Starting Problems - Loud Pop, Bell Ringing Sound

[bsaltenberger]

New to FE and went to start the car for the first time since purchasing it. I was attempting to start the car to check on the new AiM Steering Wheel and EVO data logger we installed. Fuel cell was empty, so we filled it. Checked oil and topped that off as well. Car hasn't been started in a year.

Car wouldn't start, just kept chugging but wouldn't turn over. We would hold the start button for about 5-6 second bursts in trying to coax it over. Then rest for 10 seconds and try aagain. Hit throttle only a few times during this entire exercise to try and avoid flooding. After about 3 or 4 attempts, we heard a loud pop from forward drivers right area of the engine compartment. Sort of around the distributor area. That pop was partnered with a puff of smoke immediately followed by a loud bell-like ringing sound. Immediately after that we stopped holding the starter button. We scratched our heads, did a little reading on these types of threads, inspected the car, nothing stood out. So we decided to try and start it one more time.

Upon turning the power on the first thing we noticed was that the new AiM Formula Wheel dash no longer powered up, just blank. We tried the same 5-6 second bursts on the starter button, got maybe 7 or 8 attempts and car wouldn't turn over. On the 8th and final attempt we heard a pop again (no smoke this time) followed by the loud metallic bell ringing sound.

From this point we were fearful of.......well we had no idea but stopped trying to start the car for fear of causing any more damage.

We found posts in various threads and websites that this could be something related to a condenser, the bell housing, etc. No idea ourselves so looking to see if any of you have perhaps heard this and know what problem we are facing. Also, concerns that the first pop blew out the dash or at least the dash no longer comes on.

Thanks
Bill

[pschneider]

I have had similar problems when trying to start after draining fuel, rebuild, etc.. Make sure you have fuel, not year old stuff. Cycle fuel pump to pressurize system. It may take quite a number of tries. The ringing sound is probably the starter activating the flywheel. The puff of smoke is a "backfire" because it didn't start. No need to hit the throttle, may just place a shim, tie wrap, between linkage and idle adjuster screw to increase idel when starting cold. The engine is fuel injected, hard to flood it. May need to check, replace the TPS sensor on the throttle body. These can fail just by thinking about them. After I get home, I can post some pictures, if that would help. Call Kevin at Comprent motor sports or Mark at Robinson Motor Sports. Peter

[mikey]

please confirm.. you said "car wouldn't turn over" did you mean that or did you mean motor spins but wouldn't fire? If the motor literally wouldn't spin, then you have other issues..

Concur on calling either Kevin or Mick.

[SStadel]

Peter Is correct in his post. The other important item is a fully charged battery and jumper battery. These things like to spin over fast before starting.

[BLS]

If the "pop" comes at the end (when you release the starter button), you may have a low battery. In that case the starter will turn dropping the voltage too low for the ignition, then when you release the starter the voltage goes up and it "almost" starts.

I would check and disconnect the added electrical just in case...

[iamuwere]

Cycle power on and off four or five times before a cold start.

Always cold start with a tie wrap under the throttle idle screw to slightly open the throttle. No other gas. This will work.

Also be sure your ecu program is current. The original maps were hard to start.

[bsaltenberger]

First of all, thank you for jumping in to assist me, much appreciated.

So to address some of the questions and comments from the replies.
1. Fuel was purchased just a few weeks ago and put 3 gallons in the fuel cell.
2. Pop only happened once, it didn't happen again when we went after it a second time. To be honest, not sure if it was while we were pressing the button or right after we let go of it.
3. When I said turning over, i meant that the engine was spinning but that it wouldn't fire. Sorry for being confusing on that point, i'm horrible with terminology.
4. When you say "cycle the fuel pump to pressurize system", how do I do that?
5. I have disconnected the steering wheel and data logger completely from the car to ensure that's not putting any drain on the battery. But I will check the battery as well as hadn't thought about that aspect since it was fully charged when we started out. Guess i didn't think of that because nothing sounded like it wa laboring from a battery perspective like what would be apparent in other cars like my old Vee where you could hear the low battery issue like it was getting tired.
6. ECU was just flashed about 2 months ago by Hagermann in order to bring it up to date AND make it compatible with AiM data logger.
7. What does cycling the master power on and off 5-6 times do?

Thanks again for all the input. Given it was our first time starting it, and given we had no idea how to identify those sounds, sort of scared us into waiting and determining what exactly what occurring.

SOOO much to learn obviously as so much is different than what I had been dealing with on a Vee and really just looking forward to getting out on the track and racing this car.

[mikey]

you cycle the fuel pump by turning the ignition switch on and off 4-5 times (dash switch). The main power disconnect switch should remain on.

The "bell" sound can occur when letting go of the start button after an unsuccessful attempt to start. Mine does it occassionally.

I have the AIM formula wheel + EVO4 and it does not drain my battery at all. The master disconnect switch on the right side of the roll hoop prevents anything from draining it.

[jcorsico]

As many have said above, what you are experiencing is not unheard of.

The bell ringing sound is the starter motor hitting the flywheel. I'm not sure exactly what causes this noise to happen, but that is what you are hearing. If you tap the flywheel with a hammer, it will make the exact same noise. Don't worry about it unless it starts to happen a lot, in which case you probably want to inspect the gear teeth on the flywheel and starter motor to make sure they aren't damaged.

The pop you heard is likely the motor backfiring through the intake. Check your air filter to make sure you don't have a hole in it now. If you build up a lot of fuel in the intake, it will sometimes ignite, firing out of the intake and blowing a hole in the air filter.

Definitely use a jumper battery. The battery in the car will start the motor, but isn't large enough to handle extended cranking.

By cycling the ignition switch, you are basically getting the fuel pump to run, pressurizing the fuel system. The pump runs for about 2 seconds after you turn on the ignition. Thus, you need to cycle the ignition to get the pump to run for an extended period of time to prime the system. If you listen to the fuel pressure regulator carefully, you can usually hear it moving as you pressurize the lines (mine makes a little squeeking noise). Once they are pressurized, the regulator will stop making noise.

Make sure you have the ignition wires hooked up correctly. I once had the banks flip flopped (i.e., 1 and 3 were plugged into 2 and 4, and vice versa). Believe it or not, the engine will run with the banks completely reversed like this. But it runs like total crap, and only a few of the cylinders will fire.

Jon

[Drew 13]

May be a silly question but did you turn on the ignition? The toggle switch is down in the on position. Toggling up and down will cycle the fuel pump.

[Keith Carter]

Can you hear the fuel pump power up when you turn the ignition on?

[Bruce Allen FSCCA #82]

check for spark.
check fuel pressure.
check voltage while cranking.

good to go.

Even in New England cold weather my engine fires with throttle closed but then I immediately must give a little throttle to keep it from stalling. Alternatively I open the throttle with screw a few turns before starting but then idle may be too high when engine is warm