Test Days

[Chas Shaffer]

I have 2 test days, tomorrow and Wednesday at Summit Point. If interested, call.

F2000 only. Thanks.

Chas

703-919-9596

[KevinFirlein]

I need 3 spaces mate. I'll have to be in 2 places at once but what the he'll it's not supposed to be easy

[Purple Frog]

Hum... less than 14 hour notice. Hardly time for somebody like Kyle or HPTech in South Florida to participate.

Expect the "private test day rules" to be written with a sharper pen for 2014.

[Beartrax]

Hum... less than 14 hour notice. Hardly time for somebody like Kyle or HPTech in South Florida to participate.

Expect the "private test day rules" to be written with a sharper pen for 2014.

Loophole:

From the 2013 series rules -
"18. Private Test Sessions
Private testing is banned at any track the Series is racing at during 2010 until the scheduled
Series event has been held. The only exceptions are:
a. Series organized test opportunities,
b. SCCA scheduled Regional or National events and"

I don't see that the series ran Summit Point in 2010...
(Clearly it is a simple typo (sharper pen for 2014) and the spirit & intent is clear)

[Steve Bamford]

Loophole:

From the 2013 series rules -
"18. Private Test Sessions
Private testing is banned at any track the Series is racing at during 2010 until the scheduled
Series event has been held. The only exceptions are:
a. Series organized test opportunities,
b. SCCA scheduled Regional or National events and"

I don't see that the series ran Summit Point in 2010...
(Clearly it is a simple typo (sharper pen for 2014) and the spirit & intent is clear)

Um...don't forget about Rule 20, that might take care of that.

[NPalacioM3]

If you want to rewrite the rule, lets specify what a "private" and "public" test is. A "garage day" at Summit Point for instance, is not a public test where anyone can participate. Neither are "club days" at NJMP or VIR. It is known that people do these and they are NOT public as far as the track is concerned, or those that are members. They just allow their friends to join them and nobody asks any questions when they are called public. Nor are they promoted or advertised on here so that anyone can join, wonder why.

[Chas Shaffer]

Hum... less than 14 hour notice. Hardly time for somebody like Kyle or HPTech in South Florida to participate.

Expect the "private test day rules" to be written with a sharper pen for 2014.

Mike,

The testing rules could benefit from some clarity and proof reading.

According to the 2013 rule book private testing was banned prior to 2010 making testing completely legal in 2013. http://www.f2000championshipseries.c.../2013rules.pdf

If one were to assume you meant the 2013 schedule in your rules then anyone who tested before a Summit Point Regional or Major will have to be DQ since those test days are not SCCA scheduled, a requirement in your rules. They are held by Summit Point Raceway as are garage days, track days and the test days I participate in. I'll further note the rule says nothing about requiring tests to be available to all competitors.

With that said, I am under no obligation to announce or offer my testing schedule to anyone. I made the offer only after a last minute cancellation by some Indy Lights cars. It's incredibly arrogant to think or imply I waited to the last minute just to prevent participants of this series from participating.

As an outside observer, it seems unfair to allow testing at some tracks and not at others. Either make testing illegal at all tracks or preferably allow it at all tracks with some restrictions. Those in the DC area have to travel hundreds of miles to test at a "legal" track while others have multiple tracks close to home they can test at 365 days a year. It also prevents those of us who might consider running a one off race from participating in an event close to home.

I just had a flashback to 2007, I feel as though I'm arguing with Topeka again.

[Purple Frog]

Chaz,

Never said you did anything wrong. We saw the loophole in the rules, and we blew it by not catching it earlier. You or anybody else could drive right through it. Our bad.

The short notice comment was just a comment. (in retrospect, probably should have put a smiley on it). But, the rules never stated a lead time for announcements, so you were cool.

The way I see it, you did us a favor, because now we will properly write a better rule for 2014.

No harm, no foul.

[problemchild]

Its clearly not within the spirit of the no-testing rule, whether within the letter of the law, or not.
I would hope Series competitors would not be participating.

[NPalacioM3]

Its clearly not within the spirit of the no-testing rule, whether within the letter of the law, or not.
I would hope Series competitors would not be participating.

How about so called "garage days" and "club days" at tracks where the series runs? I would hope that you would also speak up and be upset that competitors are doing these as well? Or are we just going to keep on with the logic that these are public and look the other diretion when people run those? I can recall specifically hearing about a team running a "club day" at NJMP a week prior to the F2000 race last year. When I asked series officials about that, I was told those were "public". These also exist at VIR... Summit Point has these "garage days" which are for those that rent garage space at the track. They then invite their friends and somehow it became a rumor that these are public, which as far as the track is concerned, they are not.

So if we are going to jump into this testing discussion, lets air it all out.

[problemchild]

How about so called "garage days" and "club days" at tracks where the series runs? I would hope that you would also speak up and be upset that competitors are doing these as well? Or are we just going to keep on with the logic that these are public and look the other diretion when people run those? I can recall specifically hearing about a team running a "club day" at NJMP a week prior to the F2000 race last year. When I asked series officials about that, I was told those were "public". These also exist at VIR... Summit Point has these "garage days" which are for those that rent garage space at the track. They then invite their friends and somehow it became a rumor that these are public, which as far as the track is concerned, they are not.

So if we are going to jump into this testing discussion, lets air it all out.

I know nothing about any of that. Until Chas made his announcement, I had never seen any public invitations to test there. If Series competitors are openly testing at the track, then perhaps there should not be Series events there.

[Chas Shaffer]

Chaz,

Never said you did anything wrong. We saw the loophole in the rules, and we blew it by not catching it earlier. You or anybody else could drive right through it. Our bad.

The short notice comment was just a comment. (in retrospect, probably should have put a smiley on it). But, the rules never stated a lead time for announcements, so you were cool.

The way I see it, you did us a favor, because now we will properly write a better rule for 2014.

No harm, no foul.

Thanks Mike, Looking forward to seeing you guys at the end of the month.

ProblemChild,
There has been confusion over the testing rule for some time. There use to be a third bullet in section 18 about a test being legal if open to all competitors which was sort of a backdoor. It was removed for 2013.

The issue isn't that teams want an advantage over competitors by testing at a series track as was done in the past, its that they want to test at a track close to home. For instance some competitors in f1600 and F2000 are garaged at Summit and can test for free or very inexpensively but instead have to tow 200-300 miles to sort a car out. It's true that summit has two other tracks but they aren't really safe for formula cars. Going forward perhaps the series will allow teams to designate a home track or allow teams to pick one series track where they can test during the season to alleviate this issue.

[problemchild]

Going forward perhaps the series will allow teams to designate a home track or allow teams to pick one series track where they can test during the season to alleviate this issue.

Or just not hold Series events at Summit point.

[NPalacioM3]

Or just not hold Series events at Summit point.

If you want to go there, rule out NJMP and VIR then. That's probably not going to work... .02.

[problemchild]

If you want to go there, rule out NJMP and VIR then. That's probably not going to work... .02.

You either need to have a testing ban with teeth or no testing ban. If every series competitor does not get an invitation to a test day, then it should not be considered a public test day. There may be a nudge-nudge-wink-wink gray area with garage days, but Chas test days are private testing days. There is no gray area there. As far as I'm concerned, rule 20 would be in play if he came to the Series event there in a few weeks.

I just think it makes more sense to hold Series races at other tracks, than take away an economical testing facility that alot of people use. People in Florida or Toronto or Indy don't have the same opportunities.

[stonebridge20]

If I were king, there would be no testing on any track that FF/F2000 pro races on. The only exception would be that you could run on those tracks at any SCCA sanctioned event. ie: SCCA regional or national.

[NPalacioM3]

You either need to have a testing ban with teeth or no testing ban. If every series competitor does not get an invitation to a test day, then it should not be considered a public test day. There may be a nudge-nudge-wink-wink gray area with garage days, but Chas test days are private testing days. There is no gray area there. As far as I'm concerned, rule 20 would be in play if he came to the Series event there in a few weeks.

I just think it makes more sense to hold Series races at other tracks, than take away an economical testing facility that alot of people use. People in Florida or Toronto or Indy don't have the same opportunities.

I agree. Ban them all together or do not do anything and let there be open testing. There is no gray area with these club/garage days, they are not public. You cannot ban the testing days that Chas arranges for those that are not invited/allowed to these so called "public" club/garage days and leave everyone that is free to proceed as they have. That is not fair at all, we need to stop with this logic that these other test days are public and call it a gray area. Its not.

I also agree with not taking away cost effective testing facilities for people but if you replace SP with another track, it is likely there will be a competitor close by who can get access to test days that others will not be able to make.

[KevinFirlein]

Agnif,

that's what I thought the test rule meant when it was installed in 2009 after Andersen rented every series track in 2008. Dan always opened it up to everyone and his prices were fair considering the cost of renting some of the tracks. But to keep it from being abused, I could rent every track open it to everyone and charge $10k per car to test to insure no one came, the test rule was written for 2009. It didnt get interpreted the way I thought it was written. Last year a FA team did the same as Andersen and rented all the tracks. The rule is of course what ever the series wants it to be and they make the call on it.

Frankly at this point I say eliminate the rule all together because no matter how you write it there will be a loop hole. I am not a series driver and likely never will be so even if you ban testing at series track other then sanctioned racing events ( that was a rule in the old USF2000 in the late 90's early 2000 ) I can still drive a teams car, as I did then, and do the testing for the series driver. " Hey I am just testing for an upcoming regional/national event". Perfectly legal since you cant tell a series team they cant do business with anyone else. Good for me since I get paid more to drive then wrench but not what was really intended either.

There is no real way to impose a ban since its not like you can keep track of all the teams and where they might be going. This debate was started about an even at Summit Point but there wasn't any mention about a test that was done at the Glen by a well known team that yielded great results. No one would have known about it if a team member didnt post a picture on social media after the fact.

There was a rule in the Cooper series days that you could nominate a series track as your ' home' track and test there w/o penalty. That came about because teams had shops at a particular track and part of the deal was access to the track, just like Summit has and VIR has.

If a rule cant be policed by anything other then good will then the rule should go away.

[Modo]

And Rob Nicholas just bettered the lap record there at a regional, low ten's which is an old flat bottom pro FA time from the 70's, nifty!!!! .........

make that mid 10's .6 qualified in low 10's