a small concussion and a sprained wrist)... The Sunday enduro featured late-model LMP cars, 2 litre FIA cars, stock cars, Indy Lights cars... luckily no major incidents.

Seemed like most people felt like SVRA had the best intentions, but the event was a bit of a mess. I think the thrill of running on a F1 circuit had been tempered by all the hassle, but I can only speak as a mechanic about this weekend, not an entrant. I was there supporting a FF at the Majors back in March and it had a very similar feel. I think both clubs wanted to put on a great event but were hampered by what they were dealing with as far as track control.

[Daryl DeArman]

Until the motor gets torn down and is found to be out of spec, basically calling the winner a cheater is a bit like sour grapes to me.

Absolutely, however....what do you do when there isn't a process for such a teardown?

Do we want the vintage scene to morph into a free-for-all, run-what-ya-brung? Do we want the vintage events to turn into a whole impound, protest, teardown, court of appeals type deal? Or do we decide to take the good (great atmosphere) with the bad (the cheaters and the sour grapes)? Have fun and compete, knowing that the wins/losses really don't signify a whole bunch.

[Amon]

Dave,

I understand your point about the engine teardown, however when the winner is
pulling out a lead at over 7 seconds a lap over the second place car, which has a
new motor and is driven by an experienced driver, then eyebrows are raised! Not
even Seb. Vettel has displayed that kind of dominance over his rivals this year, but
your point is well taken.

Thanks!

Mark

[GT1Vette]

Ethan,

Thanks for your comments confirming, at least in part, things I've heard from other sources.

[LFFR]

Some of the Vintage clubs have programs for engine verification. details on RMVR's voluntary can be found at: http://www.channelbeemer.net/lffr_web/LnP.htm It's not as complete as the SCCA's teardowns but covers most of the big legality issues. VARA also has their program.

Then if/when you're passed on track and you don't see the Legal & Proud sticker on the side of the passing car, you shake your head and say to yourself "c'est la vie". At RMVR Legal and Proud cars are listed as a seperate class on the timing and scoring sheets; "FF-LP". Non L&P cars are listed as "FF".

If you are sporting the L&P stickers on your car and suddenly find a new head gasket laying on the nose of your car, you're being called out; maybe your engine isn't quite "legal". ...And you are expected to reaffirm your engine measurements, usually with onlookers.

There was one case, a number of years ago, when one compettitor picked up his game considerably. There were "grumblings" about his engine's legality. He came and requested a reaffirmation inspection, Saturday evening, at the track. A group was gathered; his engine was checked and found to be within spec. Not much else could be said.

We do accept inspections done by our engine builders so there is no need to re-inspect a new & dynoed engine.

Wayne Mitchell... are you out there to talk about VARA's program?

We're Legal & Proud because we want to be!

John Mihalich, Jr.
RMVR Legal & Proud Administrator

[TimH]

I know a guy who won a Silver Medal in the 1976 Montreal Olympics rowing against the East Germans. When word came out a few years ago about the rampant steroid use back then there were a number of athletes who petitioned to get their status adjusted, but Mike just couldn't see the point. He knew what he had done and didn't really care that it could be proved the competition had cheated.

A reason I never much considered racing with SCCA is that if by some miracle I did well I'd hate to have to pay Ivey for a premature rebuild.

[Daryl DeArman]

VARA has a "legal and proud"-like program. There are a few classes that utilize it.

It is basically a good faith gesture made by honest folks, but means absolutely nothing should you be the dishonest type, or should politics enter the fray.

On a day before the start of the season a few easy to check things are looked at by very well-intentioned volunteers. If all is good you get a sticker for your car. If you are the cheating type, no need to keep that same engine configuration throughout the season. If you don't participate and display a sticker you don't accumulate points towards the year-end championship. If you don't have a sticker and pitch a fit to the right people the pointskeeper is instructed by the BoD to give the points anyways (we're an "inclussive club", and JoeRacer is a major event sponsor).

***on edit*** the give them points anyways order was done under a very different BoD than todays' BoD.

[JeffW]

I know that SVRA and HSR require an engine certification form signed by the engine builder. Now that's not to say you couldn't modify things afterwards, but you risk the wrath of that engine builder if you do something naughty. As far as I can see all they do is weigh the cars, though in our class (S2) they do warn about using a light flywheel and an ally head with an Elgin cam. However, in truth I don't know if anyone ever checks these.

I have run enduros of 1, 3, and 4 hours in a run what you brung situation (sedans, sports racers, etc.). If you are in a faster car, you just have to be extra careful to read the body language of the car you are intending to pass. If you are in a slower car, then keep checking the mirrors.

JeffW

[Bob L.]

Back about a hundred years ago, SVRA ran at Heartland Park... I had a fair run with my 1622 Elva Courier, to the point that someone decided to come do a displacement check.. They had a glass huffer tube that measured displacement if valves were disable. Of course mine was legal, even a bit under...(a guy with a 289 Cobra came out just over 500 ci...hard to figure that one...) For me, others couldn't believe my car was that much faster based on....what they were doing? My engine was home built...using stock crank/rods/rockers/and porting.... However, I had been racing H for many years prior with similar stuff...relative speed wasn't unexpected to me....ran that engine over 12 yrs... Sort of funny, really.

All this about legal, teardowns, etc... goes against the basic philosophy of vintage...sad to see, but not new. Common today is to run stuff that was never available during the period...like those 060 over bores, with crossflow heads, Webers, full tube frames, alum. rads, in production....but, that has crept in over the last 30 yrs.... if weeded out, fields maybe be smaller..... Let's all keep our own houses in order, and not worry too much about others...there shouldn't be any reason to do elsewise... Penske ain't knocking over on the vintage scene...

Bob L.

[bob darcey]

Results posted
http://www.svra.com/race-results/res...er-24-27-2013/

[KenT]

I have been watching all of the SVRA videos they have been posting this year and although the videos are great, it seems there are a lot of late model race cars in the run groups. Is this common? My only experience with vintage to date has been a regular vacation pilgrimage to Monterey for the Historics and my vintage racecar magazines. I understand the Historics are an invitation only event and the amongst the top races on the calendar, but I would have thought something billed as the National Championships would be only vintage cars.

I am not judging and assume this is to fill the field so the event can actually cover their expenses. To those that race in those groups is the racing the same as vintage only events? I have seen a video or two with a gaggle of late model mustangs come racing though past vintage lower powered cars and wonder if the aggression is more SCCA/NASA as opposed to typical vintage races.


Note: I watched a vintage race video from Spa where Lola T70s and Mclarens were racing among others. The racing was aggressive like a current pro race. It was fun to watch, but I wouldn't want my T70 coupe in the middle of that scrum.

[john f]

I feel that in vintage you are driving your trophy. It realy makes no difference where you finish if you are having fun. The moment you start acknowledging finishing place, be it by a victory lap, points keeping and end of year champion, or what, you are asking for cheating. Do away with those items, run similar speed cars together, and do not worry if some one wants to run a monster motor. As stated earlier, Penske isn't watching and I don't think any one has gone from vintage to F1. Just my $0.02.

john f

[JeffW]

Ken is correct - there is an increasing number of newer cars in vintage. I'd say it started around 2007 or so, when it seemed like an attempt by organizers to accumulate entries. In S2 there are Historics, S2s, and SS2s the latter group covering Lola T90/x and Carbirs for example.

For the most part teams seem to accept this, in lieu of good track time and zero contact races (in theory). In group 7 where we run we are up against 5L and 2L Can Ams and other sports racers running BDAs, BDGs and so on. But we can race within our own group of S2s and at the Gold Cup this year SVRA had a split start which allowed the S2s to start together and the other cars in the group separately. This worked out well I thought.

JeffW

[Tigaman]

Until the motor gets torn down and is found to be out of spec, basically calling the winner a cheater is a bit like sour grapes to me.

Agreed.

Roland, I'm familiar with Dan's speed having observed his driving in August for the last few years at MRLS, but I also know he wasn't particularly quick in the big car on his inaugural visit to Lime Rock a few years ago. While I have no doubt he has the best equipment, an Ivey Ford engine hasn't won the RunOffs in many years, even though Jay's work is very good. My point is that the track's complexity was a big equalizer and hobbled may people coming up to speed.

I can tell you that when a Firestone Indy Lights Champion and an Indy Car driver hired by none other than AJ Foyt decides to race his Titan Mk6 with the likes of us, he's going to kick your's and my ass six ways to Sunday!

Wade Cunningham did this at COTA. I've see "Speedy" Dan Clarke do it, too. Get over it!

I taught the Track Orientation Program Wednesday and flew Ross Bentley, Peter Argetsinger, Grand Am winner Tom Long and Grand Am GT driver Jason Hart to help me. This is a VERY challenging track and not an easy one to learn or master. There is huge time to be found (and huge straightline speed, if you can take T1, T11 and T20 correctly and not RUSH it) by better familiarity with the course.

I won my class on Sunday (outboard suspension, Club Sports 2000) with crappy brakes (not what you want at this track) turning laps less than two seconds off Dave Ferguson's CURRENT S2 lap record (and three other Sports 2000 cars went a second quicker than me). If you are looking for comparisons, Road America times are similar...

I can tell you that the cars are in the corners for such a long time that it was easy for Wade to just flat outdrive people, ALL people, including many FB's. If you saw him at the HAWK at Elkhart this past July, you would have seen the same thing.

There were people talking about Dan, too. But Wade was on another planet, and until it's torn down, I would not be so quick to judge...

[Tigaman]

I've heard there were issues with red flags and FCY in most every run group, that some groups on Saturday got only two green flag laps. And yes, I realize that's not unlike the SCCA experience in March but it's a result of track procedures rather than the organizing body.

Can anyone here confirm that for me?

Butch, I can tell you it was better than the Majors event, by far.

ONE group (ours) got three green flag laps and was scored the lap before the red flag due to a broken header that caught the bodywork on fire. We had ONE major delay for an engine oil cleanup from a big GT car (fancy that, three gallons of oil?!?!?) and that was about it.

There were some issues. With 15 min sessions a car on fire or upside down kills things. Like most vintage and some scca groups. clock management could be better.

We got two thirty minute practice slots (22-25 minutes green flag, plus checker lap) on Thursday and one thirty minute qualifying session Friday, plus two races. The only short sessions were the hardships, which were limited and few took advantage of because of the wet. By and large, Tom Hardy ran the clock as well or better than any SCCA race I've been to in a long time. Plus, he caught up the schedule without too much bitching going on.

Butch,
Yes that's true. I had a car in Group 7 (2 litre FIA Sports Racers/S-2000's/and whatever else they felt like throwing in like "current" RT41 CSR's, etc) and we had a number of problems with our races. The ones that got me the most were:

1. We had a red flag for a car that blew it's engine and the oil started a small fire during our qualifying race. Not exactly red flag material, but I can understand going to the extreme in case the fire got out of hand. We ended up with 3 green flag laps that race, and with only one session per day, this was a bit of a bummer.

2. Sunday's "main event" race had a wave off for the start, but since most vintage guys have NO idea what to do when there's a wave off, they simply re-gridded themselves at whatever new position they found themselves at. (my client went from P12 to P6, and restarted from there. He wasn't the worst offender...) in the ensuing melee in turn 1, cars spun and stalled, so they went from an aborted green to a full course yellow. Race monitor showed them starting the clock at the wave off (as I would expect) then after they did 2 more complete laps under yellow, they reset the clock at the new green flag.

3. Grid workers... there were 3 I think? No whistles at a 5, 3 or 1 minute, no number board held up at the front of the grid, they would just casually put their hand out and wiggle their fingers like spirit fingers. And these minutes had NO bearing on actual minutes. We had a 5 that lasted 8, a 3 that lasted 5 and a 1 that was almost 4 minutes. I know of 2 cars that overheated badly after firing up at the 1 (one lost a head gasket), expecting the 1 to be some sort of sign that their session would be starting soon. Certainly blame falls with the driver too for not shutting their engines off, but usually a 1 minute board means you're pretty safe to fire up. NOT BLAMING THE WORKERS HERE, I think they were victims of what they were being told on the radios.

4. Along those same lines; we had a session on Thursday I believe that we were sitting on grid, and they came by and said it was going to be a 20 minute delay due to track cleanup. 20 was then changed to 60 minutes, so everyone got out of their cars. Somewhere in the neighborhood of 30 minutes after the initial warning, they called a 5 (which was coincidentally the shortest 5 of the weekend). Maybe I'm spoiled by years of working with SCCA grid workers, but USUALLY as a competitor I expect someone to come around and say "they're getting close to ready, we're going on a 5 soon." Seemed like a BIG disconnect between race control and the workers.

5. The enduro's... They allow ANYTHING on track in their enduros. Call me silly, I just feel like running an enduro means you aren't going to mix open and closed wheel cars. They had a red flag during the Saturday enduro for an Elva Courier that got tangled up with a Lotus 23 (the Courier driver gave the 23 a point by, then turned in on him) and ended up on his lid. They med-flighted him out (rather extremely, as he had a small concussion and a sprained wrist)... The Sunday enduro featured late-model LMP cars, 2 litre FIA cars, stock cars, Indy Lights cars... luckily no major incidents.

Seemed like most people felt like SVRA had the best intentions, but the event was a bit of a mess. I think the thrill of running on a F1 circuit had been tempered by all the hassle, but I can only speak as a mechanic about this weekend, not an entrant. I was there supporting a FF at the Majors back in March and it had a very similar feel. I think both clubs wanted to put on a great event but were hampered by what they were dealing with as far as track control.

I ran in your group. What car were you with? <edit: never mind, I know! >

1) Control can't know how serious it is. CoTA has a procedure and like many other tracks (think of the Glen and Mont Tremblant), they shut it down (and tell the Steward in the chair that they're going to do so) and ask questions later. It didn't only happen in our group.

2) I'm guilty on that aborted start, but with the exception of Dave H (who got screwed trying to do the right thing, but triumphed deservedly), just about everyone got back in line and there was a lot of give-and-take to do it, once everyone knew what was going on.

I can say that the message didn't get to the flagman that SOP at SVRA is no wave-offs (to avoid what happened at Road America several years ago. There was ONE Chevron who jumped it and he could have been black flagged, after the fact. It still worked out generally. We got extra time and got the whole race in.

3) You answered it yourself. SVRA had two dfferent sets of staff at the event, the former HSR-West crowd and the East Coast crowd. It took awhile to get things to work together a little better, and I have no doubt that grid is on the short list for review next year. It IS the driver's responsibility to start the car when it's time, not to rely on any faulty calls or crazy stopwatches... NOT an SVRA-specific problem...

4) I was there. It was 20, then 30-60 and it was at 30 that they called everyone to go. It just SEEMED like a short 5!

5) Agreed, but the 23 and the Elva ran together as GMod and DProd back in the day. The Elva driver was released and at the dinner that night.

I think you've hit the nail on the head with your assessment that I bolded at the end...

Absolutely, however....what do you do when there isn't a process for such a teardown?

Do we want the vintage scene to morph into a free-for-all, run-what-ya-brung? Do we want the vintage events to turn into a whole impound, protest, teardown, court of appeals type deal? Or do we decide to take the good (great atmosphere) with the bad (the cheaters and the sour grapes)? Have fun and compete, knowing that the wins/losses really don't signify a whole bunch.

It's just a freakin' game, guys! But that's why I run S2, so I know with reasonable certainty that I have a shot. That's all I want. It's hard to do that when you combine such a BROAD cross section of eras, capabilities, prep levels (through the ages) and potentials of cars.

Ethan,

Thanks for your comments confirming, at least in part, things I've heard from other sources.

Butch, call me sometime and I can set you straight. This "heard from other sources" is always colored by the teller's own experience. You and I have run 200+ car races, so call me and we can talk.

Ken is correct - there is an increasing number of newer cars in vintage. I'd say it started around 2007 or so, when it seemed like an attempt by organizers to accumulate entries. In S2 there are Historics, S2s, and SS2s the latter group covering Lola T90/x and Carbirs for example.

For the most part teams seem to accept this, in lieu of good track time and zero contact races (in theory). In group 7 where we run we are up against 5L and 2L Can Ams and other sports racers running BDAs, BDGs and so on. But we can race within our own group of S2s and at the Gold Cup this year SVRA had a split start which allowed the S2s to start together and the other cars in the group separately. This worked out well I thought.

JeffW

Thank God!

Yes, it can work well and it is fun.

CoTA was cool. And I judge the success of the event by the number of people I hear who say that they're coming back. That number improved from good to great as the weekend went on.

[Roland V. Johnson]

Peter, having our ass kicked, is not the problem. Having it done at the rate of 7 seconds a lap is. Also coming onto the straight on the gearbox of another Titan, and not being able to stay close, or even draft it is the problem. Dan and his car are very good. We have run up front with everyone from Southern California, Portland, Seattle, Road America, Lime Rock, Watkins Glenn, etc. My cars are always ready to be inspected by any other racer. Just come on over, bring whatever equipment you want to inspect with.
P.S. I'm not sure what MRLS is. In our only trip to Lime Rock Dan's father was driving his McKee CanAm car, not Dan. Dan was running up toward the front of the Vintage Ford field..............just to get the facts correct.

[Tigaman]

I'm not sure what MRLS is.

MRLS-Mazda Raceway Laguna Seca.

Dan has been driving the Lola Mk II Can Am car at the Monterey Reunion over the last few years, IIRC. He's quick on that track and in that car, and I have enjoyed watching him there.

http://www.tamsoldracecarsite.net/rmp0005013.html

I happen to work with Harin every year out there...

I have no quarrel with you, I have a problem with calling someone a cheater, unless it can be proven.

As someone who has made a very good living analyzing driver performance over the last three decades, it is a mistake to think that a performance envelope that you are familiar with (and that you believe your driver is close to the maximum) cannot be exceeded by someone else. Sometimes, at a tricky circuit like COTA, that can accentuate the difference.

I can say that I have data to support that drivers like Wade Cunningham (the FF winner at COTA) function on a level far beyond 99% of the drivers present that weekend. That is all.

Until there are compliance checks, it's all just speculation and whining.

[Amon]

Seven seconds per lap??? Not even Mike Varacins does that at the Runoffs where he's won
many times. I can see several seconds per lap, but seven seconds????? As I said previously,
not even Vettel does that with Newey's car and he's at the top of his game. I guess the best
way to adjust everyone's thinking is to allow for an inspection of the engine in question, and if
it's legal, apologize, have a beer and get ready for the next race etc......

[Tigaman]

I guess the best way to adjust everyone's thinking is to allow for an inspection of the engine in question, and if it's legal, apologize, have a beer and get ready for the next race etc......

Good idea!

The performance differential was evident from the first practice. There was plenty of time to go to Roger Linton, head of tech for SVRA and request more scrutiny. Maybe ya'll should throw an AiM Solo or Traqmate Basic into the suspect's (as well as the questioner's) car and compare REAL data instead of speculation.

You can find the results here: http://www.svra.com/race-results/res...er-24-27-2013/

[teamwisconsin]

I ran in your group. What car were you with?

Incase you weren't sure... it was this one.

[Roland V. Johnson]

I was at the tec shed asking for a compliance check after the qualifying race, and offering to have my car torn down at the same time. They said they did not have the equipment to perform the task. When someone in a similar Formula Ford seriously outdrives you down the straight, it's a problem. As for Jay Ivey not winning the Run Off's lately, You should call and ask him why he goes to the Coronado Vintage weekend and ignores the SCCA Run Off's. I asked who built the engine in question. I don't remember his name, but I don't think he has ever won the Run Off's with a Formula Ford. I wonder if he knew how tightly restricted Formula Ford engines are? If you would like my AIM data, ask and I'll send the data from both cars.

[Tigaman]

Incase you weren't sure... it was this one.

Oops! I went back and edited my post, I thought you were with a yellow Carbir, not Francois.

What a beautiful car! And a delightful man!

I had a nice conversation with him on the grid while we were waiting on that clean up delay Friday morning. I recognized his name from many years ago and few people know how much of a towering design influence he was on passenger car design, for several companies! It was an honor to share the track with him.

Here's some very brief footage of him after the first restart. It's right at the beginning: http://youtu.be/CHfxl5YAh3w

[Tigaman]

I was at the tec shed asking for a compliance check after the qualifying race, and offering to have my car torn down at the same time. They said they did not have the equipment to perform the task.

If you would like my AIM data, ask and I'll send the data from both cars.

That's too bad. SVRA has crowed on about renewed scrutiny and their desired criteria for legality and it's a shame that they don't back up their bark with a bite!

Both Ryan Lewis and Wade Cunningham have earned their wages from professionally driving race cars at the highest level (Ryan Lewis was National Class British F3 Champion less than ten years ago and finished second in Pro Formula Atlantic when it was a competitive series, as well as driving ALMS LMP cars for Patrick Dempsey, Wade Cunningham qualified his IRL car next to Scott Dixon in Texas, qualified another IRL car on the seventh row of the Indy 500 in 2012 and won the Indy Lights Championship back in 2005) for a long time.

I would assume they would know and present the cars to the rules. Maybe I'm mistaken, but personally, before I called someone out, especially folks that have their CV's and in a public forum, I would want to see proof of the illegality you claim.

Look, I teach school, not tear down cars (anymore)

I don't know either of them personally, but will inquire if Wade or Ryan have data they want to share, and if they do, we'll see!

[Tigaman]

Seven seconds per lap??? Not even Mike Varacins does that at the Runoffs where he's won many times. I can see several seconds per lap, but seven seconds?????

Been thinking about this and this event at COTA was not even remotely like the RunOffs. It was a Club event, not a pro event.

The issue is not that Varacins (or other multiple time winners) are so fast, it's that they have a bunch of other guys that they are racing with that are ALSO truly fast...

Ryan and Wade are truly fast, beyond the comprehension of many on this board. If there had been deeper competition, it might have been more of a race. No judgement, just fact.

[Rick Kirchner]

inevitably when there's a controversial vintage thread the discussion comes around to "what's vintage?"

When I brought my 94 VD out to VARA in 2003 I took some crap for it, until Dan Longacre pointed out that when they allowed FFs in VARA they were.....9 years old (72s in 81 or so).

I really don't agree with the "72 and older only" crowd. For one thing, vintage is what older guys saw run when they were kids or just starting out. For me that was mid-80s cars. Close things off to a single era and pretty soon you don't have a business any more.

Next year my car will be 20 years old. It's time to move the vintage clock up a bit everywhere, especially the monoposto crowd.

Viintage is really a mind set. i think there's nothing wrong with racing hard in vintage, and a little contact every now and then is inevitable, but we ought to drive open wheel like they did in the 70's, where a 11/10ths move frequently put you in the hospital or a grave.

I'd love to race a bit more competitively, but I really don't have the time or money to fix torn up cars, and in my days as Chief of Tech back in Indy, I sure saw a lot of 'em!

[Tigaman]

I don't know either of them personally, but will inquire if Wade or Ryan have data they want to share, and if they do, we'll see!

Ask, and ye shall receive...

Hustle. Word.

http://youtu.be/oP709j0gWSA

[mike g.]

Ask, and ye shall receive...

Hustle. Word.

http://youtu.be/oP709j0gWSA

The video would be a lot smoother if ya didn't run over all those curbs!