Mid-size SUV

[wake74]

I'm shopping for a used mid-size SUV that can tow at least 5,000 lbs. It will be a daily driver with only very occasional towing duties. I'm looking at used, less than $15k, with hopefully 60-80k miles. Needs to comfortably seat four adults (third row not a requirement), be well equipped (leather) and be respectable to take clients to lunch, ie, no trucks. Currently driving a 2008 Explorer, but it's already getting the rattles.

What I'm considering:

- VW Touareg (first choice, but reports of extreme maintenance costs are concerning)
- Lincoln Aviator or Navigator (a fancy Explorer / Expedition, so concerned with build quality, high mileage rattles, etc.)
- BMW X5 (I can't picture this being cheap to maintain)
- Toyota Landcruiser (hard to find in this price range with less than 150k miles)
- Toyota Sequoia (not too many sold, so not too many in the used market, most less than $15 have 100k+ miles)
- Land Rover / Range Rover (maintenance costs?)

Your thoughts, particularly around maintenance costs?

Thanks!

Glenn

[cbruce644]

Check out the 2009-2010 touareg 3.0 TDI for better reliability than the older ones. Both the gas & TDI have the same 7700lb towing but the TDI has the torque you may need. Get the air suspension if you can find it. Go to http://www.myturbodiesel.com/ for more answers. There's a pic of my rig w/trailer in the 2010 buying guide.

Bruce
FM 92

[DanW]

The Sequoia is a nice SUV, great ride and reliability, but they are thirsty. I have a 2003 Tundra extra cab, good friend with a 2005 double cab, neighbor with a 2006 Sequoia.

If you take it really easy on speed, keeping the tach at 2200 rpm or below (67mph) you may get 18-19 mpg, otherwise 14-16 is all you can hope for.

A Chevy Tahoe will get 20+ on the highway.

Regards,
Dan

[racerdad2]

The high end vehicles are designed to be sold to high end buyers who trade up every year or two or three. Therefore, their long term reliability is not built in. A Chevy Taho would work well. They're cheap & the $$$ saved on purchase will more than offset the mileage & maintenance. You could consider a shortbed crew cab truck ? Land Rivers cheap because maintenance high... IMHO. The VW TDI is a good SUV. Use a load leveling hitch on anything...

[Roux]

I have been using an X5 4.4i and if I took it to the dealer for repairs I would be struggling to find funds for racing. i do all my own repairs, but I am finally giving up with 170K miles and 12 year old. It is a great daily driver with the fun factor of BMW brakes, handling, quiet cabin, great stereo and gadgets, no rattles or sqeaks. It tows very well up to the 6000lb limit. If you decide to look at the X5 you should do your research on Xoutpost.com. the X6 is also something you could consider since it has the 6000lb towing capablity. There are many threads on Xoutpost.com dealing with which model has which problems. I bought mine on an Ebay auction for $15.6K when KBB had it rated as a $21K verhicle (years ago) so I feel like I did OK.

I have heard only horrible stuff about the first years of the VW. I spoke to a friend at work last week about his and he still has all of the warning lights lit at all times. So no confirmation that you have ABS, Airbags, Traction control etc. At least on my X5 the only warning light has to do with the air suspension not being active. everything else works fine.

My next tow vehicle will be a Ford Cargo Van with sleeping quarters in the back and plenty of towing capability. It will of course just be used on race weekends, since it is such a compromise

Cheers

Steve

[wake74]

Thanks to those who have replied so far with thoughts / suggestions.

Bruce - I'd have to at least double my budget to get into an 09 TDI Touareg.

Steve - Most of the VWs I've seen in my price range with reasonable mileage are the 2004 models so that is good to know.

I don't want to end up with a premium SUV (BMW, Rover, etc.) if it's going to cost $2k+ a year to maintain.

[roun0016]

I think you might find yourself in a bit of a difficult spot. A 5k towing capacity basically takes you out of any V6 category, which means you're going to end up with a V8/big vehicle. The "mid size" or x-over SUV's generally cap out at 3,500 from everything I've seen.

I've found myself in this same spot. I've got a light trailer set up for my FC, and would love a non-full size vehicle to tow it. Problem is, anything you get that can pull 5k is going to suck gas, unless there is a diesel option out there that I'm unaware of. That T-reg option sounds interesting as heck. I just got back from a week in Europe and 90% of the cars over there are turbo diesels, and the tourque is amazing.

I swear by my Ford Edge, and it tows my old MasterCraft 205 (a full 3,500lbs) like a dream, but it's not pulling my race rig. Before it I had a Ford Explorer with the V8 option (5.0L back in the day - '97) and it went forever, but it only got 13-15 mpg, so you might as well be driving an F-150 at that point.

I've been interested to check out the Nissan pick ups. Seems like they have some interesting 'in betweens". Dodge has also offfered the V8 in the Dakota, as well as Toyota in the Tacoma.

My choice? Either go "minimist" and get an open trailer rig you can swing around at 3,500lbs, or bite the bullet and get a 4-5yr old F-150. Love my Ford Edge if you go the first route. Just my 2 cents.

[Purple Frog]

Glenn,
You have basically three criteria:
1. Relatively inexpensive. (~$15K)
2. Nice enough to haul clients to lunch.
3. Will tow 5000 lbs.

Unfortunately, in the real world you can only get two of those three things. You get to pick which two.

[Will Velkoff]

Stay awzy from the German crap...after working for my fathers repair shop for 8 years growing up the BMW trucks and Land and Range Rovers were always problematic and very expensive to fix. Would also stay away ffom any VW or Audi for the same reasons. I would never recommend anyone to buy those vehicles.

I just purchased a 2004 Tahoe Z71 for 10k, 72k miles, beautiful truck, and will run forever. It is loaded too. The 5.3 Vortec motor is very good. Have towed 5000lbs in Tahoes and Suburbans before and they do a great job. With my FF and lightweight aluminum open trailer you barely feel like you are pulling anything.

Edit: For 5000 lb ballpark, a Suburban would do you better since its got a longer wheelbase. I noticed a good differene when towing that weight with a zTahoe and Suburban. For my lightweight load, a Tahoe is plenty good

[Will Velkoff]

Glenn,
You have basically three criteria:
1. Relatively inexpensive. (~$15K)
2. Nice enough to haul clients to lunch.
3. Will tow 5000 lbs.

Unfortunately, in the real world you can only get two of those three things. You get to pick which two.

I would say for 10k I got all 3

[JohnPaul]

A diesel Ford Excursion. 100x better than anything else mentioned and in your price range. It's bigger than "midsized" but you'll have a real luxurious towing machine.

edit: actually $15k may be too low for diesel (v10 gas would work). Diesels are more in the low $20k range

[Amon]

Try a 05-08' Grand Cherokee with a 5.7L Hemi and you'll stay below $15k and
be able to tow up to 6500-7000 lbs. with the towing package.

Mark

[wake74]

Mike's life lesson of the day "Unfortunately, in the real world you can only get two of those three things. You get to pick which two."

My current trailer (14') comes in around 4,000 lbs loaded. I've been towing it with a V6 Explorer rated at 5,500 lbs. I can't imagine towing 5,500 lbs with it. It's fine on the interstate, but worthless in any type of hill, not to mention, I don't think it's been great on the transmission.

My desire's to stay mid-size, be able to tow 4,000 (comfortably), may not be realistic.

We've never owned a domestic vehicle (my Explorer is technical a company car), but maybe I'll have to go domestic to stay in my price range and hope that my perception of reliability and build quality (rattles) is not well founded.

[Ralph Z.]

I'm dealing with the same issue right now. I have a 2001 GMC Yukon XL that will tow up to 9,600 LBS. It does a good job of pulling my 5,000 LB rig. But, the car now has 170,000 miles on it and I, too, need something suitable for clients.

My plan is this...Sell my 20' Haulmark trailer and replace it with a 16' aluminum trailer. Yeah, I know, the aluminum trailers are not cheap but it will save me just over 1,000 LBS. Then, with some other weight reductions planned on the inside of the trailer, I expect to haul about 3,800 LBS.

So, that opens up a number of possibilities. On my list is the X5 and the T-reg. The X5 will tow 6,000 LBS and the T-reg claims 7,700 LBS but I would never push either of these to the limit.

Anyone looking for a nice Yukon XL that has been well cared for? Asking $5,800.

Ralph

[wannabe]

Been there got the t-shirt. I used a ford excursion diesel for 2 years of hauling my 20 ft at about 6000lbs. I sold my heavy trailer, bought a lighter one and a Nissan Armada. Gas mileage is about 12 under tow, gasoline is cheaper than diesel and it pulls like hell. I have a friend that is pulling a 20 with a ford expedition triton engine. I think you could get by pretty good with a ford expedition. Its heavy enough to control a 24ft. loaded. Just put some stabalizer bars and a sway bar on it and your good. the excusion was just too heavy. The Armada has been bulletproof...it has a tow package and self leveling suspension.

[TimH]

I met all three criteria a couple of years ago with a 2006 GMC Envoy. Straight-6 has enough torque to get the job done up to about 65 MPH but I get nervous about the trailer tires above that. The Chevy version is the Trailblazer, but I believe most of those were sold with the V8.

[wake74]

Nissan Armada. I missed that on my list for some reason. Thanks for the suggestion, it's an interesting option worth digging into.

[Daryl DeArman]

Depends on how occasional the occasional tow would be and what you are towing that weighs 5K.

What's your desired car-like/truck-like ratio?

Previous generation Honda Pilot. My wife has an '06 EX-L. They are rated to tow 3500/5000(boat).

You may be hard pressed to find one that low mileage in your price range though.
ON EDIT MAYBE NOT:

http://www.cars.com/go/search/detail...184&aff=usnews

[wake74]

Daryl - Likely towing use is 5-6 times per year. Not exactly frequent.

Definitely would prefer more car feel than truck feel, as my wife will likely drive it at times.

The Honda Pilot was actually the first thing I researched to find out it's towing capacity. We have had a 10 year old CRV since new, and it's been extremely reliable and very low on maintenance / repairs. I noticed it had that dual capacity, not really sure why the Pilot cares what it is towing, maybe it's the difference in frontal area between a boat and enclosed trailer.

[Mark_Silverberg]

Some vehicles have a frontal area limit as well as a weight limit. You have to look very carefully in the owners manual for the specification. Sometimes it is stated as the frontal area above the vehicle which is doing the towing. Honda probably simplified things by just specifying boat.


I have towed my 7x16 V-nose trailer (about 4500 to 5000 loaded depending upon contents) with the following vehicle

2001 Explorer Sport Trac V6
200? Exlorer V6
2003 Explorer V8
2003 F150 4.6L (super cab short bed)
2002 Expedition (last year of first body style)
2011 Pathfinder V6
2012 Armada

They all did a reasonable job - some better than others. I would have to say that any vehicle with load leveling rear suspension seems much more confident in towing.

Hills are not an issue where I live so can not provide a perspective on that.

If I was looking for something to buy used I would probably look for the biggest solid rear axle SUV I could find.

[Top]

See if you can find a Chevy or GMC Suburban with Quarasteer. Quarasteer vehicles towed unbelievable well and when not towing were great to drive and easy to park. The four wheel steering made them seem like a much smaller vehicle. Pulling my 20' trailer I really didn't even need to make turns much if any wider than without the trailer.

My wife and I reall miss the one we had. Unfortunately a 28' goose at up to 12k pounds meant we needed a bigger truck.

[robertkroll]

I'm shopping for a used mid-size SUV that can tow at least 5,000 lbs. It will be a daily driver with only very occasional towing duties. I'm looking at used, less than $15k, with hopefully 60-80k miles. Needs to comfortably seat four adults (third row not a requirement), be well equipped (leather) and be respectable to take clients to lunch, ie, no trucks. Currently driving a 2008 Explorer, but it's already getting the rattles.

What I'm considering:

- VW Touareg (first choice, but reports of extreme maintenance costs are concerning)
- Lincoln Aviator or Navigator (a fancy Explorer / Expedition, so concerned with build quality, high mileage rattles, etc.)
- BMW X5 (I can't picture this being cheap to maintain)
- Toyota Landcruiser (hard to find in this price range with less than 150k miles)
- Toyota Sequoia (not too many sold, so not too many in the used market, most less than $15 have 100k+ miles)
- Land Rover / Range Rover (maintenance costs?)

Your thoughts, particularly around maintenance costs?

Thanks!

Glenn

Glenn,
I have owned the following and I can offer the following advice:

2001 Nissan Pathfinder - Great SUV, but I believe the towing capacity is slightly more than a red rider wagon.

2003 Sequoia SR5 - Unbelieveable build quality. Fair to moderate on fuel. Reasonable insurance costs. Plenty of room and superior build quality. Very inexpensive to keep on the road (Brakes, tires, consumables). This car was so good that I just purchased a 2013. Sold it with 97,000 miles.

2005 Chevrolet Tahoe - Nowhere as well built as the Toyota. Slightly better on fuel though. For towing, it didn't have the same control as the Sequoia. Slight issues with 4wd system, consumables were inexpensive and available. Car seemed to eat front tires though, couldn't seem to get the alignment right. Overall comfort and image were fair to good, I toted clients around from time to time. Sold it with about 70,000 miles on it.

2006 Ford F-250 Crew 5.4Litre V-8 - Terrible on gas, surprisingly comfortable, strong towing capacity. I drove it back and forth between Williamsburg, VA and Long Island, NY about 25 times with and without passengers. Nobody ever complained of discomfort. It never broke down and I sold it with over 100k miles.

2011 Dodge 1500 Crew 5.7L Hemi - Incredibly comfortable, superior ride quality. This vehicle actually pulled better than the ford. Fuel mileage averaged between 14.6 and 16. Loved the truck and Hurricane Sandy swallowed it up.

If I were in your position, I would hunt down the Sequoia. It was the BEST vehicle I ever owned. There are 13 available for under $15k within 100 miles of Williamsburg, VA:

http://www.cars.com/for-sale/used/to...02&prcId=28578

There are 35 Tahoe's in your area as well:

http://www.cars.com/for-sale/searchr...RM&enableSeo=1

Best of luck car hunting...
-BoB

[Daryl DeArman]

Daryl - Likely towing use is 5-6 times per year. Not exactly frequent.

Definitely would prefer more car feel than truck feel, as my wife will likely drive it at times.

The Honda Pilot was actually the first thing I researched to find out it's towing capacity. We have had a 10 year old CRV since new, and it's been extremely reliable and very low on maintenance / repairs. I noticed it had that dual capacity, not really sure why the Pilot cares what it is towing, maybe it's the difference in frontal area between a boat and enclosed trailer.

Have you considered sticking with the Honda CRV and just buying a $2-3K 3/4 ton mid 90's truck/Suburban for the 5-6 towing trips a year? Your wife will be happier when it isn't towing and you'll be happier when you are.

[FV07]

Glenn,
I also have a Tdi Touraeg which has been great with the exception of some recent EGR cooler issues covered under warranty (seems to be a known problem with the Tdi's). Gonna be hard to find one in your price range. One other suggestion I looked at is a Pathfinder with a V8. Might not be many around but they were made this way and have higher towing limits and of course worse mpg than the V6.

Jim

[Feffman]

Try a 05-08' Grand Cherokee with a 5.7L Hemi and you'll stay below $15k and
be able to tow up to 6500-7000 lbs. with the towing package.

Mark

Did this back in 2005 and it's been great. Better yet if you can find the 2006-2008 Jeep Grand Cherokee with the V6 turbo diesel. Tough to find.

Another option, that I'm now doing (took the Jeep out of tow service at wife's request) is to set up a commercial account with Entreprise Commercial Truck and rent a new diesel Ford F250, GM or Dodge 2500. No maintenance, no sales or personal property tax, no licensing fee, no worry about where to park another vehicle and of course they tow like mad.

Feff

[DanW]

Glenn,
I have owned the following and I can offer the following advice:

2003 Sequoia SR5 - Unbelieveable build quality. Fair to moderate on fuel. Reasonable insurance costs. Plenty of room and superior build quality. Very inexpensive to keep on the road (Brakes, tires, consumables). This car was so good that I just purchased a 2013. Sold it with 97,000 miles.

Best of luck car hunting...
-BoB

If you buy a Sequoia with around 90K miles or more, check if it has had the timing belt and transmission services done. The timing belt, including water pump, serpentine, seals, and idlers is about $700-800. If not, offer accordingly.

They handle well for a truck based SUV, the feel is like a Camry.

Regards,
Dan

[Amon]

Feff:

You're correct about the Grand Cherokee Diesels, but as you said they're rare
and $5-7k more expensive, which places them above his $15k limit. Good idea
nonetheless!


Mark

[Tom Valet]

Havent seen this mentioned but if it was I missed it. if your towing limit is really 5,000 lbs, then you could look at the V8 version of the Toyota 4Runner. Most came with V6s but V8s are common enough. The Limited model would have everything you listed including leather, you can find them for under $15,000 with under 100,000 miles, they are reliable as hell and get decent mileage (much better than the Landcruiser or Sequoia. We have one in our family, 10 years old, over 100,000 miles, never seen a day in the shop. And you would not be embarrassed to drive your clients in one, they are good looking trucks.

[turnbaugh]

Audi Q7 diesel works great for a 20' v-nose with a Wolf in it

Probably 5000 lbs total. Towing mileage is almost double the Tahoe. Great highway car without the trailer. 22 around town. 27-28 highway.

[Tom Valet]

Audi Q7 diesel works great for a 20' v-nose with a Wolf in it

Probably 5000 lbs total. Towing mileage is almost double the Tahoe. Great highway car without the trailer. 22 around town. 27-28 highway.

Didn't know you could find a Q7 diesel for under $15,000, that's a great deal.

[AJWALKER]

I have towed over ten years with a 2001 Dakota Quad Cab with the 4.7 v8 and factory tow package. It is rated for 5000lbs. I tow a 14ft aluminum v-nose tandem with a FF. No room for golf carts but it tows easy. The back seats are good for adults but the bed is only 6 ft long. They should be well below your price limit.

ajw

[chrisw52]

Didn't know you could find a Q7 diesel for under $15,000, that's a great deal.

you can find them... but they are not that great a deal due to the high millage. I will never buy another used high millage audi/vw/porsche ever again.

[Amon]

AJ;

I had a 2003' Durango with the same motor (4.7L) and it struggled to pull my 16' trailer on anything other than flat terrain. I switch to a 07' Hemi powered Grand Cherokee and have no problem towing anywhere. The bigger cubes (5.7L), 100+ more horsepower and large amounts of torque really helped!

Mark

[AJWALKER]

Amon, I agree the Dakota with the 4.7 is not a powerhouse for towing but it has never failed to get me racing for over ten years. Fully loaded for a long weekend at the Glen my trailer weighs in at 3900lbs and makes all the long hills at speed limit out of overdrive. My recommendation was based on the comment "It will be a daily driver with only very occasional towing duties" by the thread poster. The less $$ spent on a tow vehicle, within reason, the more is available for racing.

ajw

[tstiles]

My 2011 V6 Toyota 4 Runner is rated at 5,000# ... I'm towing a miata / open trailex / tires / tools est. @ 3800# ... I've seen towing MPG as good as 17 and low of 13 ... Maintenance ? 42,000 miles and nothing but fluids

If you live in the flatlands , it might be a good option ... If your in the hills you might want to pass

[wake74]

Just wanted to say thanks for all the valuable opinions. This will only occasionally get used as a tow vehicle. Hard to tell how often, but it's nice to have the capability if you need it.

I ruled out the Audi Q7, just because there isn't anything for sale nearby, and even if I expand my search, $20k is the starting point for anything with less than 100k miles.

Ruled out the Touareg (even though I love the look), because in that range, I can only find 2004 models, which apparently have first model year issues. Ruling out the Rover, X5, etc. due to maintenance costs.

Most likely candidates at this time: 4Runner, Sequoia, Armada with the Sequoia being on the top of the list.

[wake74]

Just wanted to close-out the thread, and thank everyone for all the advice. After much research, I decided on either a V8 4Runner or a Sequoia. After driving and looking at several versions of both, I settled on a Sequoia this morning, and is now parked in the drive-way. Higher miles than I would have liked, but not too bad for a Toyota. 1 non-smoking owner, full maintenance history, very clean. Loaded Limited Edition (Nav, DVD, wireless head-sets, captain chairs in second row, full tow package, etc). Hopefully, it will last another 75-100k miles.

[racerdad2]

Very nice !

[Top]

It looks great. Nice choice.