SCCA Majors Schedule 2014

[turnbaugh]

What's wrong with Gingerman's surface? I don't like tracks that could double as dance floors. I like a little...texture.

Or is it... SCCA does not want back without some changes on the part of track management?

Brian

I met with COTA a few weeks ago. They are trying to decide if they are going to make the track available to events like SCCA, NASA, PCA, etc.in 2014.

They are also trying to decide on prices if they do allow events other than huge Pro events.

If you want to pay $55,000 per day and limit attendance to you and 17 friends, you can get the track whenever you like.

[JohnPaul]

I thought scca was developing a path to the runoffs through the regionals as well . Is that still going to happen? Anyone have details?

[GAC]

I thought scca was developing a path to the runoffs through the regionals as well . Is that still going to happen? Anyone have details?

Yes, each division has to come up with their set of divisional rules. CENDIV has already posted theirs on their website if you want to look at them.

[BLS]

SEDIV:

http://www.sedivracing.org/2014RunOffs_Article.pdf

[JRMarchand]

What's wrong with Gingerman's surface? I don't like tracks that could double as dance floors. I like a little...texture.

Dale, totally true, GingerMan has over 15 years of use without repave. I think the track surface is tired because it saw a lot of abuse from team testing ie indy lights, prototype and major pro teams, the track is close to Indy, Detroit and Chicago so its very accessible and cheap to rent. I remember the days when Suntrust and Gannasi used to bang around Gman a couple times a month, Pratt and Miller was only an hour from the track so a lot of development on that successful vette took place there. So when the track gets a repave, a proper pit-in lane will be created and the tire barrier on the last turn will be moved back away from the track over 50 feet. Racers will love it even more!!

[dalz]

Thanks Juan, I never thought of that. I suppose pro teams and other outfits like GM development want quality pavement. Time for a round of new track records there anyway.

So how will the pit-in be changed? Will it veer off to the left before the final turn?

[JRMarchand]

The pit in lane would veer off to the left and it would start a hundred yards or so before the braking zone, hopefully that would remedy the often wasted lap when someone is pitting in front of you going into T11.
Yes , we still see a bit of devqlopment but the hardcore teams are not comíng as often. The team I miss watching the most is the Cadillac with Johnny O, that guy is good.

[Speed Sport Engineering]

Dale, totally true, GingerMan has over 15 years of use without repave. I think the track surface is tired because it saw a lot of abuse from team testing ie indy lights, prototype and major pro teams, the track is close to Indy, Detroit and Chicago so its very accessible and cheap to rent. I remember the days when Suntrust and Gannasi used to bang around Gman a couple times a month, Pratt and Miller was only an hour from the track so a lot of development on that successful vette took place there. So when the track gets a repave, a proper pit-in lane will be created and the tire barrier on the last turn will be moved back away from the track over 50 feet. Racers will love it even more!!

I've found track management at Gingerman the worst of any facility I've had contact with. I've learned now that one must count on it taking a solid month to get in touch with someone regarding the facility. On SEVERAL occasions now I've tried to contact via e-mails, the listed phone number, as well as Josh's cell phone regarding questions on testing / entrance to the facility and MAYBE if I'm lucky I'll get a return phone call.

I had testing plans there prior to the runoffs, but after ONCE AGAIN trying to get some questions answered with no success, I decided I didn't want to give them any more of my money.

It's too bad SCCA still uses the place.

[JRMarchand]

Michael Varacins!!! really sad and confused about your take on GingerMan. I had no idea you went through so much trouble getting back to our awesome little track, sorry that you are so publicly disgruntled.

I personally enjoy watching you test at GingerMan for the last few years, you are quite the driver and your Formula Vee does things that are beyond belief. Feel free to contact me and I'll see that you get some complimentary track time at our facility, you should try it counter-clockwise next time, here is my email jrmrace@gmail.com

Thanks for the criticism, this one will not be overlooked and hopefully no other mistakes will happen that affect GingerMan's patrons from the past, present and future.

Congratulations on your magnificent win at the Runoffs.

Kind Regards

Marchand Juan R

[Speed Sport Engineering]

Michael Varacins!!! really sad and confused about your take on GingerMan. I had no idea you went through so much trouble getting back to our awesome little track, sorry that you are so publicly disgruntled.

I personally enjoy watching you test at GingerMan for the last few years, you are quite the driver and your Formula Vee does things that are beyond belief. Feel free to contact me and I'll see that you get some complimentary track time at our facility, you should try it counter-clockwise next time, here is my email jrmrace@gmail.com

Thanks for the criticism, this one will not be overlooked and hopefully no other mistakes will happen that affect GingerMan's patrons from the past, present and future.

Congratulations on your magnificent win at the Runoffs.

Kind Regards

Marchand Juan R

Thanks Juan,

I enjoy testing at Gingerman, and it's a great place to do so. Everyone of the staff is nice and accomodating once at the track. There just needs to be more attention focused on answering questions and returning phone calls. This problem isn't new - I can remember having issues getting in touch with someone at the track in 2005 or 2006. I'm not the only one who has had issues with this. I was told by someone else, and this is a quote, "The only one who really knows what is going on is the one girl who runs the test days...you need to get her number."

If you can get someone on the staff to be more prompt at checking the track voicemail and returning messages, Gingerman would be much better off.

I'm sure I'll be back there again next year, as like I said it's a great place to test.

Thanks for the reply and sorry to everyone else for taking this off topic.

Michael

[Ian Lenhart]

Since we are on the topic of GingerMan, what is up with the open test days restricting formula cars. Blackhawk did the same this year as well.

Back to the majors topic, as Butch mentioned previously the name Major and Divisional is no different then National and Regional. Just a changed name for a dumb marketing campaign that will not fix the current problems. The regions keep raising entry fees because of the lack of turnout and shorten track time and then offer a Performance driving experience (pdx) Group on Saturday. Someone explain this to me, a pdx cost $65.00 for 120 minute run time and the double regional cost $430 for 110 minutes over the entire weekend. Same track, same safety crew, same insurance I assume. I know many are not racing or cutting back on the number of events because entry fees vs the amount of track time is a horrible value. Raising the price of the major to $700 + and reducing track time is not going to increase participation. "My restaurant is not selling enough Hamburgers, so lets raise the price, reduce the burger from 1/4 pound to an 1/8 pound, and buy the cheap ground beef. Am I going to sell more? Do you think the regulars that bought your burger before is going to be happy with the new product?"

[GAC]

There has been a lot of talk about less track time at the Majors, but SCCA has not said that there would be less track time. There will be less race time than Double Majors from this year, but there will be more race time than Single Majors this year. If they are going to three day weekends, then it sounds like we will have more track time than the two day Double Majors weekends this year. The June Sprints from this year is a good example. Each group had one practice and two qualifying sessions. Then half the groups had two races, and half had one race. With the new format, there will be time for all groups to have two races. Can you do one 20 min qualifying session and a full race each day? Yes, but we would not get as much track time that way. It should also be pointed out that by combining two divisions into one conference, you have twice the entrant pool for the same number of races as a Divisional National schedule, so you should see larger fields. For those that do not have the time and money to run the Conference schedule, you can run the Regional schedule and still attend your Division's Majors and go to the Runoffs. It makes sense for increasing participation in the Majors over Nationals as well as increasing participation in Regionals.

[mike g.]

Since we are on the topic of GingerMan, what is up with the open test days restricting formula cars. Blackhawk did the same this year as well.

I ran FF all day long at G-man before the major this July. More track time than I could handle for $150 or $190. Many formula cars out there, 3 run groups - small tops, big tops, formula. Worked nicely.

[Ian Lenhart]

I ran FF all day long at G-man before the major this July. More track time than I could handle for $150 or $190. Many formula cars out there, 3 run groups - small tops, big tops, formula. Worked nicely.

Mike,

Sorry I wasn't clear, I was referring to the early weekend test day and I believe the Wednesday evening test and tune was only open to closed wheeled vehicles. I'm sure the Friday test days before a weekend event was open for all classes. I'm referring to Blackhawks once a month Wednesday open test day as well.

Ian

[Chris Elwell]

Raising the price of the major to $700 + and reducing track time is not going to increase participation. "My restaurant is not selling enough Hamburgers, so lets raise the price, reduce the burger from 1/4 pound to an 1/8 pound, and buy the cheap ground beef. Am I going to sell more? Do you think the regulars that bought your burger before is going to be happy with the new product?"

Is it official that Majors entry fees are increasing next year?

[Amon]

Chris,

If the entry for Majors rises to $700+, then except for Mid-Ohio, I'll skip the
rest of them and concentrate on getting my car right by running at the Non-Majors,
(ex-Regionals?), for the Daytona Runoff's in 2015. I appreciate their efforts to get
more cars on the track, but raising prices, especially during hard times goes against
simple economics as Ian mentioned earlier.

Mark

92' Protoform P-1/05

[GAC]

A price increase was NOT part of the official letter that SCCA posted about the 2014 season. There is also no mention of one on the website.

[mike g.]

I posted the question on the SCCA facebook page... we'll see.

[Tiago Santos]

Just another rumour started by Harding. Actually I believe he might have mentioned he expected the Runoffs entry to cost $700 (again, speculation) and it somehow caught on that Majors entries were going up.

I don't know if they're going up or not, but I'll wait until I hear something to indicate an increase before I get all pissed on the internet.

[Darryl Wills]

True that...Additionally, I applaud ANY effort to raise the competition level at the Major events. Let's give these guys the benefit of the doubt that they analyzed all data from racer input and this new format is the direction we want SCCA to take. If it doesn't work then throw the concept out and start over...All I know, is that the former system was resulting in decreased participation and going NOWHERE...

[Terry Hanushek]

A price increase was NOT part of the official letter that SCCA posted about the 2014 season. There is also no mention of one on the website.

The entry fees for Majors are set by the host regions and will vary from track to track. The biggest component of the fee is track rental followed by insurance and SCCA fees. Last year's fees in the Eastern Conference were in the mid 500's. The 2014 fees may drift up a few bucks but in the same general range.

Terry

[Brett Lane]

Speaking of entry fees for Majors, Registration for the last regional of the year for PBIR is open. $350 for a single regional. Just speculating on what the fee for the Major(double) will be in January...North of $700?

[AlBerto]

I will share my 2013 Majors Tour entry fee spreadsheet, since the recent discussion focuses on the Majors Tour's fees. I found the entry fees by using the event's entry forms and supplements that are still available on SCCA's website and in some cases I have asked attendees. I was able to find most of the Majors event's entry fees, but I could still use some help for the Western Conference.

Hope this is helpful.

[steve kramer]

The entry fees for Majors are set by the host regions and will vary from track to track. The biggest component of the fee is track rental followed by insurance and SCCA fees. Last year's fees in the Eastern Conference were in the mid 500's. The 2014 fees may drift up a few bucks but in the same general range.

Terry

that is completely consistent with the spreadsheet posted. Track rental is much higher at some tracks v. others, exhibit 1 being COTA.

[mike g.]

SCCA replied to my fb post:

SCCA Inc. Your entry fees are a combination of a regions expenses and a Majors assessment fee. The Majors assessment to the regions will not have a dramatic change from what it was in 2013.

I think I read that as - we're charging the same but the regions might increase?

[GT1Vette]

I will share my 2013 Majors Tour entry fee spreadsheet, since the recent discussion focuses on the Majors Tour's fees. I found the entry fees by using the event's entry forms and supplements that are still available on SCCA's website and in some cases I have asked attendees. I was able to find most of the Majors event's entry fees, but I could still use some help for the Western Conference.

Hope this is helpful.

We're still finalizing things (and the BoD is in town this weekend) but as others have stated, the Majors assessment will not be dramatically different than in 2013.

Missing 2013 Western Conference events:

. ACS - $440/$340
. Buttonwillow - $370/$280
. Portland - $495/(no option for single)

And yes, this IS helpful!

[Hardingfv32]

So then, how does SCCA pay for the 2014 Runoffs? Will it generate income?

How does SCCA make up for the lost income from the new Runoff business model. Income from previous Runoffs was used to fund the National office or administration.

Brian

[GT1Vette]

I hesitate to open this door, but WTF...

Obviously Runoffs entry fees will be going up. By how much is still TBD, but even if it doubles (which it won't) that's a drop in the bucket compared to a driver/team's overall costs for the event, much less a season's effort to earn the invitation.

You've said you're not interested in going anyway, so why do you care?

[Tiago Santos]

I think Brian is hoping everyone will drop out so he can sneak in at the last minute and get a good finish. Won't happen any other way

[Hardingfv32]

You've said you're not interested in going anyway, so why do you care?

How and what the details are surrounding the SCCA 2014 business model are interesting. A poor/failed business model for the Runoffs could impact me in the future. I do participate at Major events, so how those entry fees are affected is important to me.

Thanks for your posts. Not much insight generally available from SCCA officials.

Brian

[greg pizzo]

How and what the details are surrounding the SCCA 2014 business model are interesting. A poor/failed business model for the Runoffs could impact me in the future. I do participate at Major events, so how those entry fees are affected is important to me.

Thanks for your posts. Not much insight generally available from SCCA officials.

Brian

SERIOUSLY ??? if a few hundred (or a couple even maybe) dollars a weekend times a few weekends a year effects your future, then maybe spend LESS time questioning things you are not likely ever going to effect and spend MORE time making some money so it doesnt matter so much. entry fees are such a SMALL part of a budget, you are focused on the WRONG side of the equation !! same song 65th verse....... ugh !! SEEMS like there should be SOMEthing more productive to spend your day doing ...

[butch deer]

Whatever the business model is I hope that the higher entry fee is all inclusive and that add ons like charges for paddock parking space and support vehicle charges that just nickle and dime competitors are all part of the entry fee. It would also be nice if test time preceeding the event was charged at rates comparable to those at the track durring the regular season.

[steve kramer]

SERIOUSLY ??? if a few hundred (or a couple even maybe) dollars a weekend times a few weekends a year effects your future, then maybe spend LESS time questioning things you are not likely ever going to effect and spend MORE time making some money so it doesnt matter so much. entry fees are such a SMALL part of a budget, you are focused on the WRONG side of the equation !! same song 65th verse....... ugh !! SEEMS like there should be SOMEthing more productive to spend your day doing ...

where is the LIKE button on this site?

[Hardingfv32]

[QUOTE=greg pizzo;408923.... spend MORE time making some money so it doesnt matter so much. entry fees are such a SMALL part of a budget, you are focused on the WRONG side of the equation !![/QUOTE]

I am 64 and have been retired for 30 years. Started racing after retiring. You do not live this life style without controlling costs. Revenue enhancement is not an option.

The lack of concern about costs by the membership makes SCCA the the most expensive club in the nation to run. Escalating costs/fees do carry a penalty. For a competitor who is growing tied of the sport for financial or personal reasons, that next increment of expense on the part of the club could be the what causes a full retirement from the sport. It is not like track time, run groupings, etc. are improving the entertainment value of SCCA club racing.

Brian

[Steve Davis]

I am 64 and have been retired for 30 years. Started racing after retiring. You do not live this life style without controlling costs. Revenue enhancement is not an option.

The lack of concern about costs by the membership makes SCCA the the most expensive club in the nation to run. Escalating costs/fees do carry a penalty. For a competitor who is growing tied of the sport for financial or personal reasons, that next increment of expense on the part of the club could be the what causes a full retirement from the sport. It is not like track time, run groupings, etc. are improving the entertainment value of SCCA club racing.

Brian

I'm afraid I have to side with Brian on this one. He is right that the incremental costs ARE significant. They absolutely DRIVE ME CRAZY. Racing is expensive enough without every little niggling thing adding, yet another, cost to the program. "WE" and SCCA need to examine EVERY aspect of racing to see what can be done to rein in some of these charges. It's bad enough for those of us that have been in it for 35+ years. Think of the impact on potential newbies ....

Steve, FV80

[greg pizzo]

I am 64 and have been retired for 30 years. Started racing after retiring. You do not live this life style without controlling costs. Revenue enhancement is not an option.

The lack of concern about costs by the membership makes SCCA the the most expensive club in the nation to run. Escalating costs/fees do carry a penalty. For a competitor who is growing tied of the sport for financial or personal reasons, that next increment of expense on the part of the club could be the what causes a full retirement from the sport. It is not like track time, run groupings, etc. are improving the entertainment value of SCCA club racing.

Brian

EVERYONE has to make thier own choices, but historically you seem to spend a lot of time raising QUESTIONS and precious little offering ANY constructive solutions .. very tiresome, maybe THAT time has come ...just maybe ? it's great that everyone still gets to decide for themselves when that is for what reason, don't you think ? when it gets too painful for whatever reason ... no one will force one to continue.
racing has never been a sport for the faint of heart or those who feel everything needs to be EVEN and the same for everyone ... and I personally LIKE THAT !!!

[Steve Demeter]

I agree with Brian.

While the cost of everything has gone up, the cost of SCCA entry fees and memberships and licenses has gone way out of proportion with the rest of the world.

I fully understand that track rental, insurance, ambulance service, and everything involved with putting on a race has gone up. But upwards of $200 for a membership and license is bordering on ridiculous.. IN the early 80's entry fees could be had in the $80 range. The entry fee for the Runoffs was ZERO and the Atlanta Region put it on. There was real sponsorship from companies like Valvoline and Champion and the average Joe at the Runoffs got free product within reason. And you got $50 worth of track fuel free as well.

Why is the national staff not obtaining that kind of sponsorship these days??

Lord knows it is much larger than it was 30 years ago?

Why do 5 or 6 National staff have to travel to every majors? Why does the National office hit the regions for $50 per entry fee for the Honor of hosting a Majors. Seems like the club may be getting a bit top heavy.